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Man, the recent XCOM 2 expansion is great
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Jan 17, 2018 17:08
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Everyone remembers the interactions of XCOM, the best laid plans going horribly wrong, but the moment to moment actually getting there can be horribly boring and obtuse as you try to get a read on the battlefield and position guys in the optimal spots. What Mario and Rabbids does is take the core of tactical systems, removes the terrible randomness, and puts an emphasis entirely on the player's abilities and how those abilities chain together. Describing it as a puzzle game isn't inaccurate (although there's certainly more than one solution outside of the very puzzle-y challenges). There's no ambiguity in the game, you either hit 100% or you hit 50/50 but even that will damage cover. And you do the most damage with melee attacks plus shooting so the game is constantly reinforcing you to get up and close. The timed missions of Rabbids, as a result, are far more thrilling and better designed than the timed missions of like XCOM 2. It's similar to a forgotten tactical game Full Spectrum Warrior that simulated urban combat through movement and fire zones. Enemies are basically invincible behind cover. Soft cover can be slowly destroyed but ammo is a finite resource. Grenades will flush out enemies into kill zones but again, finite resource. So you have fire team 1 pin down an enemy while fire team 2 flanks them for an instant kill. It was a great system shoved into a bad console port that was completely lost until GOG released the original PC version and go buy that!
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Jan 17, 2018 17:10
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Harrow posted:Well if you're doing well on an XCOM run, eventually you go from "revolving door of brutally murdered rookies" to "wrecking ball of hilariously overpowered and nigh-invincible veterans," so there's that. it's kind of a bad comparison because pyre was built from the ground up around the idea that you could lose every single game and still come out with a good ending, there's literally no failure state at all by intentional design. while working on the death spiral/snowball ratio in xcom may be warranted, removing the ability to lose a run entirely sounds like it runs counter to the core of what the game is intended to be
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Jan 17, 2018 17:13
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al-azad posted:What Mario and Rabbids does is take the core of tactical systems, removes the terrible randomness, and puts an emphasis entirely on the player's abilities and how those abilities chain together. Describing it as a puzzle game isn't inaccurate (although there's certainly more than one solution outside of the very puzzle-y challenges). There's no ambiguity in the game, you either hit 100% or you hit 50/50 but even that will damage cover. And you do the most damage with melee attacks plus shooting so the game is constantly reinforcing you to get up and close. The timed missions of Rabbids, as a result, are far more thrilling and better designed than the timed missions of like XCOM 2. This actually did more to sell me on the game than anything else I've seen or read, weirdly enough. I'm a big fan of RPGs that cut down on granularity and RNG to focus as much as possible on the player's own actions determining outcomes. Probably the same reason I like Mario RPG/Paper Mario/Mario and Luigi games so much (though Super Mario RPG does have a decent amount of RNG in things like the item freebie system, but that's just a nice bonus more than anything).
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Jan 17, 2018 17:14
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maybe a better thing to shoot for would be darkest dungeon where there's a high employment turnover rate but at the very worst you just start from scratch with some extra infrastructure
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Jan 17, 2018 17:18
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Cowcaster posted:it's kind of a bad comparison because pyre was built from the ground up around the idea that you could lose every single game and still come out with a good ending, there's literally no failure state at all by intentional design. while working on the death spiral/snowball ratio in xcom may be warranted, removing the ability to lose a run entirely sounds like it runs counter to the core of what the game is intended to be Oh absolutely, I agree. I don't mean that XCOM should lack a failure state. Quite the opposite: it should be more possible to lose a run late in the run than it currently is. Right now, if you're going to lose a run, that's decided pretty early, maybe mid-game at the latest, but once you're past a certain point you're going to snowball to victory because of how strong your soldiers/infrastructure had to be to get you that far. Something like Darkest Dungeon lacks a failure state (by default, anyway), which is why it can actually increase its brutality in the late game--your infrastructure sticks around and you can always train up new rookies when your veterans get horribly murdered. XCOM needs to have that failure state, so if it's going to increase the late-game challenge and keep the stakes high, it also needs ways to pull out of a late-game death spiral or it'd just be frustrating. More incentive to continually train up rookies, for example, would mean you're more likely to have a bench full of other soldiers you can field if your six best soldiers get wiped out in a really tough mission towards the end. The Mark Brown video refers to an article where someone suggests "low profile" missions that crop up in the late game and require you to send rookies instead of experienced soldiers as a way to push players to train up more rookies.
