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Freaks and Geeks handles it surprisingly well when Seth Rogen finds out his girlfriend was born intersex, freaks out and eventually gets over it. That was almost 20 years ago and set closer to 40 years ago.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:37
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spog posted:There was the episode where some gay guy thinks frasier is gay and hitting on him. That was the new station manager. Everybody knew he was gay except Frasier. That ep even won a GLAAD award.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:38
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That was a great episode. "Dad wanted to tell you, but I won the coin toss."
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Jan 16, 2018 02:51
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If I recall correctly Roz also gets teased a couple of times because of her husky voice There was also that episode where Frasier has an extended dream sequence where he accidentally picks up a transsexual prostitute
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Jan 16, 2018 05:23
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Mister Kingdom posted:That was the new station manager. Everybody knew he was gay except Frasier. That ep even won a GLAAD award. I remember that episode. Whilst for its time and era it was very respectful and non homophobic, a minor quibble I have about it is how well the Station Manager takes Frasier's 'coming out' as straight at the end. The dude had been hitting on him hard all night, on what he assumed was a date that was going well, but at the end gets told it's not going to happen coz welp your dates not into dudes. He should have been at least a little pissed off.
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Jan 16, 2018 06:35
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The early 90s was definitely a turning point for LGBT awareness. Sitcoms, in that very earnest '90s way, attempted to mine gay/trans issues for "inclusive" humor, rather than disgust or outright contempt. It was a sort of implicit "Well, because we're making jokes about you, you're now part of the gang" thing. Shows started having "the gay one" in their casts. Rosanne, of course, went all in on this, to the point where seemingly every major character was gay/lesbian/bi at some point. Frasier was probably the most measured with its "gay humor" in part because significant cast members and I would assume writers were gay. Friends' jokes have probably aged the worst, but they're still pointed at a given character rather than towards gay people in general.
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Jan 16, 2018 07:58
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I mostly remember the punchline about a really ugly green dress being happily worn by an 'Irish crossdresser'. Though hey, at least it found a good home on someone who appreciated it. There was a bit of a recurring gag with how both Frasier and Niles are occasionally mistaken for being gay because of their mannerisms and interests, usually to underline the absurdity of the stereotype, and actually an interesting bit where Frasier, I think in the episode where he has dreams about waking up in bed with a man, starts questioning his sexuality, though ultimately concluding that if he had gay or bisexual leanings he'd have figured it out by that point in his life. (That episode actually ends with him dreaming Freud himself is in his bed, and concluding that since he's so bored intellectually he dreamed himself a wacky scenario just to give himself something to think about) That seemed to be quite remarkable for its time, to have a character openly considering their sexuality. The portrayal of psychiatry in the show is another story, given Freudian and Jungian theories are both considered woefully outdated and simplistic by modern medicine, I'm pretty sure, but with TV writers it's generally an improvement if it gets any better than 'tell me about your mother'. I mentioned before that Bulldog has aged very poorly, even though apparently him being over-the-top aggressively pursuing women was an inside joke given his actor was openly gay. Edit: Huh, apparently there's episodes where they actually call out on Frasier's preoccupation with mostly outdated psychology, especially behaviourist Lillith. (of course, that theory has in turn fallen out of favour) And Niles' Jungian theory is actually just mangled Freudian for the most part. Ghost Leviathan has a new favorite as of 08:39 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 08:35
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Frasier was always a pop culture psychiatrist. It's why he has a mediocre radio show. He left the real work to the professionals.
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Jan 16, 2018 11:40
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I will always remember his impassioned eulogy for one guy who died young of a heart condition where he laments people who subsist on cheeseburgers living longer than he did running and lifting daily. Deep stuff.
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Jan 16, 2018 14:26
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sassassin posted:Frasier was always a pop culture psychiatrist. It's why he has a mediocre radio show. He left the real work to the professionals. Most of his advice was pretty basic 'be true to yourself' type cliches which would probably be at home on a Facebook meme. No wonder Niles was jealous sometimes.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:04
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Unfortunately it seems it was more of a "Hollywood in general" type of situation. Ace Ventura comes to mind. Or any other movie where inclusiveness translated to "hey, what if the killer was a trans person?!". I've seen Ace Ventura mentioned a few times when it comes to bad representations of trans people, and correct me if I'm wrong, but technically Sean Young's character wasn't actually trans, was she/he? Wasn't it just Finkle pretending to be Einhorn as part of a needlessly complex plot to kill Dan Marino?
