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Can most users even tell there is a performance hit or are we all just responding irrationally to the sensationalism surrounding this?
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Jan 13, 2018 19:38
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Mazz posted:My biggest confusion is what risk they really pose to an individual user, and nothing really makes that clear. I get the JavaScript thing but doesn’t that require you to be loading sensitive information into the CPU caches with that malicious code actually running? Doesn’t everything else require access to the local machine? I understand the fear/terror for cloud based systems and VMs, but I’m not getting why I should freak out and patch my 3570k when all I do is play video games and read bad forums like this 99% of the time. If I’m doing bank/finance/important poo poo, I generally have nothing open on my machine but that, I’m absolutely not a person with 85 browser tabs open. Am I missing something here? You've got most of it, but the last little bit could hurt you. The really big risk is for companies that make money by renting out VMs and running arbitrary code that other people give to them: Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Heroku, Jimbo's Shared Hosting, whatever. This vulnerability, by itself, only happens when you take in random code and run it. But, you should still patch, even if you're not a cloud provider. Malware typically doesn't spread by directly hitting a "remote code execution with full kernel privileges" vulnerability over the network - those are exceptionally rare these days. Instead, it goes step by step. Bad guy submits malicious code to an ad network, which runs in an unprivileged sandbox when your browser loads it. It uses an exploit against your browser or plugin to break out of that sandbox and runs as a local ordinary user. Then, it escalates from ordinary user to root/admin with an exploit (or, more likely, a series of exploits that each break some kind of mitigation). At that point it's not hard to get full kernel access in a desktop system. Now, that bad ad means you've got a persistent rootkit hanging around. The good news is that, if you can disrupt that chain, the attack won't succeed. People are going to use these techniques to come up with all kinds of interesting practical exploits. By patching, you can mitigate that risk. You should absolutely patch.
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Jan 13, 2018 19:45
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VulgarandStupid posted:Can most users even tell there is a performance hit or are we all just responding irrationally to the sensationalism surrounding this? Most people can't personally notice a difference in their lives regardless of scandal (technology or otherwise) that happens, and yet we make tremendous deals out of those, too.
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Jan 13, 2018 19:50
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I intentionally don't run benchmarks because when I did it just lead to watching numbers and never actually using my hardware. I'll still use stability tests to overclock, but whatever it gets to I assume is fine.
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Jan 13, 2018 20:16
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VulgarandStupid posted:Can most users even tell there is a performance hit or are we all just responding irrationally to the sensationalism surrounding this? The benchmarks for kaby lake were basically 0 change, with about as many applications running faster than slower, basically showing that the change isn't more than the margin of error. The guy wanting to throw away his 7700k over this shows why most people have no idea what they are talking about.
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Jan 13, 2018 21:03
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DrDork posted:The before-and-after benchmarks of games and normal office applications have been noted, though, as having pretty minimal impact unless your CPU is hilariously old. So, yeah, people complaining bitterly about losing 1-3% or whatever aren't being taken particularly seriously. Even Intels PR benchmarks show impact much more severe than 1-3%: https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2018/01/Blog-Benchmark-Table.pdf And check out the Witcher 3, tested by DigitalFoundry: Pretty severe framerate impact in some complex scenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC1WuKdPVCQ 
Fame Douglas fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 21:28
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The only responsible-acting party seems to be Microsoft. As a home user, I would install whatever they distribute via Windows Update and ignore the rest.
