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dead comedy forums posted:I can give you one example: how about killing a significant chunk of a country's sovereign debt? Doesn't Haiti still have to pay a shitload of money to France that was basically odious debt to purposely gently caress them up? Apparently what they already paid amounts to billions of euros when adjusted for inflation, which is insane given Haiti's current condition. We'll never know where Haiti would be had it not been saddled with this "debt".
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Dec 28, 2017 14:57
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again, I will walk it through this time. Have you heard about odious debt?
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nerdz posted:Doesn't Haiti still have to pay a shitload of money to France that was basically odious debt to purposely gently caress them up? Apparently what they already paid amounts to billions of euros when adjusted for inflation, which is insane given Haiti's current condition. We'll never know where Haiti would be had it not been saddled with this "debt". It was eventually pardoned... in 2010
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Dec 28, 2017 15:26
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And to make it even more hosed up the debt was reperations. To France, for its lost "property" when it became independent and was no longer a slave colony.
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Dec 28, 2017 18:32
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On top of that bullshit, there were also rival states within Haiti at various times who racked up huge debts of their own and other countries would demand the unified successors take on responsibility, so that further delayed any attempts to get out from under the existing immediate-post-colonial debt.
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Dec 29, 2017 05:59
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Fujimori, like Pinochet, deserved to live the rest of his life in jail and to die there.
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Dec 29, 2017 11:32
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nerdz posted:Doesn't Haiti still have to pay a shitload of money to France that was basically odious debt to purposely gently caress them up? Communist Zombie posted:And to make it even more hosed up the debt was reperations. To France, for its lost "property" when it became independent and was no longer a slave colony. Haiti is a very special case because besides economics there was the monumental event that formerly enslaved black revolutionaries beat the crap out of the French not once, not twice but three times, so everybody in Europe told them to die in a fire because admitting that an Afro-Caribbean country was an equal would be utterly insane and that of course hosed Haiti up because almost nobody would trade with them: they sent a delegation to the US in order to try getting American support and while many thought it was a proper thing to do and help a fellow rising nation in the Americas, it also represented the worst nightmare of slave power, so ofc they wouldn't help them long story short, racism goes a long way into economics too an awesome aside: however the Haitians were and are metal as gently caress and decided "you know what lets make our own trade partners" and decided to talk to a guy named Bolívar and provide him artillery and highly experienced soldiers to drill him an army in exchange for ending slavery once the viceroyalties got liberated (the fucker did not do so)
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Dec 29, 2017 14:47
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The World Bank deliberately changed its competitiveness rankings to pull Chile's rank down during Bachelet's administrations: https://twitter.com/DFinanciero/status/952178966969966593
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Jan 13, 2018 22:41
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nerdz posted:Doesn't Haiti still have to pay a shitload of money to France that was basically odious debt to purposely gently caress them up? Apparently what they already paid amounts to billions of euros when adjusted for inflation, which is insane given Haiti's current condition. We'll never know where Haiti would be had it not been saddled with this "debt". Not that the debt wasn't insanely unjust, but Haiti and the DR were actually just as poor as each other until about 1970 https://twitter.com/InquisitiveMarg/status/951818221878939654
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Jan 13, 2018 23:37
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Badger of Basra posted:The World Bank deliberately changed its competitiveness rankings to pull Chile's rank down during Bachelet's administrations: wow who would say foreign institutions can not be counted on to be politically neutral at all times inb4 wateroverfire or Non Serviam say "it wasn't foul play, it was actually true because socialism bad"
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Jan 14, 2018 02:21
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bagual posted:wow who would say foreign institutions can not be counted on to be politically neutral at all times Step 1: 4% corporate tax rate hike Step 2: Gulags
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Jan 14, 2018 17:11
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bagual posted:wow who would say foreign institutions can not be counted on to be politically neutral at all times "Dude, the fact that this leftist government failed after we cut their credit, poisoned their crops, drowned every rebel group in their country in money and distorted their standing on the world's financial stage proves beyond a doubt that socialism can never work!"
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Jan 14, 2018 17:21
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Sephyr posted:"Dude, the fact that this leftist government failed after we cut their credit, poisoned their crops, drowned every rebel group in their country in money and distorted their standing on the world's financial stage proves beyond a doubt that socialism can never work!" It's the American Republican strategy of "This will never work, and we'll prove it by making sure of that"
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Jan 14, 2018 22:30
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GlyphGryph posted:It's the American Republican strategy of "This will never work, and we'll prove it by making sure of that" I remember doing a research about american Op-eds in 2004, back when I still was a proud, reasonable center-right neoliberal, and finding a piece by William Safire in the NYT that was basically him bragging about an american sabotage campaign in Russian power lines/plants that caused a series of brownouts across a couple of regions and helped damage the people's confidence in their government and system. Even then, I couldn't avoid thinking "Hmm. If it was -really- that bad, you wouldn't have needed to give the extra push.". Accelerationism is a viable strategy for some, I guess. P.s- I basically took an interest in Safire after that and started reading back his stuff and holy gently caress, he was a vile little goblin of a man. In think the NYT loses only narrowly to the Koch Brothers in the "gives hideous monsters a high-profile writing job" field.