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Jan 16, 2018 17:28
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DrBouvenstein posted:I've seen Ace Ventura mentioned a few times when it comes to bad representations of trans people, and correct me if I'm wrong, but technically Sean Young's character wasn't actually trans, was she/he? At its heart it shows that to be a transsexual person you have to be brutally insane. So even if it was done as 'determined person seeks revenge,' at its heart it's still wildly problematic.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:36
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SEX BURRITO posted:Most of his advice was pretty basic 'be true to yourself' type cliches which would probably be at home on a Facebook meme. No wonder Niles was jealous sometimes. Niles was always the better psychiatrist. He's just jealous of his brother's fame, but also seems to be upset that he's not taking psychiatry as seriously as it should be.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:53
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Ace Ventura was definitely a product of its times and while that’s not an excuse per se, it must be considered when viewing it and indeed any film or series must be contextually viewed at where society was at that point in time if for no other reason than to appreciate the strides taken since it was released. On the other hand remember when ace talked out of his butt? Fuckin lmao
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Jan 16, 2018 18:04
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For some reason a lot of entertainment from the 80s and early 90s presents Sean Young as a transcendent, irresistible beauty, which I cannot wrap my head around. She's not a bad looking lady by any means, but I guess tastes have changed.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:32
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Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:For some reason a lot of entertainment from the 80s and early 90s presents Sean Young as a transcendent, irresistible beauty, which I cannot wrap my head around. She's not a bad looking lady by any means, but I guess tastes have changed. Do you remember how flat butts were in back then?
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Jan 16, 2018 18:33
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oldpainless posted:Ace Ventura was definitely a product of its times and while that’s not an excuse per se, it must be considered when viewing it and indeed any film or series must be contextually viewed at where society was at that point in time if for no other reason than to appreciate the strides taken since it was released. On the other hand remember when ace talked out of his butt? Fuckin lmao "Attitudes of the Time," unfortunately. Also one could make the excuse that the horror everybody has at Finkle's reveal could be less about the disguise and more out of the...contortions that Finkle used which were pretty extreme. He could have just wore something instead of that. That just looked like it hurt.
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Jan 16, 2018 19:17
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at least the superior second Ace Ventura film remains an untouchable classic
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Jan 16, 2018 19:21
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hawowanlawow posted:at least the superior second Ace Ventura film remains an unwatchable crapstack
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Jan 16, 2018 19:46
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OMG Sean Young and Debra Winger sandwich. Maybe some Margo Kidder on the side. One out of three of them didn't go insane. EDIT: OH OH, Dana Delany too! The 80's were a very different time.
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Jan 16, 2018 19:56
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Tiggum posted:I've been occasionally watching old episodes of The Simpsons. I'm up to season two, and this scene surprised me for how well its aged. Karl was going to come back in a much later episode, but Harvey Fierstein turned down the role because the episode was just a bunch of lazy gay jokes.
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Jan 16, 2018 21:02
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Honestly, I'd say that it was The Crying Game that put trans people on Hollywood's radar in the 90's. To the point where the plot twist in it is the only thing that people remember about the movie.
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Jan 16, 2018 21:08
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Instant Sunrise posted:Honestly, I'd say that it was The Crying Game that put trans people on Hollywood's radar in the 90's. To the point where the plot twist in it is the only thing that people remember about the movie.
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Jan 16, 2018 21:11
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I just found out that Ray Finkle was just Sean Young in a wig and mustache. I'm not too observant.
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Jan 16, 2018 21:17
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FactsAreUseless posted:I've always felt that "Now I have a penis. Ho ho ho." was a tasteless line. "Welcome to the dead gay forum party, pal" was pretty awkward too.
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Jan 16, 2018 21:30
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:Also one could make the excuse that the horror everybody has at Finkle's reveal could be less about the disguise and more out of the...contortions that Finkle used which were pretty extreme. He could have just wore something instead of that. That just looked like it hurt. Yeah, that sounds like reaching to me. Remember the scene where he burned all his clothes and sat crying in the shower while the song from the Crying Game played? As a little kid trying to figure out why I was different, I got the message loud and clear. DeadlyMuffin has a new favorite as of 23:26 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 23:19
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Instant Sunrise posted:Honestly, I'd say that it was The Crying Game that put trans people on Hollywood's radar in the 90's. To the point where the plot twist in it is the only thing that people remember about the movie. First one I remember was "Kiss of the Spider Woman". God drat you have a huge av.
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Jan 17, 2018 01:39
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Calaveron posted:If I recall correctly Roz also gets teased a couple of times because of her husky voice This is two different episodes. Dream Sequence is flamboyant coworker Gil Chesterton in bed with him. Weird episode. Transexual prostitute pickup was wacky misunderstanding.