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Jan 17, 2018 17:19
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The XCOM 2 expansion has that “low profile” thing happen as a random complication that can appear for a mission. It also adds battle fatigue, so you’re incentivized to keep a rotation of soldiers. Also, you can send out your guys on offscreen missions every now and again, and you usually want some of your best guys for those, which means you’ll have to fill out your main squad with less-experienced grunts while your pros are away. So they’re definitely learning. It’s great.
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Jan 17, 2018 18:20
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i can only get up like 5 or 6 tent in they are billions before zombie ruin it
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Jan 17, 2018 18:48
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al-azad posted:What Mario and Rabbids does is take the core of tactical systems, removes the terrible randomness, and puts an emphasis entirely on the player's abilities and how those abilities chain together. Describing it as a puzzle game isn't inaccurate (although there's certainly more than one solution outside of the very puzzle-y challenges). There's no ambiguity in the game, you either hit 100% or you hit 50/50 but even that will damage cover. And you do the most damage with melee attacks plus shooting so the game is constantly reinforcing you to get up and close. The timed missions of Rabbids, as a result, are far more thrilling and better designed than the timed missions of like XCOM 2. Disagree. With Mario and Rabbids the timed missions feel very lock-and-key. I know that there's a "right" way to move through the given battlefield (or, like, 2 or 3 right ways). The 100%/50%/0% mechanic just makes tactics too simplistic, either you're in the right place and doing damage or you're in the wrong place and taking damage. There's no room for nuance. In XCOM each additional tactical decision nudges the bar either in your favor or the aliens, and making right decision after right decision can eventually get you to that point of dominance that Rabbids gives you if you've "solved" the scenario. That nuance means that there's a lot more depth to the anxiety and rush you feel in timed XCOM missions. Even if something goes horribly wrong you know there's still ways to maneuver the situation to get yourself back on top. With rabbids if things go wrong you may as well just start over and figure out what the game wants you to do.
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Jan 17, 2018 18:57
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RNG is a critical component of the thrill of Xcom anyways. You can't get rid of it because then you get rid of the stories where a soldier lands a hail mary low % shot or some alien runs 10 overwatches and then bludgeons someone to death. Besides, Xcom EU and beyond introduce a lot of ways to mitigate RNG with certain weapons and abilities. You are given tools to get around it when the situation demands it. The RNG component encourages you utilize more tools and can also create interesting tactical situations where your optimal plan fails. It can also be a huge load of bullshit but  I don't think Mario Xcom is a bad game but I much prefer the approach regular Xcom takes to battles.
