(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Flavius Belisarius posted:Is this the 4x thread or the tankie thread if mods for Paradox games are any indication, we're lucky it's the tankie thread and not the nazi thread
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Jan 13, 2018 21:40
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The real horseshoe theory is being a mapgamer.
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Jan 13, 2018 21:44
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Fallen Hamprince posted:if mods for Paradox games are any indication, we're lucky it's the tankie thread and not the nazi thread It's pretty amazing that a mod community can be composed entirely of schizophrenic balkan nazis if you think about it
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Jan 13, 2018 21:45
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hey guys props to the paradox forums mod team they banned saying remove kebab on there
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Jan 13, 2018 22:06
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I mean you can Lib-out all you want but Venezuela is a democracy on account of you know having universal suffrage and national/local elections for legislative and executive offices...
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Jan 13, 2018 23:10
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cuba is also a democracy please never mind what was on the ballot for electing the castro brother
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Jan 13, 2018 23:12
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:cuba is also a democracy please never mind what was on the ballot for electing the castro brother Cuba has some undeniable democratic elements (suffrage, local/regional elections), but yeah they're also unabashedly a single-party authoritative state  None of this means that Cuba is a democracy and Venezuela isn't a democracy tho.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:20
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your mom is a democracy
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Jan 13, 2018 23:21
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Everyone's favorite democracies (Nordic) are also silly Christian Monarchies, doesn't mean they're not democratic/cool.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:22
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Frijolero posted:Everyone's favorite democracies (Nordic) are also silly Christian Monarchies, doesn't mean they're not democratic/cool. castro and maduro occupy purely symbolic roles in a larger democratic framework 
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Jan 13, 2018 23:23
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Frijolero posted:None of this means that Cuba is a democracy and Venezuela isn't a democracy tho. I'm pretty certain the Supreme Tribunal of Justice and Maduro made Venezuela into an effective one-party state in the last 2 years after the opposition won a supermajority in the National Assembly, though? 
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Jan 13, 2018 23:24
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Frijolero posted:Everyone's favorite democracies (Nordic) are also silly Christian Monarchies, doesn't mean they're not democratic/cool. Long live the Kings of Finland and Iceland I guess
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Jan 13, 2018 23:25
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Cuba is more meaningfully democratic in terms of individual efficacy than the United States even in spite of being a one-party state.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:39
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Why should a socialist society tolerate elements that seek to re-institute capitalism? Presumably, a socialist society would have no reason to fear. Otherwise you're assuming the conclusion. The idea is that we proles are too stupid to understand that socialism is good. Sorry, I don't appreciate your brand of state capitalism.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:42
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Presumably, a socialist society would have no reason to fear. I mean, that's historically 100% wrong. The First World never stops attempting to undermine socialist projects, since even a couple decades after the Cold War ended we're still embargoing Cuba. Remember what I said about liberals tolerating everything in the confidence of their own hegemony? If there was a legitimate fear of communist insurrection, it'd be back to the COINTELPRO days in a heartbeat. US electoral law also creates a situation where the political system may not be de jure authoritarian and outright ban third parties, but in fact it's practically impossible for anything other than the two mainstream political parties to achieve representation - and gerrymandering further ossifies party control of a district which renders the voting rights of millions which are on paper practically useless. The United States is by design an authoritarian liberal democracy. It's impossible to even entertain seriously the notion of reforming our constitution anymore.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:54
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I mean, that's historically 100% wrong. The First World never stops attempting to undermine socialist projects, since even a couple decades after the Cold War ended we're still embargoing Cuba. I said a socialist society, though? Which is also what you said. I guess what you're saying is that there's never been a socialist society, and that in order to establish one, you have to suppress all other political leanings. Which is a different thing...us proles don't know what's good for us, so it's plausible you have to put us down by force.