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Jan 15, 2018 11:15
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bagual posted:wow who would say foreign institutions can not be counted on to be politically neutral at all times LOL at an index that estimates 3 man days to open a business in Chile. edit: fwiw all methodology changes from 2005-present are published so idk experts can judge for themselves. http://www.doingbusiness.org/Methodology/Changes-to-the-Methodology wateroverfire fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 12:46
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"days to open a business" as an economic quality benchmark is typical of MBA school hackery and should be thrown in a fire
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Jan 15, 2018 14:39
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That was such a flabbergasting non-sequitur response. "Capitalist countries actively pour money into sabotaging other economies and then claim they can't work" "LOL it takes (more than?) 3 days to open a business in Chile. Checkmate."
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Jan 15, 2018 15:26
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Cup Runneth Over posted:That was such a flabbergasting non-sequitur response. The index is dumb and kind of meaningless is my point. Also nobody at the Wrold Bank is trying to sabotage Chile jfc. Chile is perfectly capable of sabotaging itself thank you very much.
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Jan 15, 2018 15:51
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dead comedy forums posted:"days to open a business" as an economic quality benchmark is typical of MBA school hackery and should be thrown in a fire It's super dumb. Also reeeeeeally not representitive of the actual bureaucratic process here.
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Jan 15, 2018 15:54
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I wasn't implying Chile was being sabotaged I just had no idea what you were trying to say relevant to the conversation.
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Jan 15, 2018 15:57
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wateroverfire posted:The index is dumb and kind of meaningless is my point. Also nobody at the Wrold Bank is trying to sabotage Chile jfc. Chile is perfectly capable of sabotaging itself thank you very much. They literally admitted to doing this
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Jan 15, 2018 15:57
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Badger of Basra posted:They literally admitted to doing this lol no they didn't. Roemer opined that some changes in methodology - that were not specific to Chile - might have been ideologically motivated and the Bank said probably not but we'll review.
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Jan 15, 2018 16:30
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loving called it so Paul Romer, chief economist at the world bank somehow is a separate entity that the bank hasn't acknowledged to wateroverfire posted:lol no they didn't. Roemer opined that some changes in methodology - that were not specific to Chile - might have been ideologically motivated and the Bank said probably not but we'll review. World bank business index for investors dumb and don't matter wateroverfire posted:It's super dumb. Also reeeeeeally not representitive of the actual bureaucratic process here. "it wasn't foul play because it was actually true" wateroverfire posted:Chile is perfectly capable of sabotaging itself thank you very much. Aka they didn't do it, and if they did it it doesn't matter, and if it matters we deserved it.
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Jan 15, 2018 16:50
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As a small business owner, It's loving awful to be a small business in south america. It took me almost a year to get up and running due to all the bureaucracy. I lost my ID (required to start a business) and it took 3 months to get a new one because the government ran out of money to buy the special ID paper to print my ID. Small business owners are also dumb as gently caress because they believe they are closer to the medium and big businesses than they are from regular rear end workers. So they vote for poo poo that only benefits big businesses and fucks them and their employees over. It's even worse if you're in the tertiary (service) sector. South American countries never stopped being colonies, and the only people who make serious money here are the big agro and mining industry owners (usually from families that originally inherited the colonial lands.) So tertiary sector small businesses get taxed waaay more than they can afford to be competitive against big companies, who have all the lobbyist and get all the big subsidies. Usually if the business isn't a smashing success it probably will not survive the first year. Which is why I can only say a big gently caress you to whoever thinks economy is a priority over social welfare. Good economy indicators only mean that the big companies are making money for their CEOs while paying poo poo to workers. People told me I would become right wing once I started being a business owner in Brazil but if anything it just made me more sick of the unfair competition bullshit and how south america as whole works for the interests of big companies that export raw materials to the first world using slave labor, not unlike 500 years ago. It's also very stupid how easy it is to evade taxes (which almost everyone does without remorse) so I feel like a dumbass when I make extra sure I'm paying the right stuff. nerdz fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 17:07
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Brazil has stupid large banks with stupid large presence on the overall economy, which is peak rentier state: primary exports and financial services as the strongest aspects pretty much means "We Don't Care About Building or Developing Anything and Therefore gently caress Everybody Who Isn't a Millionaire" at max levels
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Jan 15, 2018 17:35
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wateroverfire posted:LOL at an index that estimates 3 man days to open a business in Chile. Well no poo poo, opening a real business anywhere takes several months of putting together funding and coming up with a working business plan. Oh wait, you're just complaining it might be difficult to setup a useless shell corp.
