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Teenage Fansub posted:We've got D_T for Jason Todd, Two Tone Shoes for Flash and BrianWilly for WW. I'm the Swamp Thing stan.
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Jan 18, 2018 07:30
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I'm going to dread asking I think, but what the hell is a 'stan'?
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Jan 18, 2018 07:58
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You remember that Eminem song called Stan about the mega fan? It's from that Basically a big fan of whatever I claim Gwenpool
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Jan 18, 2018 08:14
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I will always be the Torchbearer for Kyle Rayner, and Dick Grayson, DickBats.
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Jan 18, 2018 09:39
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Mr Hootington posted:I know this is a joke, but it is at the point where he needs to be extrajudically murdered. this wouldn't even be necessary. i cannot think there is any state in the united states where a man continually escapes, murders people, and is recaptured, tallying up hundreds if not thousands of murders, where a government wouldn't by overwhelming public acclaim introduce a death penalty and some legal mechanism to defeat the insanity defence.
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Jan 18, 2018 12:15
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catlord posted:Ok, the big picture stuff without the metaphorical bits sounds roughly like what I understood. I'd just heard some people say they were confused by Mandrakk, and aside from that initial confusion about how SB was going to tie-in, I found it to be fairly simple, it's just two stories that happen at the same time, kinda like Arkham City. I also want to say that I really like Nix Uotan, it's a shame we'll only see him when there's a big event going on. If you haven't yet, read Multiversity and 7 soldiers of victory. They are both better Final Crisis
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Jan 18, 2018 13:45
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I just re-read the first arc of GMo's JLA from 1997 and why didn't they just make THAT into a Justice League movie and call it a day
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Jan 18, 2018 14:24
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purple death ray posted:I just re-read the first arc of GMo's JLA from 1997 and why didn't they just make THAT into a Justice League movie and call it a day I think the White Martians would have been a perfect enemy for the first Justice League movie, and plus it would have introduced Martian Manhunter into the movie universe. In my imaginary will never be made Justice League movie, MM puts the team together because the White Martians have infiltrated all levels of earth's politics and military and are ready for invasion and only the world's heroes can stop them, but only if they work together.
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Jan 18, 2018 19:09
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Madkal posted:I think the White Martians would have been a perfect enemy for the first Justice League movie, and plus it would have introduced Martian Manhunter into the movie universe. Isn't that the pilot from the Justice League cartoon? I'd love to see MM in a drat movie (as well as in the comic too).
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Jan 18, 2018 19:13
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Neurosis posted:this wouldn't even be necessary. i cannot think there is any state in the united states where a man continually escapes, murders people, and is recaptured, tallying up hundreds if not thousands of murders, where a government wouldn't by overwhelming public acclaim introduce a death penalty and some legal mechanism to defeat the insanity defence. No, the cops would just shoot him at a certain point, Batman would stop him and leave him tied up for the cops and one of those cops would shoot him and claim he confused his taser and his gun despite them looking completely different and being stored on completely different areas of his uniform and there isn't a justification for trying to taser him in the first place since he was already completely under the control of the police and at that moment presented no danger to anyone, and the cop will spend less than a year in jail
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Jan 18, 2018 19:25
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Let's be real if a cop just straight murdered joker in front of a crowd of people they'd probably get a parade and the key to the city
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Jan 18, 2018 19:33
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Someone was talking earlier about the Joker Kill List and how he was responsible for 500 deaths, is there a link to that tally anywhere? Because I feel like he should have easily hit that in Scott Snyder's run alone. Though maybe we can't prove that the several dozen people he sewed together "while still alive" into a human tapestry ended up dying. And maybe because the battalion of cops that got rocket launchered to death by his goons he's only an accessory to those murders. Likewise maybe he's not directly responsible for the several dozen mobsters murdered and barb-wire-wrapped into church pews or the dozens of yuppies strung up drowned underneath a bridge or the dozens of Arkham employees "dumped into the incinerator" or the 20+ cops and aides poisoned while guarding the mayor. Which means he only killed 30-40 people on-panel in those six issues. And all of the casualties from when Jokerized Superman collapsed a few city blocks and later the entire population got Jokerized and razed half the city might not technically be murder charges. I'm actually kind of drawing a blank on real hardcore mass murder moments from the Joker before the New 52. He *tried* to murder the entirety of the UN General Assembly in Death in the Family, but Superman stopped him. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 19:38
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site posted:Let's be real if a cop just straight murdered joker in front of a crowd of people they'd probably get a parade and the key to the city I dunno, I’d extend the logic to say that normal thinking doesn’t apply. I’m thinking other super villains would probably murder him and his whole family, making it real unlikely anyone would ever want to be known as the person who pulled the trigger. Joker dies in custody and nobody can ever find out what really happened.
