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Fangz posted:94% of India has access to clean water, according to the WHO. Okay, no better than the exceedingly rural 4% of Indians who likely live on national park lands without plumbing or electricity.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:52
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Seriously people, while 'the US isn't a first world country' is dumb, the 'outside of the first world you have to carry an AK-47 and live in dirt' idea is insultingly ignorant. If your notion of the rest of the world is informed solely by disaster relief videos and warzone reporting, educate yourself.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:54
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(googles africa) holy poo poo, you're right
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Jan 18, 2018 15:58
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Donald Trump, is that you? No, 'Africa' is another way of saying Somalia, Jesus loving Christ. Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 16:00
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Fangz posted:94% of India has access to clean water, according to the WHO. This is a definition of “clean” that is new to me: http://unicef.in/Story/1125/Water--Environment-and-Sanitation quote:India is home to 594 million people defecating in the open; over 50 per cent of the population.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:03
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Fangz posted:I think people exaggerate a bit how bad not-traditionally-first-world countries are. The lines have blurred significantly now. Within-nation differences are larger than between-nation differences in a lot of cases. Eight US states (Massachusetts, New York, California, New Jersey, Washington, Maryland, Illinois, and Texas) have both higher GDP and higher GDP per capita than Denmark, which is a more reasonable basis for comparison. GDP, of course, does not really encapsulate all the factors that go into first-world status or development or anything beyond gross economic output. Dickwaving aside, American international development aid is fairly significant and I'd hate to see it dry up because our dumbass leadership is insecure about the global status they're busily attempting to squander.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:04
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Phanatic posted:This is a definition of “clean” that is new to me: The figures I gave are from 2015. I don't see how people poop has to do with my original comment, and my wider point that yeah, obviously poorer places are poorer, but come the gently caress on quote:Eight US states (Massachusetts, New York, California, New Jersey, Washington, Maryland, Illinois, and Texas) have both higher GDP and higher GDP per capita than Denmark, which is a more reasonable basis for comparison. GDP, of course, does not really encapsulate all the factors that go into first-world status or development or anything beyond gross economic output. Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 16:05
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The WHO definition is actually pretty layered, ranging from "safely managed" on through "basic" and "limited" and what boils down to drinking straight from a puddle. Here are the criteria for "safely managed" - quote:• it should be accessible on premises, "Basic" is clean water from an improved source where you have to travel no more than 30 minutes to get it. This is less than ideal because of the possibility for contamination once the day's water is ported back to the home. Here's a link to the WHO's latest drinking water and sanitation report. The stuff on the definitions of their terms is around page 14. About 70% of the world's population has access to safely managed water and about 80% to basic managed water. Here's a nice set of graphs from the summary at the beginning that shows the (rather unsurprising) distribution of where drinking water is a big problem:  Fangz posted:In other words Denmark is an above-average US state in those terms. I don't really see the point of this argument generally speaking. I'm pretty sure the point is that Tias said a dumb thing and people are dogpiling a bit because this is the internet, it's 10am and we're all putting off doing something else.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:13
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Cyrano4747 posted:I'm pretty sure the point is that Tias said a dumb thing and people are dogpiling a bit because this is the internet, it's 10am and we're all putting off doing something else. Hey now, I'm multitasking.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:17
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Cyrano4747 posted:The WHO definition is actually pretty layered, ranging from "safely managed" on through "basic" and "limited" and what boils down to drinking straight from a puddle. I don't really wanna get into Tias's original point but I think some of the people dogpiling are really revealing their biases. Personally I think 'first world' is really becoming an increasingly obselete notion. Note that that map is a bit misleading because of geography because some of the large areas have relatively low population density, still yeah large parts of subsaharan africa have water issues. Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 16:17
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Fangz posted:The figures I gave are from 2015. There's a difference between "clean water source" and "'improved' water source that you still need to treat in your house with chemical purification to avoid getting sick." All "improved water source" means is "doesn't actually have poo poo in it." Rainwater collection, or *bottled water* counts as an improved water source. 94% of India has access to improved water sources. 94% of India does not have access to clean water. And if we want to talk about lead pipes in Flint, there's a whole bunch of the water supply that's contaminated with arsenic: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/19-of-indians-drink-water-with-lethal-levels-of-arsenic/articleshow/62226542.cms
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Jan 18, 2018 16:17
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Tias posted:lotta butthurt itt Food deserts are areas with limited access to nutritious food, not places with no food at all. People in food deserts live far from grocery stores with fresh food, but they have easy access to cheap and filling processed and canned food. Food deserts aren't about starvation, they're about obesity. Starvation is non-existent as a chronic problem in America, to the point where you can't even find statistics on death by starvation because of how rare it is. Some people go hungry, but in the sense of "I skipped dinner two nights in a row" and not "I haven't eaten in two days and I'm hunting stray dogs to survive". People who actually starve to death are abused children and elderly people.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:28
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Jeez, I just meant that the whole manifest destiny groove rings a bit hollow when you still have loving food deserts.