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Jan 17, 2018 02:01
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DeadlyMuffin posted:Yeah, that sounds like reaching to me. Yeah, there's no saving it. It's gay/trans panic all the way.
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Jan 17, 2018 02:03
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Drunk Nerds posted:This is two different episodes. Dream Sequence is flamboyant coworker Gil Chesterton in bed with him. Weird episode. No, I know what I'm talking about. I wasn't talking about the Chesty episode, I meant the episode where he has an extended fantasy sequence wherein he picks up a lady stuck in the rain who ends up being a transsexual or at least man in drag I don't know what the correct term would be prostitute. He gets into a world of trouble and he has to explain the situation to his fat son Freddy, who asks him if that means he shouldn't try to help people when he can, the sequence ends with it flashing back to just before Frasier picks up the lady and he does so, letting you know that no matter what you should always try to help people and the lady turns out to be one of his neighbors
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Jan 17, 2018 02:26
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Nice body shaming
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Jan 17, 2018 04:01
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oldpainless posted:Nice body shaming More like oldshameless
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Jan 17, 2018 04:34
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Calaveron posted:No, I know what I'm talking about. I wasn't talking about the Chesty episode, I meant the episode where he has an extended fantasy sequence wherein he picks up a lady stuck in the rain who ends up being a transsexual or at least man in drag I don't know what the correct term would be prostitute. He gets into a world of trouble and he has to explain the situation to his fat son Freddy, who asks him if that means he shouldn't try to help people when he can, the sequence ends with it flashing back to just before Frasier picks up the lady and he does so, letting you know that no matter what you should always try to help people and the lady turns out to be one of his neighbors Huh, you're right. I always thought it was just a different woman at the end. Jeez what a weird copout
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Jan 17, 2018 05:44
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I'd like to pose a sincere question - what TV shows/movies/media exist right now that are not going to age well? I mean, the most progressive stuff - how is that going to look in 2058? What are our blind spots - yours and mine - this year?
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Jan 17, 2018 06:48
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Mister Mind posted:I'd like to pose a sincere question - what TV shows/movies/media exist right now that are not going to age well? I mean, the most progressive stuff - how is that going to look in 2058? What are our blind spots - yours and mine - this year? Trans-gender rights and gender fluidity in general probably? Our most progressive stuff now might look as clumsy as TV of the late 80s/early 90s tackling gay issues. Hopefully all our resources wasting poo poo like gigantic SUVs everywhere will by then.
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Jan 17, 2018 07:04
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Calaveron posted:No, I know what I'm talking about. I wasn't talking about the Chesty episode, I meant the episode where he has an extended fantasy sequence wherein he picks up a lady stuck in the rain who ends up being a transsexual or at least man in drag I don't know what the correct term would be prostitute. He gets into a world of trouble and he has to explain the situation to his fat son Freddy, who asks him if that means he shouldn't try to help people when he can, the sequence ends with it flashing back to just before Frasier picks up the lady and he does so, letting you know that no matter what you should always try to help people and the lady turns out to be one of his neighbors It's worth mentioning that episode was a couple years after Eddie Murphy famously picked up a trans prostitute (and claimed he was just giving her a ride home). It was a well-known example of "difficult to explain tabloid media incident" at the time.
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Jan 17, 2018 07:24
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Celebrity Deathmatch. Nothing about that show has aged well at all yet it was massively popular when it aired. Popular enough to get two reboots, the first of which was fairly successful. I rewatched a few episodes of season one a couple weeks ago and YIKES. It's nothing but horribly dated current events and pop culture references that could get obscure enough that I would barely recognize them. It did have a few moments of humor that still held up, like the Monica Lewinsky vs Hillary Clinton fight that had a ton of references to Whitewater, Vince Foster, the eponymous blue dress, all the things you'd expect and then at the last second it swerved completely into left field and ended with both women realizing their anger wasn't toward each other but towards Bill himself for being the lecherous cheating creep in the first place and chased him out of the arena. That was pretty unexpected and got some laughs out of me.
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Jan 17, 2018 08:02
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Celebrity Deathmatch was basically the Newgrounds video of its time.
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Jan 17, 2018 08:17
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Mister Mind posted:I'd like to pose a sincere question - what TV shows/movies/media exist right now that are not going to age well? I mean, the most progressive stuff - how is that going to look in 2058? What are our blind spots - yours and mine - this year? Master of None.
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Jan 17, 2018 17:54
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A lot of movies media TV shows with men in it right now aren't going to age well
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Jan 17, 2018 17:59
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