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Hodgepodge posted:The dark side gives power- unlimited power! But rather than that power accomplishing what one hopes for, it simply allows you to dominate others; this meaning that yes, the dark side is simply the one who uses it, and the destruction of everything else. So what you're saying is that Rey, with her unlimited power, ability and willingness to dominate others, and subconscious solipsism, is the embodiment of the "dark side". This is probably best shown in her faith in her ability to win ober Kylo Ren, when it turns out that Kylo Ren has a mind and ideas of his own. Instead of reflecting on this, she goes back to the campaign to restore the Senate and the Jedi Order, having learned nothing.
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Jan 15, 2018 23:57
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So what you're saying is that Rey, with her unlimited power, ability and willingness to dominate others, and subconscious solipsism, is the embodiment of the "dark side". No. The cave is a place you go to confront the dark side, and are shown that it is within you. Have you ever watched a Star Wars movie?
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Jan 15, 2018 23:58
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Hodgepodge posted:No. The cave is a place you go to confront the dark side, and are shown that it is within you. Your arguments are becoming poetically banal. What the cavern is actually showing is that Rey is the dark side. That there is nothing in the mirror except herself is what the dark side is saying. She's completely suckered by this narcissistic fantasy, and proceeds to act as if she was in the right by fighting the First Order. And in the moral universe of the movies, this is correct. The movie is itself the dark side. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 00:07
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Your arguments are becoming poetically banal. What the cavern is actually showing is that Rey is the dark side. That there is nothing in the mirror except herself is what the dark side is saying. No really, have you seen the scene that is being referenced from the Empire Strikes Back?
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Jan 16, 2018 00:13
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Your arguments are becoming poetically banal. Most people just call it objective reality.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:15
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Hodgepodge posted:No really, have you seen the scene that is being referenced from the Empire Strikes Back? I know it’s Luke’s head in the Vader helmet right?
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Jan 16, 2018 00:16
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Hodgepodge posted:No really, have you seen the scene that is being referenced from the Empire Strikes Back? Why does the Campbellian banality justify the narcissistic fantasy that is TLJ?
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Jan 16, 2018 00:17
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Why does the Campbellian banality justify the narcissistic fantasy that is TLJ? You're just retreating to a pose of superiority to the material again. People tried to tell you this earlier, but this makes you come off as stupid, rather than smart, because you dismiss what you are seeing instead of interpreting it. If your goal is to impress people by talking about Star Wars, you've failed. Badly. All you've done is prove that you cannot even interpret the banally obvious.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:21
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Why does the Campbellian banality justify the narcissistic fantasy that is TLJ? Maybe you should give this a shot yourself, given your intimate familiarity with narcissistic fantasies.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:23
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Hodgepodge posted:you dismiss what you are seeing instead of interpreting it. It's rather straight-forward. The cave scene in ESB is an allusion to a Hero with a Thousand Faces: Joseph Campbell posted:And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence; and where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world. The cave scene in TLJ goes even further with the New Age-y egocentrism. You're trying to frame it as a statement against narcissism, when in reality the movie's universe perfectly conforms with the narcissistic fantasy the scene presents - Rey is the truth, the path forward.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:31
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's rather straight-forward. The cave scene in ESB is an allusion to a Hero with a Thousand Faces: I'm not saying that Star Wars is not based on Campbell, I'm saying that this is straightforward to interpret and not an excuse to be dismissive. Since you insist on treating it as such you are unable to react in any way beyond constructing tautologies which reinforce your dismissal of the subject.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:37