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Jan 13, 2018 21:57
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https://blog.appoptics.com/visualizing-meltdown-aws/ AWS is showing 25% CPU utilization increases after this. And memcached gets really hammered
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Jan 13, 2018 23:05
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PerrineClostermann posted:I just realized my primary computer has turned 7 years old. This poor 2600k... I'm still running an old 2500K@4.2 as my primary computer and apparently it's now the worst time to build or buy a new system.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:27
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Azhais posted:https://blog.appoptics.com/visualizing-meltdown-aws/ So, less than expected.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:36
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spasticColon posted:and apparently it's now the worst time to build or buy a new system. Ryzen+ in April.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:36
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Ryzen+ in April. Won't change the fact that GPU prices are up 100% from MSRP. 1070s are no poo poo selling for $1000 new. People are lining up at B&M stores *daily* asking about new GPU stocks, too. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 23:47
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Death to cryptominers.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:48
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Ryzen+ in April. Same as above posts but also DDR4 prices are sad for people running Broadwell/Excavator and earlier.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:51
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Won't change the fact that GPU prices are up 100% from MSRP. 1070s are no poo poo selling for $1000 new. I'm so glad I got my 1070 in August 2016 before the buttcoin craze. RAM prices are still loving crazy right now which is why I shied away from building a i5-8400 system. spasticColon fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jan 14, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 23:55
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Same as above posts but also DDR4 prices are sad for people running Broadwell/Excavator and earlier. I paid 80 dollars in 2015 for 16GB of 2666-14 DDR4 because those surely were early adopter costs and in 2 years I'll be able to get twice as much for half the price...
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Jan 14, 2018 00:05
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Won't change the fact that GPU prices are up 100% from MSRP. 1070s are no poo poo selling for $1000 new. Good lord, I'm so tempted to flip my 1080 that I paid $400 for last year, but I'd just have to get an overpriced replacement.
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Jan 14, 2018 00:15
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Go for the vanilla 1080. Great for games, memory performance poo poo for crypto mining.
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Jan 14, 2018 00:15
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Ryzen+ in April. Ryzen+ will probably still be affected by the Spectre vulnerability and RAM prices will still be to the loving moon.
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Jan 14, 2018 00:15
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Like is GPU mining actually profitable now?
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Jan 14, 2018 00:16
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movax posted:Go for the vanilla 1080. Great for games, memory performance poo poo for crypto mining. Even that's not a viable option anymore. The 1080 mines fine, it just doesn't mine as efficiently as a 1070 - but if you can't *get* a 1070, the lunatics will buy 1080s too.
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Jan 14, 2018 00:17
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ohgodwhat posted:Like is GPU mining actually profitable now? 300 dollars from a 1080 and a 980. If I bought them for mining that's a 1000 dollar loss. I get modern GPUs anyways though because I want to run games and not have to think about it. It's profitable in contrast to the electricity cost. In contrast to buying hardware it makes no sense, you're betting *coins will keep going up, if you really believed that you should just buy coins and save the power costs.
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Jan 14, 2018 00:26
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ohgodwhat posted:Like is GPU mining actually profitable now? A 1080Ti makes $10-$15/day right now, so....
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Jan 14, 2018 00:43
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cinci zoo sniper posted:So, less than expected. Now for common desktop/gaming use its looking to be a 3-5% performance hit for the fixes for many Intel chips depending on OS and which core you have. Some have said the performance hit is quite noticeable with Windows 7 after patching and yeah that is anecdotal and on a old OS now but many still use it and given the current issues people are having with the patches its not hard to believe. A 3-5% avg. performance hit isn't terrible for desktop users, certainly much better than what happened with AMD when they had to fix their TLB bug on early Bulldozer chips (IIRC that was a 5-20% performance hit) which they got rightly shat on for by everyone, but also isn't good or a "nothing-burger" either. spasticColon posted:Ryzen+ will probably still be affected by the Spectre vulnerability and RAM prices will still be to the loving moon. But yeah DRAM prices probably won't drop until super late 2018, or more realistically, well into 2019 when I believe more capacity is supposed to be coming on line. I dunno maybe we'll get lucky and the Chinese really will crack down on some of the DRAM guys but that is looking less likely now I believe.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:36
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:But close enough to the speculated worst case (ie. 30% performance hit) to make the "its a nothing-burger" talk look like complete nonsense too. Its also worse than the performance hit from the TLB bug fix on AMD's early Bulldozer CPU's which got them crapped on thoroughly by everyone in comparison. Could it be that "its a nothing-burger" talk does clearly not concern itself with server workloads in the slightest capacity, and is positioned solely with respect to consumer workloads running on relatively modern Intel CPUs? 