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Jan 14, 2018 00:00
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:authoritarian liberal democracy
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Jan 14, 2018 00:12
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Frijolero posted:I mean you can Lib-out all you want but Venezuela is a democracy on account of you know having universal suffrage and national/local elections for legislative and executive offices... As did the USSR and Russia today Vibrant democracies rite
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Jan 14, 2018 00:56
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Our country has in universal sufferage and only 1 candidate on the ballot Very Democratic
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Jan 14, 2018 00:58
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Frijolero posted:I mean you can Lib-out all you want but Venezuela is a democracy on account of you know having universal suffrage and national/local elections for legislative and executive offices... libbing out over jailing opposition leaders
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Jan 14, 2018 01:05
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:I guess what you're saying is that there's never been a socialist society, and that in order to establish one, you have to suppress all other political leanings. Which is a different thing...us proles don't know what's good for us, so it's plausible you have to put us down by force. There have been plenty of socialist countries, but socialism is a decades-long project of development. It's the revolutionary transformation of society towards production for the sake of social utility instead of commodity exchange. It takes yearss and years to build up and develop socialist institutions, but it can all disappear in the blink of an eye with the right change of government. The same was always technically true of capitalism, which is why so many nominally liberal democratic countries turned to fascism and reaction to pre-empt left wing takeovers throughout the 20th century and even today. Insisting that we should continue entertaining the legitimacy of liberalism, conservatism, and fascism in light of the historical record is farcical, and is itself rooted in liberal pretensions to legalistic freedoms. I'm not going to entertain some punk accusations of paternalism for the sake of having to constantly remain vigilant against, say, privatizing public healthcare. If you're not committed to overthrowing capitalism and keeping it that way, you're not a real leftist. You're a liberal with left wing sympathies.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:11
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pener being an authoritarian makes a lot of sense
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Jan 14, 2018 01:25
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because it is sensible
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Jan 14, 2018 01:34
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HerraS posted:Long live the Kings of Finland and Iceland I guess Finland is Central Asia
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Jan 14, 2018 01:34
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Typo posted:As did the USSR and Russia today Typo posted:Our country has in universal sufferage and only 1 candidate on the ballot Bruh, just because countries are run like poo poo doesn't mean they're not democracies. The US has godawful representation and an abysmal voter turnout. Also, nobody said anything about Venezuela being vibrant. But you're loving nuts if you can't admit that it's a democracy.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:38
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if real socialism is the worker own of the means of production, and the dictatorship of the workers, then that necessarily excludes authoritarianism, because you can't both ration power among the populace, and then concentrate it. that's a contradiction. the second issue is that an authoritarian system will never, ever ever ever, ever, of it's own free will, transition into a non-authoritarian one, it has to be overthrown. power systems seek to perpetuate themselves, and the middlemen necessary to keep any authoritarian system in place will work against any serious reforms that would undermine their own station, the same as anyone else. think about it - you don't expect capitalists to magically just give up their power for the sake of anyone else, why would party officials be an exception? so if your goal is an authoritarian system as a 'transitionary' state towards real socialism, the cold hard truth is that you will be in that 'transitionary' state forever, and ever, or until it is overthrown, because you are not the exception. socialists are not magically better people that capitalists, they will also rationalize their own power and never give it up, even if ideologically it is required.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:42
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besides, everyone knows totalitarianism is where it's at
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Jan 14, 2018 01:49
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Who here is hyped for Stellaris: Apocalypse?
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Jan 14, 2018 01:54
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Autism Sneaks posted:because it is sensible not in the usual definition, no
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Jan 14, 2018 01:54
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does apocalypse turn stellaris into a good game
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Jan 14, 2018 01:56
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rudatron posted:does apocalypse turn stellaris into a good game I don't think so timothy
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Jan 14, 2018 01:57
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stellaris is paradox moving into like postmodernism because it’s a map painting simulator but the map has been removed and abstracted into a bunch of expanding circles and also all the other fun mechanics are gone too
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Jan 14, 2018 01:58
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https://twitter.com/speediest_sloth/status/952337049222295553
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Jan 14, 2018 01:59
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rudatron posted:does apocalypse turn stellaris into a good game It is supposed to make the war mechanics more like EU4 in space if I've read the devlogs correctly and also you can blow up or slave-shield planets. We're still probably two or three DLCs from Stellaris being "good" though.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:04
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venezuela's democracy is so healthy that if elections produce a result that maduro doesn't like he just appoints a different legislature to function in place of the existing one, which is like double democracy if you think about it and also have severe brain damage
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Jan 14, 2018 02:04
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maduro is just performing his duty as a vanguard of bus driver socialism
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Jan 14, 2018 02:08
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honk if you have solidarity
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Jan 14, 2018 02:10
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how dare you, maduro had literally years of experience licking chavez's rear end in a top hat on tv before he got made supreme leader
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Jan 14, 2018 02:16
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Fallen Hamprince posted:how dare you, maduro had literally years of experience licking chavez's rear end in a top hat on tv before he got made supreme leader this post doesn’t sound like a honk to me, buster
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Jan 14, 2018 02:18
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| # ? May 23, 2024 21:16 |
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Fallen Hamprince posted:how dare you, maduro had literally years of experience licking chavez's rear end in a top hat on tv before he got made supreme leader Worked well for Bashar al-Assad, after all.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:18
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