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Hodgepodge posted:I'm not saying that Star Wars is not based on Campbell, I'm saying that this is straightforward to interpret and not an excuse to be dismissive. Since you insist on treating it as such you are unable to react in any way beyond constructing tautologies which reinforce your dismissal of the subject. What you're resisting is the idea of someone pointing out that Star Wars is not very good on the principle that it's detrimental to "interpreting" it, which apparently would prove that the Star Wars saga is equivalent to the Mahabharata. In truth Star Wars is spiritually barren.This is evident in how you're concerned with meaning over insight. Yes, the Dark Side signifies narcissistic destruction - that's largely its meaning - but Star Wars has little insight into the topic. This concern with signification over understanding is why you keep asking if I've seen the Star Wars movies to know what the cave scenes signify for them, instead of asking what those cave scenes say about nightmares and fantasy. The cave scene in TLJ is simply a bland scene of a narcissistic fantasy. You can interpret this in several ways, none of them very flattering for the movie. The most interesting reading is that the main character takes the completely wrong lesson from it and becomes a villain, but it hardly improves TLJ: The equivalent scene in John Boorman's Excalibur of a naked Lancelot battling himself is superior to those in ESB and TLJ. It's meaning is straight-forward, and the interesting part is in how it presents insight into the nature of nightmare. Lancelot's nudity for example is a very simple and effective device to underline the vulnerability one may feel in a nightmare. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 01:04
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Mods, please restrict BravestOfTheLamps from posting in all threads, except threads that BravestOfTheLamps creates.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:06
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:In truth Star Wars is spiritually barren.This is evident with how you're concerned with meaning over insight. Star Wars is space opera. It's pulp storytelling, not friggin Ecclesiastes.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:08
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Captain von Trapp posted:Star Wars is space opera. It's pulp storytelling, not friggin Ecclesiastes. "The whole genre is not as good as the Bible" is not really an excuse.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:18
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Can this thread be about star wars and not a PhD thesis on why this isn't objectively the best movie/story ever?
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Jan 16, 2018 01:23
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:What you're resisting is the idea of someone pointing out that Star Wars is not very good on the principle that it's detrimental to "interpreting" it, which apparently would prove that the Star Wars saga is equivalent to the Mahabharata. In truth Star Wars is spiritually barren.This is evident in how you're concerned with meaning over insight. Yes, the Dark Side signifies narcissistic destruction - that's largely its meaning - but Star Wars has little insight into the topic. This concern with signification over understanding is why you keep asking if I've seen the Star Wars movies to know what the cave scenes signify for them, instead of asking what those cave scenes say about nightmares and fantasy. I don't care about whether Star Wars is "good" or not. It can be compared to the Mahabharata in the specific manner in which I made the comparison. For example, both feature protagonists who interact with alien beings. The idea of faith granting supernatural powers you dismiss as unworthy, but you hold up the Mahabharata as an example of a work which of obvious superiority to Star Wars as a counterpoint to my demonstrating that in that work faith grants supernatural powers. This is a contradiction. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 01:26
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Corky Romanovsky posted:Can this thread be about star wars and not a PhD thesis on why this isn't objectively the best movie/story ever? If that poster doesn’t like TLJ for the reason that they feel like it doesn’t carry any insight into the concepts it brings up and then posts interesting things about their thoughts then that is....about Star Wars ? This discussion has been interesting to read imo
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Jan 16, 2018 01:29
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It can be an interesting read, but BotL has a habit of taking poo poo to the extreme, belittling people that are interested in a thing for entertainment purposes which creates a hostile environment and basically silences discussion among people not interested in wrestling with a pit viper.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:34
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Corky Romanovsky posted:It can be an interesting read, but BotL has a habit of taking poo poo to the extreme, belittling people that are interested in a thing for entertainment purposes which creates a hostile environment and basically silences discussion among people not interested in wrestling with a pit viper. It’s a thread about star war thoughts OP, that poster has no power over you
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Jan 16, 2018 01:38