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Jan 17, 2018 20:19
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I too am working through Mario Rabbids and I'm enjoying it. It's not hard, but I enjoy finding the best way to push my team's abilities to their absolute limits. Also the movement is an absolute blast. You can slide into at least one enemy/turn with each character, Mario can do jump attacks, and you can do team jumps to cover huge distances if you're smart. Combine that with pipes on most maps and you can do stuff like slide attack an enemy, go through a pipe, another pipe, jump off a teammate, land on an enemy's head, take cover, shoot them, and then activate overwatch. It's not challenging in the XCOM sense that everything can go to poo poo in a moment because of RNG, but if you try to maximize the useage of your skills you'll have a blast and feel like a badass. Also it has a really great mid boss theme: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=md_O41H_gJs
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Jan 17, 2018 20:21
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Harrow posted:XCOM needs to have that failure state, so if it's going to increase the late-game challenge and keep the stakes high, it also needs ways to pull out of a late-game death spiral or it'd just be frustrating. More incentive to continually train up rookies, for example, would mean you're more likely to have a bench full of other soldiers you can field if your six best soldiers get wiped out in a really tough mission towards the end. The Mark Brown video refers to an article where someone suggests "low profile" missions that crop up in the late game and require you to send rookies instead of experienced soldiers as a way to push players to train up more rookies. XCOM2 with the expansion pretty much forces you into having a deep bench. The fatigue mechanic means it's difficult to send soldiers on multiple missions in a row without a break, and the Resistance Ring allows you to send lower-ranked soldiers on FFT-style side jobs that lets them gain experience without entering the meat grinder, so that by the time you need them they can already be Sergeants or higher
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Jan 17, 2018 20:21
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Is the xcom 2 expansion integrated into the base game or is it a stand alone thing? I feel like I didn't play enough vanilla xcom 2 to justify getting the xpac but it sounds really cool.
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Jan 17, 2018 20:25
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MMF Freeway posted:Is the xcom 2 expansion integrated into the base game or is it a stand alone thing? I feel like I didn't play enough vanilla xcom 2 to justify getting the xpac but it sounds really cool. Its completely integrated with the base game. Just know that it adds tons of new mechanics so it may seem a bit overwhelming at first compared to the base game.
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Jan 17, 2018 20:28
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War of the Chosen gets bolted on top of XCOM2 and integrates into the main campaign; when you boot up you can choose between vanilla and WOTC. (Also there are performance improvements to the engine that they put into WOTC but did not apply back to the original lol) Edit: Waypoint is doing a WOTC stream if you want to see it in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG9sKRljo20
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Jan 17, 2018 20:29
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:XCOM2 with the expansion pretty much forces you into having a deep bench. The fatigue mechanic means it's difficult to send soldiers on multiple missions in a row without a break, and the Resistance Ring allows you to send lower-ranked soldiers on FFT-style side jobs that lets them gain experience without entering the meat grinder, so that by the time you need them they can already be Sergeants or higher Oh nice. I'm going to have to give it a try with the expansion, then--those mechanics sound like exactly what I'd want to see.
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Jan 17, 2018 20:46
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WOTC is a kickass old-school expansion pack that adds an absolute fuckload of gameplay and content and almost all of it is excellent. That's my Taking Back Earth story.
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Jan 17, 2018 21:08
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Speaking of expansions is the Zelda one worth it? I heard master mode just made enemies annoying bullet sponges and I guess the second DLC pack has a new dungeon and some more shrines.
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Jan 17, 2018 21:13
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nachos posted:Speaking of expansions is the Zelda one worth it? I heard master mode just made enemies annoying bullet sponges and I guess the second DLC pack has a new dungeon and some more shrines. A short (but tough) gauntlet challenge, 12 shrines, a new dungeon, some new armor (including functional horse equipment), and a bit of meh fleshing out of the supporting champions At $20 I'd call it a little steep but hey I'm a zelda fanatic so I was always gonna get it
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Jan 17, 2018 21:16
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The first pack is very slight but I liked the second a whole lot. The champions ballad shrines are some of the best in the game
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Jan 17, 2018 21:51
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nachos posted:Speaking of expansions is the Zelda one worth it? I heard master mode just made enemies annoying bullet sponges and I guess the second DLC pack has a new dungeon and some more shrines. The first one also adds the Master Sword Trials which is a big series of rooms to complete where you start off naked and have to scavenge everything , like Eventide Island. If you enjoyed the Eventide quest then it's probably worth it for that
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Jan 17, 2018 22:38