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Fangz posted:The figures I gave are from 2015. I don't see how people poop has to do with my original comment, and my wider point that yeah, obviously poorer places are poorer, but come the gently caress on Pretty close to average, actually. Below the United States as a whole but ahead of a lot of poorer, smaller states (the eight make up about 40% of the total population). My only real purpose here is to correct for the person you originally replied to, as I otherwise agree with Fangz posted:Seriously people, while 'the US isn't a first world country' is dumb, the 'outside of the first world you have to carry an AK-47 and live in dirt' idea is insultingly ignorant.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:31
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Tias posted:I am not even being snarky when I say USA does not qualify for 1st world status in any metric except military. "First World" is not a judgment of quality of life. It is a Cold War description of alliances. "First World" refers to "the USA or aligned with the USA." "Second World" refers to the USSR and its allies. "Third World" refers to nations not aligned with either bloc. This is not a metric that the USA "qualifies" for in terms of military power, human rights, or anything along those lines. Please note that this is not a deflection of criticism of my country; I agree that the USA is in deep, deep trouble in many ways these days. But "1st world status" is not a meaningful basis of critique.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:38
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chitoryu12 posted:Food deserts are areas with limited access to nutritious food, not places with no food at all. People in food deserts live far from grocery stores with fresh food, but they have easy access to cheap and filling processed and canned food. Food deserts aren't about starvation, they're about obesity. I can't really comment on this one because rickets is making a comeback in the UK due to the massive rise in poverty in the past decade
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Jan 18, 2018 16:38
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In summary the First World is a land of contrasts
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Jan 18, 2018 16:38
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Cessna posted:"First World" is not a judgment of quality of life. It is a Cold War description of alliances. "First World" refers to "the USA or aligned with the USA." "Second World" refers to the USSR and its allies. "Third World" refers to nations not aligned with either bloc. This is not a metric that the USA "qualifies" for in terms of military power, human rights, or anything along those lines. so if Trump aligns the US with Russia, and Europe distances itself from the US.....
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Jan 18, 2018 16:44
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Fangz posted:so if Trump aligns the US with Russia..... The 4th world is born...
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Jan 18, 2018 16:45
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welcome to Mega World
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Jan 18, 2018 16:46
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Fangz posted:so if Trump aligns the US with Russia, and Europe distances itself from the US..... 1.5th World?
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Jan 18, 2018 16:47
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Fangz posted:so if Trump aligns the US with Russia, and Europe distances itself from the US..... With the demise of the USSR, I think this makes Russia first world and Europe third world.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:48
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Ice Fist posted:The 4th world is born... Quick add a couple more and we can all start turning into orks and wizards and poo poo
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Jan 18, 2018 17:14
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Cessna posted:1.5th World?    EFB Beaten like someone who can't afford wired reflexes.
