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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I tutored a middle schooler for a single day and I couldn't really get them to think about social studies in any way besides rote memorization, but when we started the little government module they asked me whether Canada was a monarchy or republic. I said we were a monarchy because the Queen E is our head of state, and the kid got really indignant and demanded to know why we had a foreign queen, why we needed her at all, and how we could get rid of her and what powers she had over us. Good kid.
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Jan 18, 2018 08:58
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if your tutoring doesn't involve teaching a kid the efficacy of guillotines in resolving social conflict then up your game cuz
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Jan 18, 2018 10:02
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Tias posted:Anyway, stop being a monarchist. Illegtimate power based on nobility can not not lead to horrible lovely corrupt banana republics compared to nearly all other alternatives.  I suspect the average monarchy worldwide these days is more stable/democratic than the average republic, to be honest.
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Jan 18, 2018 11:25
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IDK, monarchy can lead to Brexit, not a great outcome. Meanwhile, democracy can lead to Putin declaring himself tzar (any day now), so it's a mixed bag. Also, I made a gay t-shirt.
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Jan 18, 2018 11:44
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feedmegin posted:
Well, I mean, depends on where. European/Commonwealth monarchies, probably pretty decent mostly. Gulf states and random Asian monarchies? More of a mixed bag there. I suspect it's more that whether or not you're formally a monarchy or republic makes little difference to the actual well-being of the state compared to the strength and nature of your national institutions.
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Jan 18, 2018 12:31
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You can have the only good bits of monarchy (pretty buildings and stupid rituals) without pretending some people have magic blood that gives them the right to demand your allegiance and also money. By which I mean without monarchs.
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Jan 18, 2018 12:44
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Tomn posted:Well, I mean, depends on where. European/Commonwealth monarchies, probably pretty decent mostly. Gulf states and random Asian monarchies? More of a mixed bag there. I meant worldwide. Yes, it's mixed, but there are many more random shitbag republics in places like Africa to balance out the Thailands of the world (and Thailand isn't that terrible). Also Japan's a monarchy, of course.
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Jan 18, 2018 13:10
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feedmegin posted:
Oh, Denmark is exceptionally stable( and has the lowest war weariness of any coalition country), but that sure doesn't make it a very democratic place.
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Jan 18, 2018 13:12
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a constitutional monarch is hardly a monarch at all
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Jan 18, 2018 13:14
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Tias posted:Oh, Denmark is exceptionally stable( and has the lowest war weariness of any coalition country), but that sure doesn't make it a very democratic place. Is that because of the monarchy, though? Isn't the schedule of the Queen something like, "Ok. First, there'll be a photo opportunity where a little girl will hand you flowers. Then, since all laws are passed in your name, you'll sign this bill passed by the Folketing, even though you had nothing to do with its passage and don't agree with it. Then back to Amelienborg for lunch with the crown prince, where he'll bore you with stories about marathons, and you'll both eat salmon from Greenland."
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Jan 18, 2018 13:25
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I tutored a middle schooler for a single day and I couldn't really get them to think about social studies in any way besides rote memorization, but when we started the little government module they asked me whether Canada was a monarchy or republic. I said we were a monarchy because the Queen E is our head of state, and the kid got really indignant and demanded to know why we had a foreign queen, why we needed her at all, and how we could get rid of her and what powers she had over us. Clear proof that republicans are children.
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Jan 18, 2018 14:17
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Tias posted:I am not even being snarky when I say USA does not qualify for 1st world status in any metric except military. I live in Denmark, which claims to have the world's oldest monarchy, and one that is often being touted as the one that has updated itself most succesfully. There's still idiot making scandals and completely indefensible sums being siphoned off so their ex-girlfriends and friends can live in obscene luxury as well, though. Living in the US, and having been to some actual non-first world countries as well as good chunks of Europe (including Denmark!) I've got ot say that this is a pretty dumb hot take. Parts of the US are pretty hosed up, but they don't approach the problems of actual third world countries. It's doubly dumb because that's assuming that the worst parts of the US are what it's like all over. By that metric Canada isn't a first world country either because of the shockingly abysmal conditions in some of their native communities. If the lovely parts of Detroit or the more hosed up areas of West Virginia were their own countries, yeah, they'd probably qualify as third world countries. But they aren't floating off their in the void and while more could (and should) certainly be done to help them the help they do get from larger state and federal bodies helps a LOT. The US has a ton of issues (war on drugs, healthcare, current politics being batshit) and we can talk all day about the things that a tiny, relatively wealthy, relatively culturally homogenous country like Denmark does better but it's a bit much to put the US in the same category as countries that are truly struggling with basic issues of economic and political stability and providing for the needs of even a fraction of their people. It's not only dumb and needlessly insulting to the US, it's also loving insulting to the people who actually live in 3rd world conditions. I doubt very many people living in 3rd world conditions in Haiti or Dafur are going to look at W. Virginia and say "wow those poor people sure have it rough."