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I want to see more innovation in the field of tactical strategy video games because the genre is honestly pretty stagnant while in the board game world it is seeing a resurgence largely thanks to kickstarter but also a new wave of wargame designers. Like Infinity is a good tactical system where units are activated in any order but performing actions in sight of an opponent triggers them to take a reaction. In effect everyone has overwatch active always which makes line of sight, terrain advantages, and effective fire zones more important and eliminates the need to slowly creep up and waste actions activating overwatch manually. I enjoyed Mario + Rabbids so much because it feels like Ubisoft played some recent tactical board games like Krosmaster or Arcadia Quest. They understand the limits on what you can actually simulate in a video game, the joy of movement in a Nintendo game, and combined it to create a game that plays closer to chess than anything.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:00
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Breaking news: this just in...Street Fighter V is still a bad game Also I swear the loading times have gone way the gently caress up with the update
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Jan 17, 2018 23:04
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glam rock hamhock posted:Breaking news: this just in...Street Fighter V is still a bad game Despite being terrible at it I still had some fun last night. Also the loading times seemed maybe a little shorter to me, actually. Maybe we are both being filled in different directions by the change to the loading screen. Event battles having entry fees and attempt limits seems mean though, even if I know why they're doing it.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3Bd3HUMkyU Nintendo's new thing is that they're selling you cardboard btw, I don't know if anyone has posted about it yet edit: But to be fair, it's pretty cool cardboard edit again: but to be not so fair, the kits are 70-ish bucks for one set of each thing CJacobs fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jan 17, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 23:11
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they vastly misunderstood what google cardboard was when people told them about vr
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Jan 17, 2018 23:13
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CJacobs posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3Bd3HUMkyU Looking at the video, those are very intricate, so the price kinda makes sense. I really doubt it is the kind of thing that will take off, but you never know.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:16
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Looks neat for kids that are into crafty things, but it's not for me.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:18
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I wonder if the cost includes the software to play with them or if that's just something you download elsewhere. Imagine if each set has it's own cart.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:18
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I won't buy it but it's cute
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Jan 17, 2018 23:18
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Samuringa posted:Looking at the video, those are very intricate, so the price kinda makes sense. Even with the intricacy I bet they're pulling in an utterly insane profit margin on that. Props to them for their business savvy even if this probably won't be super crazy popular. And it does look like a fun thing for kids but the problem with cardboard is that it aint too well-reinforced and kids often don't know their own strength till it's too late. I hope it's a special kind of cardboard and not your straight up run of the mill corrugated box material at least.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:19
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Phantasium posted:I wonder if the cost includes the software to play with them or if that's just something you download elsewhere. Imagine if each set has it's own cart. each set comes its own cart
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Jan 17, 2018 23:21
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hi thread, it's me, cowcaster, i know that normally i loathe jrpgs but this sequel to one posted in the steam thread looks insanely good, thank you for your time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fpbkpsx3cM
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Jan 17, 2018 23:23
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Samuringa posted:Looking at the video, those are very intricate, so the price kinda makes sense. It's loving cardboard.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:23
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:It's loving cardboard. Its software and a bunch of stuff you see in a arts and crafts kits, so yeah it actually does.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:26
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The GIG posted:Its software and a bunch of stuff you see in a arts and crafts kits, so yeah it actually does. I've seen the "it's like a model kit from back in the days when that was popular" argument already and I'd like to remind everyone that model kits were made out of plastic and not cardboard
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Jan 17, 2018 23:29
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I mean having worked in in a toy department, no really, it is literally an arts and crafts kit but with software for a switch, those still exist and sell, a lot of them are also cardboard.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:31
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it makes sense if you remember that videogames are toys, for children
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Jan 17, 2018 23:32
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Brave Nintendo will save us from the scourge of lootboxes by selling literal cardboard boxes for $70.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:35
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The GIG posted:I mean having worked in in a toy department, no really, it is literally an arts and crafts kit but with software for a switch, those still exist and sell, a lot of them are also cardboard. The problem with it being cardboard and the model kit comparison is that you can't play the game without it- the game is permanent, but the cardboard is temporary, as opposed to a model kit where the kit is all there is.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:35
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