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Jan 14, 2018 01:49
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Could it be that "its a nothing-burger" talk does clearly not concern itself with server workloads in the slightest capacity, and is positioned solely with respect to consumer workloads running on relatively modern Intel CPUs? Nothing impacts average consumer workloads because your average consumers just uses a PC to chat on Facebook and jerk it to porn and the CPU won't be taxed doing either.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:54
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Xae posted:Nothing impacts average consumer workloads because your average consumers just uses a PC to chat on Facebook and jerk it to porn and the CPU won't be taxed doing either. But what if the servers hosting that porn are slowed and they have to wait for things to load? Boners could be deflating as things buffer!
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Jan 14, 2018 01:57
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Is anyone else with an NVME drive getting around 50% drop in 4k reads after installing the meltdown patch? I haven't installed the Samsung driver yet, I'll test again after that, but I've been putting it off. If that's just how it is I won't bother.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:03
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Ancillary Character posted:But what if the servers hosting that porn are slowed and they have to wait for things to load? Boners could be deflating as things buffer! Yeah, the impact the nothing burger guys are going to see will be their pubg servers lagging
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Jan 14, 2018 02:15
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Could it be that "its a nothing-burger" talk does clearly not concern itself with server workloads in the slightest capacity, and is positioned solely with respect to consumer workloads running on relatively modern Intel CPUs?
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Jan 14, 2018 02:17
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Won't change the fact that GPU prices are up 100% from MSRP. 1070s are no poo poo selling for $1000 new. PC gamers are screwed (though they could buy a PS4 and a lot of games for the price of high end GPUs right now) but if you can get by on integrated graphics, Ryzen APU will hopefully push some Intel models to compete. If you want a media box or an office machine, you're fine.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:28
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People will probably mine with the Ryzen APU but at least they're limited to one per mobo lol.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:36
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Is anyone else with an NVME drive getting around 50% drop in 4k reads after installing the meltdown patch? Did you also update the SSD firmware recently? 960s have an issue with the current firmware losing like half their performance in sustained loads. It seems a lot like the controller is overheating and forcing the drive to throttle.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:37
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Xae posted:Nothing impacts average consumer workloads because your average consumers just uses a PC to chat on Facebook and jerk it to porn and the CPU won't be taxed doing either. That is entirely wrong, Facebook is loaded up with lovely ads and js that eats all your cores and so are porn sites.
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Jan 14, 2018 03:50
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I dunno about you guys but I'm running my 1080 Ti to mine crap because I'm using it to heat up my house instead of running my heater because when my heater runs, I have 0% chance of making any money from the heat produced. That and I've been too busy dealing with Meltdown and Spectre crap at work (lots of AWS instances to patch for a software platform that is super-duper stateful now, fun!) that I haven't been able to do anything fun with my computers at home for the past few weeks.
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Jan 14, 2018 07:48
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Wirth1000 posted:Death to cryptominers.
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Jan 14, 2018 10:47
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Craptacular! posted:PC gamers are screwed
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Jan 14, 2018 11:05
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Is there any reason to think the management engine will be optional, via bios setting, in newer chips?
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Jan 14, 2018 11:11
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JazzmasterCurious posted:The Witcher 3 example above showed, what, 108 fps in ultra with the BIOS and Windows patched, down from 124. I don't think I could see the difference IRL. But I'm not a gaming fanatic either, whatever floats your boat. I could live with it. He's talking about ridiculous RAM and GPU prices right now.
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Jan 14, 2018 11:15
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Oh poo poo yeah. Haven't had my morning coffee.
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Jan 14, 2018 11:23
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