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Jan 18, 2018 17:17
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Whole lotta reactionaries ITT, Glorious Chairman Mao has already stated that the 1st World nations are the superpowers who oppress and exploit the 3rd World nations, with the 2nd World just being developed nations 
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Jan 18, 2018 17:41
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How did an offhand telling off of monarchism lead to an argument about American standards of living?
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Jan 18, 2018 17:44
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I don’t know but it has shitted up the thread pretty loving well
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Jan 18, 2018 18:16
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Cessna posted:1.5th World? 1 + 2 is 3 therefore Trump will make the US a third world country and Tias will be right
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Jan 18, 2018 18:19
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Breda is up next for Italian planes. Should be able to cover it all in one update. gently caress I hate being lazy 
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Jan 18, 2018 18:37
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SlothfulCobra posted:How did an offhand telling off of monarchism lead to an argument about American standards of living? Americans long to be crushed under the heel of a feudal system once more
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Jan 18, 2018 19:11
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JcDent posted:IDK, monarchy can lead to Brexit, not a great outcome. ooohhHH MY FREAKING GOD
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Jan 18, 2018 19:39
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:You can have the only good bits of monarchy (pretty buildings and stupid rituals) without pretending some people have magic blood that gives them the right to demand your allegiance and also money. By which I mean without monarchs. If you've really got to know, my ideal monarchic system is elective. There was nothing special about Hapsburg blood except its remarkable lack of genetic diversity.
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Jan 18, 2018 19:39
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The Belgian posted:Clear proof that republicans are children.  Indeed
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Jan 18, 2018 19:40
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:The real question is whether monarchies or republics are better at waging war.
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Jan 18, 2018 19:47
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Cyrano4747 posted:I once had a history prof from Germany tell me the US was an underdeveloped nation bordering on third world because we haven’t buried all our power lines yet. or maybe that's just dresden, where the water table is roughly shin level
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Jan 18, 2018 19:49
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Tomn posted:Actually, that reminds me. What do the professional historians in this thread think of The Dictator's Handbook? the kernel of this theory goes back to Kant, who thought that if people other than the monarch had a say in whether to go to war they would decide not to, since war was bad for commerce, a thing Kant loved. the problem with this is that both kant (for perfectly understandable reasons having to do with what he thought Enlightenment meant and how people would become enlightened) and later political theorists (who really have no excuse) are underestimating how loving NUTS public opinion can get in a state that is governed by public opinion. michelle bachmann, richard spencer, and steve bannon are all private citizens, all participants in the bourgeois public sphere (tm), and their interests are decidedly unwholesome. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 19:53
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HEY GUNS posted:that's rich coming from a country where they have to pump water out of all their excavation sites with huge city-spanning pipes Nah Berlin has them too 
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Jan 18, 2018 19:53
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FAUXTON posted:Hey now, I'm multitasking.
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Jan 18, 2018 19:56
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MikeCrotch posted:Nah Berlin has them too
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Jan 18, 2018 19:57
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feedmegin posted:I meant worldwide. Yes, it's mixed, but there are many more random shitbag republics in places like Africa to balance out the Thailands of the world (and Thailand isn't that terrible). Also Japan's a monarchy, of course. The argument is complex because in the last 200 years monarchies that become unstable have tended to quickly turn into similarly unstable but more persistent Republics. So while existing Monarchies may have a high average stability how can we say if the Monarchy produced stability, or if stability has preserved the Monarchy? Much as the atavistic and primitive species of oceanic isles have survived millennia in isolation from competition and environmental disruption, so too may human social institutions survived. I think to make a good comparison we should look at how well Monarchies vs Republics have in turn handled various crises like coups, civil wars, and invasions. It’s only when tested that we can measure the strength of an institution.
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Jan 18, 2018 20:06
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Squalid posted:Much as the atavistic and primitive species of oceanic isles have survived millennia in isolation ...
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Jan 18, 2018 20:08
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