(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Fallen Hamprince posted:you know crowsbeak i've really come to appreciate your frankness, so many of the other tankies put on airs but you've always been very clear about being in it for the legal serial killing I don't support killing. I just support giving people a chance to think things over. 
Crowsbeak has issued a correction as of 16:57 on Jan 14, 2018 |
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Jan 14, 2018 16:33
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I wonder if the Gulags had that chart as a big bronze relief in the cafeteria with "SUCCESS" somewhere in cyrillic.
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Jan 14, 2018 16:49
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I have to say though I like comrade Pener because at least he's honest about his preference for left-wing authoratarian regimes so you can debate what he actually thinks instead of the nth attempt to rationalize [insert "Socialist" dictatorship X] as democracies
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Jan 14, 2018 18:22
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I’m a cop and I’m here to smash the gender binary 👮
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Jan 14, 2018 18:43
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pener is a lot like trump with the whole authoritarian telling it like it is thing
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Jan 14, 2018 18:45
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speculators hoarding grains to drive up global food prices. very bad! ONLY I CAN FIX THIS!!!
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Jan 14, 2018 18:47
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:pener is a lot like trump with the whole authoritarian telling it like it is thing Remember, it is all about  people.
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Jan 14, 2018 19:15
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Left authoritarianism owns yiu idiots
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Jan 14, 2018 19:26
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Totalitarianism, as defined by Mussolini, which applies to certain socialist states as well as the fascist ones, is real bad. Thuggish intimidation (like with imprisonment or murder) of people who question your incompetent governance is also real bad. Hey Pener, saying "things that are different are actually the same" doesn't make you deep. The truth is, you're not even shallow.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:04
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Totalitarianism, as defined by Mussolini, which applies to certain socialist states as well as the fascist ones, is real bad. Putting capitalists in a GULAG system though, that is good.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:12
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Totalitarianism, as defined by Mussolini, which applies to certain socialist states as well as the fascist ones, is real bad. Cool, cool. So when do you graduate high school?
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Jan 14, 2018 20:13
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Cool, cool. So when do you graduate high school? Sick burn, bro. "I'm going to say stupid poo poo and not substantiate it at all. I'm also going to lash out at anyone who criticizes me for this. Huh, I wonder why I haven't attracted more people to my revolutionary vanguard? Well, it can't possibly be me..."
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Jan 14, 2018 20:17
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I substantiated everything pretty thoroughly, and if you can't engage with what I actually said then why are you posting at all? It sounds to me like you're still mad that people don't use "purge" to exclusively refer to political executions.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:28
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That's, uh, exactly the point. The word is used in two different senses with two different meanings, which you are deliberately conflating, because murdering people is apparently the same as firing them.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:30
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I would like to know why people who would deliberately work to undermine a socialist society should be allowed to act freely in it.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:31
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Crowsbeak posted:I would like to know why people who would deliberately work to undermine a socialist society should be allowed to act freely in it. Are we talking about a Platonic socialist society, or an Actually Existing Socialist Society, where the people at the top may be acting in their own self-interest?
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Jan 14, 2018 20:34
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Are we talking about a Platonic socialist society, or an Actually Existing Socialist Society, where the people at the top may be acting in their own self-interest? Answer the question. Why should a society allow those whose goal is to destroy it act freely?
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Jan 14, 2018 20:35
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*crowsbeak, one eye twitching, pointing to random passerby* ah, another underminer of socialism! to my basement with you!!!
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Jan 14, 2018 20:35
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:That's, uh, exactly the point. The word is used in two different senses with two different meanings, which you are deliberately conflating, because murdering people is apparently the same as firing them. Your own explicit definition of a purge doesn't preclude simply firing ministers. I pointed out that we're all allowing "Great Men" to purge ruling bodies routinely, because that's how democratic transitions in government actually work. It's just the facts, and it's not our problem that you can't evaluate anything outside of the Stalinist Soviet Union.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:37
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pretty ballsy of a man who literally says authoritarian socialism is the ideal form of governance to accuse somebody else of being mentally stuck in stalinist ussr
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Jan 14, 2018 20:38
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Crowsbeak posted:Answer the question. Why should a society allow those whose goal is to destroy it act freely? I don't know what "be allowed" means here. I guess I have no expectation that anti-Maoists be left unimpeded during the Cultural Revolution. But you're asking a question of "why should," which is a question of ethics, and I'd prefer that governments didn't murder people who stood up against tyranny.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:39
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Your own explicit definition of a purge doesn't preclude simply firing ministers. I pointed out that we're all allowing "Great Men" to purge ruling bodies routinely, because that's how democratic transitions in government actually work. It's just the facts, and it's not our problem that you can't evaluate anything outside of the Stalinist Soviet Union. Well, sure, if you want to ignore the constitutional structure of the United States government to make a non-point. Again, sick burn bro.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:41
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Well, sure, if you want to ignore the constitutional structure of the United States government to make a non-point. Again, sick burn bro. The United Kingdom doesn't even have a constitution and they do it all the time. You just don't understand what you're talking about. Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:I don't know what "be allowed" means here. I guess I have no expectation that anti-Maoists be left unimpeded during the Cultural Revolution. But you're asking a question of "why should," which is a question of ethics, and I'd prefer that governments didn't murder people who stood up against tyranny. This is just more of your bad faith bullshit. Not allowing antisocialists to operate freely is no more inherently murderous than the liberal state that jails tax evaders. If your issue is one of libertarian ethics then say it, but don't pretend that your objection is based on some kind of life or death moralism.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:44
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:I don't know what "be allowed" means here. I guess I have no expectation that anti-Maoists be left unimpeded during the Cultural Revolution. But you're asking a question of "why should," which is a question of ethics, and I'd prefer that governments didn't murder people who stood up against tyranny. As I mentioned before, I am against capital punishment. Now expulsion or imprisonment, the first of which the founding fathers of America used quite extensively. That is fine. Also I can see the cuck Bulolgi can't actually make a case for capitalism.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:48
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The simplest way I can think to frame the issue is this: if you accept the principle that "private property is a theft of the commons," then in a socialist society wouldn't anyone agitating for a return to capitalism be engaged in a criminal conspiracy?