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Jan 18, 2018 14:30
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Tias posted:I am not even being snarky when I say USA does not qualify for 1st world status in any metric except military. lol
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Jan 18, 2018 14:31
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Let's bring back the "second world" concept. 
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Jan 18, 2018 14:41
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I mean, we're all first world because we're still on Earth.
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Jan 18, 2018 14:44
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Tias posted:I am not even being snarky when I say USA does not qualify for 1st world status in any metric except military. USA is first-world *by definition*. First World was the USA and its allies, Second World was the Soviet Union, China, other Communist states, , Third World was everyone who wasn't aligned either way. That's literally what the term means, it's a classification of political alignment, not economic status or "success as a country," whatever the gently caress that means. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 14:47
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Phanatic posted:USA is first-world *by definition*. First World was the USA and its allies, Second World was the Soviet Union, China, other Communist states, , Third World was everyone who wasn't aligned either way. That's literally what the term means, it's a classification of political alignment, not economic status or "success as a country," whatever the gently caress that means. It started out that way, sure. Terms shift in meaning over time. When someone in 2018 says Zimbabwe is Third World they don't mean 'doesn't follow either Brezhnev or Jimmy Carter's political line'.
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Jan 18, 2018 14:59
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The real question is whether monarchies or republics are better at waging war.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:06
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:The real question is whether monarchies or republics are better at waging war. We take you now to the last few years of the 18th century
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Jan 18, 2018 15:09
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as i left my house this morning i pulled on my body armor and chambered a round in my AK 47, my drive to work takes me through the territory of hostile tribes and you have to be ready i've lost two children to malaria and we have to walk about a mile to get fresh water, which is made much harder by the fact everything is frozen thank god for the series of relief packages sent by benevolent european ex colonial powers or else we'd pretty much all have aids just daily life in the USA
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Jan 18, 2018 15:12
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I once had a history prof from Germany tell me the US was an underdeveloped nation bordering on third world because we haven’t buried all our power lines yet.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:15
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"Hmm do these kids go to school or are they drug-fueled child soldiers being transported in a stolen bus?" I ask myself, waiting as the school bus picks them up.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:16
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lotta butthurt itt  Jeez, I just meant that the whole manifest destiny groove rings a bit hollow when you still have loving food deserts.In more exciting news, I'm taking Chemistry 101, and the most bad rear end slash horrible thing I learned today was that hydroflourocarbons in automatic fire supression can actually create hydrogen flouride at high temperatures, meaning that there have been actual cases of asphyxiation deaths when RPG rounds hit APCs and their fire control system turns into a lungfull of hydroflouric acid 
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Jan 18, 2018 15:17
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bewbies posted:as i left my house this morning i pulled on my body armor and chambered a round in my AK 47, my drive to work takes me through the territory of hostile tribes and you have to be ready Considering how often poo poo gets shot up around your place, and how water sources tend to get contaminated, Gay Sweden Air Force will start dropping aid packages soon. The thing about US is that the difference between wealth levels in the country is staggering. Maybe not China level, but still.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:18
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Tias posted:I am not even being snarky when I say USA does not qualify for 1st world status in any metric except military. . So LOL.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:20
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I think people exaggerate a bit how bad not-traditionally-first-world countries are. The lines have blurred significantly now. Within-nation differences are larger than between-nation differences in a lot of cases.Rent-A-Cop posted:20 US states and 12 American cities have larger GDPs than Denmark. This is a dumb way to misuse GDP. If you wanna go that way Beijing's GDP would make it the US's seventh largest state. Fangz fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 15:20
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Tias posted:lotta butthurt itt Why would they use a halon system in an armored vehicle
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Jan 18, 2018 15:24
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Tias posted:lotta butthurt itt You're just jealous of our late state capitalism.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:24
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feedmegin posted:It started out that way, sure. Terms shift in meaning over time. When someone in 2018 says Zimbabwe is Third World they don't mean 'doesn't follow either Brezhnev or Jimmy Carter's political line'. Sure, but "USA does not qualify for 1st world status in any metric except military" is objectively wrong. Tias posted:lotta butthurt itt Living more than a mile from a supermarket sure does sound horrific. quote:In more exciting news, I'm taking Chemistry 101, and the most bad rear end slash horrible thing I learned today was that hydroflourocarbons in automatic fire supression can actually create hydrogen flouride at high temperatures, meaning that there have been actual cases of asphyxiation deaths when RPG rounds hit APCs and their fire control system turns into a lungfull of hydroflouric acid If an RPG hits your APC, I really doubt aspiriating a bit of HF is even in your top dozen worries. This is like worrying about the pyrophoricity of DU penetrators, because when a metal dart moving at more than a kilometer per second comes crashing through your vehicle's armor in the form of a cloud of white-hot razor-sharp metal fragments, your most important question is going to be "Are those fragments on fire?" Phanatic fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 15:27