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Hodgepodge posted:I don't care about whether Star Wars is "good" or not. It can be compared to the Mahabharata in the specific manner in which I made the comparison. For example, both feature protagonists who interact with alien beings. Your argument is that because Mahabharata did it, it's okay for Star Wars. It's a rather dull appeal to authority. You might quote a relevant passage from the Mahabharata and compare how Star Wars handles it. It's going to make Star Wars look terrible in comparison, but hey, go with it.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:40
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Corky Romanovsky posted:It can be an interesting read, but BotL has a habit of taking poo poo to the extreme, belittling people that are interested in a thing for entertainment purposes which creates a hostile environment and basically silences discussion among people not interested in wrestling with a pit viper. Yeah, I feel like CD may not be the forum for you. It's probably best to go to the general discussion threads of one of the other forums filled with normal people and talk about Star Wars there. CD is like one of the worst places on Something Awful to talk about movies. To put it in Star Wars terms, it's the Dark Side. Everyone's just talking about themselves.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:42
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Mulva posted:Yeah, I feel like CD may not be the forum for you. It's probably best to go to the general discussion threads of one of the other forums filled with normal people and talk about Star Wars there. CD is like one of the worst places on Something Awful to talk about movies. To put it in Star Wars terms, it's the Dark Side. Everyone's just talking about themselves. what on earth
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Jan 16, 2018 01:43
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Your argument is that because Mahabharata did it, it's okay for Star Wars. It's a rather dull appeal to authority. You might quote a relevant passage from the Mahabharata and compare how Star Wars handles it. It's going to make Star Wars look terrible in comparison, but hey, go with it. Yes, the point was simply that this thing which Star Wars did is not, in itself, bad. Star Wars could still be bad. Faith also grants supernatural powers in, say, various Bible Adventure games for the NES. It is simply neutral. I might go further, but I've already said that I've never been interested in whether Star Wars is good or not. Unfortunately, Indian epics tend to translate awkwardly. More for comedy than argument, here's a quote: quote:"Vaisampayana continued, 'After the expiration, O king, of a year from this, Dhritarashtra, moved by kindness for the people, installed Yudhishthira, the son of Pandu, as the heir-apparent of the kingdom on account of his firmness, fortitude, patience, benevolence, frankness and unswerving honesty (of heart). And within a short time Yudhishthira, the son of Kunti, by his good behaviour, manners and close application to business, overshadowed the deeds of his father. And the second Pandava, Vrikodara, began to receive continued lessons from Sankarshana (Valarama) in encounters with the sword and the mace and on the chariot. And after Bhima's education was finished, he became in strength like unto Dyumatsena himself and continuing to live in harmony with his brothers, he began to exert his prowess. And Arjuna became celebrated for the firmness of his grasp (of weapons), for his lightness of motion, precision of aim, and his proficiency in the use of the Kshura, Naracha, Vala and Vipatha weapons, indeed, of all weapons, whether straight or crooked or heavy. And Drona certified that there was none in the world who was equal to Arjuna in lightness of hand and general proficiency.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:52
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The cave makes Rey confront her fear of being alone, causing her to keep reaching out to Kylo. The reason she is so illogically drawn to him is because she feels like he is the only person who truly gets her, so she works backwards from there to justify how he can be her salvation. She wants him to save the galaxy and also to save her. She teeters on the brink of being won over by him and pulls back because he stupidly offers to murder her friends on the first date, which is frowned upon.
Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 02:43
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*very BotLy voice* Stupidly? You mean heroically!
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Jan 16, 2018 02:46
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Tender Bender posted:The cave makes Rey confront her fear of being alone, causing her to keep reaching out to Kylo. The reason she is so illogically drawn to him is because she feels like he is the only person who truly gets her, so she works backwards from there to justify how he can be her salvation. She wants him to save the galaxy and also to save her. She teeters on the brink of being won over by him and pulls back because he stupidly offers to murder her friends on the first date, which is frowned upon. a woman who wants a man to save her? between this and poe, this film is truly misogynistic
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Jan 16, 2018 02:54
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Finns gonna get hella laid in the next movie and be all like "dang good thing I missed hitting that laser tank".