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Jan 14, 2018 20:49
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:This is just more of your bad faith bullshit. Not allowing antisocialists to operate freely is no more inherently murderous than the liberal state that jails tax evaders. If your issue is one of libertarian ethics then say it, but don't pretend that your objection is based on some kind of life or death moralism. You know that Stalin (and Mao, to a much lesser extent) did have a ton of people imprisoned and killed, right? Many of whom were actually socialists. The notion that it's fine to kill or imprison people who question your nominally socialist, actually state capitalist regime is comical.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:50
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:You know that Stalin (and Mao, to a much lesser extent) did have a ton of people imprisoned and killed, right? Many of whom were actually socialists. The Soviet Union and Communist China made intentional decisions to kill their political opponents. There's nothing in the communist rulebook that says you have to execute dissenters - and we can explain this to you over and over again but you're still stuck in to comparing everything to Stalin and Mao.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:55
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Crowsbeak posted:As I mentioned before, I am against capital punishment. Now expulsion or imprisonment, the first of which the founding fathers of America used quite extensively. That is fine. wow, you’ve almost managed to say that killing people for their politics is bad, at this rate we will arrive somewhere near non psycho opinions sometime in the next several months
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Jan 14, 2018 20:55
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Soviet Union and Communist China made intentional decisions to kill their political opponents. There's nothing in the communist rulebook that says you have to execute dissenters - and we can explain this to you over and over again but you're still stuck in to comparing everything to Stalin and Mao. Kill and imprison, I said. Imprisoning dissidents being something you likened to imprisoning tax evaders. How dare these people question their rulers?! Goddamn anarchists and Trotskyites.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:59
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:wow, you’ve almost managed to say that killing people for their politics is bad, at this rate we will arrive somewhere near non psycho opinions sometime in the next several months Well if someone dies in prison. That's their fault. No matter how bad the prison is. Also are you going to ever defend capitlaism? Or are you going to cry that some of us want to imprison bad people who exploit others?
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Jan 14, 2018 21:00
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Soviet Union and Communist China made intentional decisions to kill their political opponents. There's nothing in the communist rulebook that says you have to execute dissenters - and we can explain this to you over and over again but you're still stuck in to comparing everything to Stalin and Mao. its good as hell to me
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Jan 14, 2018 21:03
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Kill and imprison, I said. Imprisoning dissidents being something you likened to imprisoning tax evaders. How dare these people question their rulers?! Goddamn anarchists and Trotskyites. Why can't you just engage with the actual point of discussion? I even explicitly framed it for you: Pener Kropoopkin posted:if you accept the principle that "private property is a theft of the commons," then in a socialist society wouldn't anyone agitating for a return to capitalism be engaged in a criminal conspiracy? Getting you goobers to actually respond to the point is like trying to herd cats.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:04
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Why can't you just engage with the actual point of discussion? I even explicitly framed it for you: You "explicitly framed it" in a separate post. You genuinely seem to not believe that people should be able to question their nominally socialist rulers. This is bizarre. Because history demonstrates a bunch of nominally socialist rulers who should have been questioned. Per your question, you have (goddamn it) once again assumed the conclusion. "We're gonna found a society on the basis that 'private property is a theft of the commons'! If you question this founding principle, you should be imprisoned or executed!" This has the perverse result of endorsing the anti-socialist persecution that was engaged in in liberal nations. You hate socialism that much?
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Jan 14, 2018 21:11
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:This has the perverse result of endorsing the anti-socialist persecution that was engaged in in liberal nations. You hate socialism that much? Galaxy brain
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Jan 14, 2018 21:13
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i want to redstribute wealth and imprison and kill all my enemies and billionaires
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Jan 14, 2018 21:17
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Dreddout posted:Galaxy brain Thanks! But seriously, first principles are arbitrary. Read your Aristotle. Your first principles are the ones you take as "self evident," like mathematical axioms. Liberals and socialists take on different sets of first principles. Asserting that it's OK to kill and imprison based on your choice of axiom is trivial; Ayn Rand would say the same. "No, our self-evident truth is better than your self-evident truth" is, again, comical. This isn't an argument about dialectics, it's a matter of emotional belief.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:20
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Thanks! Hell yes, I love philosophy 101
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Jan 14, 2018 21:23
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Read your Aristotle. No.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:44
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Did Tacky-rear end Rococco just try to argue that ideologies are meaningless?
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Jan 14, 2018 22:04
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everything is meaningless. by huffing my own farts i can conclude that i exist, but nothing more
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Jan 14, 2018 22:51
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