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Jan 15, 2018 21:25
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fishmech posted:Well no poo poo, opening a real business anywhere takes several months of putting together funding and coming up with a working business plan. Nobody is talking about starting a business. Just registering your business so it legally exists takes three days. Here in Uruguay it takes longer depending on the type of business but if you want a shell anonymous society it takes less than a day because you can buy pre registered ones so you can start laundering your money right away.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:20
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Why are shells even allowed to exist, do they have any use other than shady poo poo?
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Jan 16, 2018 01:36
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large adult son posted:Why are shells even allowed to exist, do they have any use other than shady poo poo? Politicians use them, therefore they are legal.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:09
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e: ^^^^What he said Why would governments limit shell companies if that's the best way for them to hide what they own?
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Jan 16, 2018 02:17
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The obviousness of Brazilian media corruption was super evident when the panama papers came out and a shitton of info on shell companies in Brazil came out, but you had to read it from the foreign partners on the panama papers release, not the Brazilian ones. Like, super simple stuff that you could check yourself (like the Marinhos building a mansion literally in the middle of protected national forest and claiming it wasn't theirs, when the shell company that owned the house used the same address as the office of one of the Marinhos). After a dutch newspaper broke the story anyone could go online and verify it, and the Marinhos still denied it was theirs, and no national media outlet ever pointed out the truth.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:43
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joepinetree posted:The obviousness of Brazilian media corruption was super evident when the panama papers came out and a shitton of info on shell companies in Brazil came out, but you had to read it from the foreign partners on the panama papers release, not the Brazilian ones. Like, super simple stuff that you could check yourself (like the Marinhos building a mansion literally in the middle of protected national forest and claiming it wasn't theirs, when the shell company that owned the house used the same address as the office of one of the Marinhos). After a dutch newspaper broke the story anyone could go online and verify it, and the Marinhos still denied it was theirs, and no national media outlet ever pointed out the truth. My favorite quote about the brazilian elite comes from regrettable shithead Arnaldo Jabor, before his brain rotted completely when Digo Mainardi basically stole his thunder as "well-spoken progressive center-right guy". "Our elite has nursed on the State for 400 years, and yet make their bones by attacking it at every chance. They feel doubly rewarded then, holding themselves as both landlords and rebels. They suck on one teat and punch the other. Forever."
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Jan 16, 2018 15:06
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Rodrigo Maia says the Bolsa Família is slavery  http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/intern...in-the-us.shtml
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Jan 18, 2018 17:46
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Well, Lula was just found guilty of corruption charges. Protests all over Brazil by the Worker's Party. Don't tell me that Bolsonaro gently caress is going to get a win, here.
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Jan 24, 2018 21:52
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lula to be arrested tomorrow
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Jan 24, 2018 23:22
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nerdz posted:lula to be arrested tomorrow  What's the over-under on him spending more time in jail than Odebrecht?
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Jan 25, 2018 02:40
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Olive Branch posted:Well, Lula was just found guilty of corruption charges. Protests all over Brazil by the Worker's Party. Don't tell me that Bolsonaro gently caress is going to get a win, here. You know we're doomed already.
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Jan 25, 2018 03:22
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Condolences for your stupid government Brazil goons.
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Jan 25, 2018 05:08
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Squalid posted:Condolences for your stupid government Brazil goons. Eh. It was a very limp affair, to be honest. Even my family and friends, who hate Lula as if he had shat in their cereal for the last 5 years without fail, couldn't muster more than retweeting a meme or two. There was some wanker with a bullhorn on his balcony, someone else beating a pan in the distance, some fireworks in Higienopolis (the upper-middle-class pretentious neighborhood), and that was it. I feel we are at the level in which everyone's apathy is just overwhelming. No one cares that is not being paid to: journalist boosters of the new regime hoping for concessions and further 'reforms', online activists trying to keep the hype alive, and that's it. You don't go to this lengths to steal the country only to give it back 2 years later. The only question now is if we'll get Bolsonaro or a hollow neoliberal suit that will be hailed as the moderate savior of Brasil until things crash, and then we get whomever Bolsonaro 2.0 will be.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:19
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It will be the latter.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:23
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Negrostrike posted:You know we're doomed already. While I'm personally glad Lula's chances of running again are very slim, I think the chances that loving Bolsonaro wins are microscopic. He's just a clown, and not even a billionaire clown.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:20
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