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Jan 16, 2018 02:54
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Milky Moor posted:a woman who wants a man to save her? It turns out to be a bad idea and she leaves to work out some more so she can beat the poo poo out of him worse than she did the first time he asked her out.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:56
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Tender Bender posted:The cave makes Rey confront her fear of being alone, causing her to keep reaching out to Kylo. The reason she is so illogically drawn to him is because she feels like he is the only person who truly gets her, so she works backwards from there to justify how he can be her salvation. She wants him to save the galaxy and also to save her. She teeters on the brink of being won over by him and pulls back because he stupidly offers to murder her friends on the first date, which is frowned upon. Is this what happens in TLJ?
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Jan 16, 2018 03:54
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Is this what happens in TLJ? She calls Kylo "our last hope" when Luke won't help. She constantly puts up others as a totem because she just wants to go home. When kylo asks her to be his space queen she realizes it's the same old poo poo, and tries to kill him, before shutting a door in his face one last time.
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Jan 16, 2018 08:12
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i like BotLs take more. Rey is a loving nutter narcissist
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Jan 16, 2018 09:16
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Is Finn a virgin? Or did he bang captain phasma and that's why she's so pissed about him dipping out? :thinking:
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Jan 16, 2018 09:17
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Captain von Trapp posted:While I think this is a borderline disengenuous thing to say about a film with a gross well in excess of a billion dollars, it's funny nonetheless: This says more about TFA than it does TLJ...
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Jan 16, 2018 10:23
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The equivalent scene in John Boorman's Excalibur of a naked Lancelot battling himself is superior to those in ESB and TLJ. It's meaning is straight-forward, and the interesting part is in how it presents insight into the nature of nightmare. Lancelot's nudity for example is a very simple and effective device to underline the vulnerability one may feel in a nightmare. Rey should have been nude in the cave scene.
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Jan 16, 2018 12:01
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Rey should have been nude in the cave scene. Nah, runner chick doesn't have boobs.
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Jan 16, 2018 12:55
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BarronsArtGallery posted:This says more about TFA than it does TLJ... TLJ is also one of the top 10 highest grossing films of all time, so let's not overreact here. Worldwide it's grossed over $1.26 billion. TFA also had a smaller drop from week 1 to week 2 (-39.8%) than TLJ (-67.5%). Which could imply more people saw TFA multiple times than people saw TLJ multiple times. Or it could imply that some people waited until week 2 to see TFA because they thought week 1 would be a mad house. These numbers can be spun a ton of ways. The only real conclusion that can be drawn is that they both made a poo poo ton of money. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 15:25
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Yeah, the arguments about box office drop are confusing and in no way really coherent. Would those same people argue ESB was a box office failure compared to ANH? Because both ESB And RotJ had bigger box office drops from the original that TLJ did compared to TFA. ESB - 55% of ANH's take RotJ - 57% of ANH's take TLJ Currently - 67 % of TFA's take You can pick out numbers from whatever week or country or movie to make whatever argument you want at this point. It doesn't necessarily make the overall argument valid, you're just pointing our some statistical fact. At some point this week TLJ will pass $600M. It's already both the highest grossing domestic and worldwide movie of 2017 as of last week. Something several posters in here were fretting about just over two weeks ago. It's on track to finish $630-650M in US, and 1.3B+ overall.
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Jan 16, 2018 16:46
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Rey should have been nude in the cave scene. Sure, why not? bushisms.txt posted:She calls Kylo "our last hope" when Luke won't help. She constantly puts up others as a totem because she just wants to go home. When kylo asks her to be his space queen she realizes it's the same old poo poo, and tries to kill him, before shutting a door in his face one last time. All that is just because she's alpha. Rey is a total narcissist.
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Jan 16, 2018 16:51
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Mulva posted:Yeah, I feel like CD may not be the forum for you. It's probably best to go to the general discussion threads of one of the other forums filled with normal people and talk about Star Wars there. CD is like one of the worst places on Something Awful to talk about movies. To put it in Star Wars terms, it's the Dark Side. Everyone's just talking about themselves. Lol
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Jan 16, 2018 18:18
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