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:The real question is whether monarchies or republics are better at waging war. Actually, that reminds me. What do the professional historians in this thread think of The Dictator's Handbook? Their specifically mil-hist claim at one point is that, due to the nature of the interests at play, more autocratic nations are usually more willing to gamble on war improving conditions for the elite decision-makers (because they don't lose much even if the nation suffers and stand to gain a lot) but are less willing to put their full effort into the war as this would distract from the incentives they need to purchase the loyalties of their key personnel. Conversely, more democratic nations are supposedly less willing to go to war as it decreases the general welfare of their nation that democracies rely on to keep their voters loyal, but once committed they are more willing to commit whole-heartedly as everybody in the state loses out if they lose. They specifically used the example of Prussia - Prussia beat the Austrians because they were more democratic than the Austrians, but lost to the Entente because they were less democratic than the Entente (Franco-Prussian War? What Franco-Prussian War?) Overall as a layman their points about tracing the actual interests of individuals in government seemed interesting, but they seemed to rely heavily on everyone involved knowing exactly what the consequences for their actions were and always making the best decisions for their interests, and their military history explanations caused my eyebrows to shoot right up. But again, interested to know what historians think of them.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:28
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bewbies posted:as i left my house this morning i pulled on my body armor and chambered a round in my AK 47, my drive to work takes me through the territory of hostile tribes and you have to be ready Talking about fresh water in the US seems a bit rich given Flint, California and all the places with fizzy flammable water due to fracking
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Jan 18, 2018 15:38
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Based purely on your description I’m going to say “lol no” but as I haven’t read it it’s certainly an unfair assessment. That said it’s on to something with non democratic countries broadly needing prosperity to be stable but i think really over selling the importance of that vis a vis war. Wars are loving complex and like all complex things defy monocausal analysis.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:39
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MikeCrotch posted:Talking about fresh water in the US seems a bit rich given Flint, California and all the places with fizzy flammable water due to fracking Those are also outliers in a system that for the most part works. The vast vast vast majority of Americans can drink tap water without worrying about either lead or, more importantly for third world discussions, cholera. Those stories make the news precisely because they’re scandalous and unusual.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:41
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It’s an issue you can dig up anywhere. I just did some fast googles of “drinking water contamination in <country>” and what do you know you can find those stories in Europe too, frequently also involving old pipes. Denmark, hilariously enough, pops up with pesticide contamination from farms.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:45
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MikeCrotch posted:Talking about fresh water in the US seems a bit rich given Flint, California and all the places with fizzy flammable water due to fracking This canard is always a good one, "well this handful of unique exceptions means the NYC public water system is no better than the outskirts of Delhi"
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Jan 18, 2018 15:47
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quote:Their specifically mil-hist claim at one point is that, due to the nature of the interests at play, more autocratic nations are usually more willing to gamble on war improving conditions for the elite decision-makers (because they don't lose much even if the nation suffers and stand to gain a lot) but are less willing to put their full effort into the war as this would distract from the incentives they need to purchase the loyalties of their key personnel. Conversely, more democratic nations are supposedly less willing to go to war as it decreases the general welfare of their nation that democracies rely on to keep their voters loyal, but once committed they are more willing to commit whole-heartedly as everybody in the state loses out if they lose. They specifically used the example of Prussia - Prussia beat the Austrians because they were more democratic than the Austrians, but lost to the Entente because they were less democratic than the Entente (Franco-Prussian War? What Franco-Prussian War?)
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Jan 18, 2018 15:47
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The vast majority of cases of fizzy flaming water, including the one in Gasland, have nothing to do with fracking and have a lot to do with methane emanating from coal seams.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:49
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MikeCrotch posted:Talking about fresh water in the US seems a bit rich given Flint, California and all the places with fizzy flammable water due to fracking haha i know right, good thing matt damon is working to help the hundreds of millions of americans who don't have access to clean water
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Jan 18, 2018 15:50
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FAUXTON posted:This canard is always a good one, "well this handful of unique exceptions means the NYC public water system is no better than the outskirts of Delhi" 94% of India has access to clean water, according to the WHO.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:50
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Ten years ago the tap water in Nokia was contaminated because someone opened a valve between the tap pipe and the sewage pipe. Instead of flushing the sewage pipe, er, backflow occured.  Valves like that are hopefully not a feature in all the water treatment plans over here. 
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Jan 18, 2018 15:50
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