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Jan 18, 2018 19:48
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Edge & Christian posted:Someone was talking earlier about the Joker Kill List and how he was responsible for 500 deaths, is there a link to that tally anywhere? Because I feel like he should have easily hit that in Scott Snyder's run alone. Though maybe we can't prove that the several dozen people he sewed together "while still alive" into a human tapestry ended up dying. And maybe because the battalion of cops that got rocket launchered to death by his goons he's only an accessory to those murders. Likewise maybe he's not directly responsible for the several dozen mobsters murdered and barb-wire-wrapped into church pews or the dozens of yuppies strung up drowned underneath a bridge or the dozens of Arkham employees "dumped into the incinerator" or the 20+ cops and aides poisoned while guarding the mayor. Which means he only killed 30-40 people on-panel in those six issues. And all of the casualties from when Jokerized Superman collapsed a few city blocks and later the entire population got Jokerized and razed half the city might not technically be murder charges. I'm sure he killed a ton of folks during No Man's Land...but...you know...it was No Man's Land.
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Jan 18, 2018 19:52
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Jordan7hm posted:I dunno, I’d extend the logic to say that normal thinking doesn’t apply. I’m thinking other super villains would probably murder him and his whole family, making it real unlikely anyone would ever want to be known as the person who pulled the trigger. Is that true though? I thought that for the most part none of the other villains actually like joker and only tolerate him cuz they're just as scared of him as everyone else. Offing joker would be doing crime a big favor
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Jan 18, 2018 19:55
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pubic works project posted:I'm sure he killed a ton of folks during No Man's Land...but...you know...it was No Man's Land. I think the biggest crime he did in NML was kidnapping a bunch of babies and killing Gordon's wife Yes I am spoilering something from a comic that was written nearly 20 years ago but when that happened I was shocked so there.
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Jan 18, 2018 20:04
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I don’t even remember that from NML. What a forgettable story (other than the cool as hell maps of Gotham). site posted:Is that true though? I thought that for the most part none of the other villains actually like joker and only tolerate him cuz they're just as scared of him as everyone else. Offing joker would be doing crime a big favor If the cops are willing to kill the Joker, they’d be willing to kill jobbers. Just like how cops would go after cop killers even harder than normal, super villains would go after Super Villain killers.
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Jan 18, 2018 20:10
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I think we could safely say given the body count joker has that we could classify him as an exception but i see where youre coming from
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Jan 18, 2018 20:17
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Man I'm just not sure I could believe a cop killing someone in cold blood like that.
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Jan 18, 2018 20:18
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site posted:Is that true though? I thought that for the most part none of the other villains actually like joker and only tolerate him cuz they're just as scared of him as everyone else. Offing joker would be doing crime a big favor The idea of revenge killings is also handled way fast and loose in comics, while I can't imagine that many villains would look to avenge the Joker, there was a really dumb scene during Civil War under JMS where Spider-Man (whose identity was recently revealed) helps some cops foil a bank robbery and while being cuffed one of the robbers goes, "heh, hey Spider-Man I know your real name now. I know you have a wife. I know you have an aunt. I'm going to rape and murder them when I get out of jail, heh heh heh" and this is used as proof that having a public identity is a terrible idea for superheroes. Never mind that there are like six unmasked police officers with their names and badge numbers visible actually processing the criminals, many of whom also have spouses and loved ones. In real life police officers arrest people every day with their names and faces visible to the public, and I feel like an infinitesimal number of them later have their families attacked by angry criminals. But comics are dumb sometimes. Jordan7hm posted:If the cops are willing to kill the Joker, they’d be willing to kill jobbers. Just like how cops would go after cop killers even harder than normal, super villains would go after Super Villain killers.
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Jan 18, 2018 20:32
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We were discussing this as a leak in the gen chat thread, but now there's a variant cover to JLA #23 which shows off an outside character they're bringing into the DCU. It's coming out next week, so I suppose it's fair to keep spoiler tags on. It's Alan Moore's Promethea Here's the cover.  I guess whatever rift that brings her in is how we get Tom Strong for The Terrifics too. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 20:52
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Edge & Christian posted:Someone was talking earlier about the Joker Kill List and how he was responsible for 500 deaths, is there a link to that tally anywhere? Because I feel like he should have easily hit that in Scott Snyder's run alone. Though maybe we can't prove that the several dozen people he sewed together "while still alive" into a human tapestry ended up dying. And maybe because the battalion of cops that got rocket launchered to death by his goons he's only an accessory to those murders. Likewise maybe he's not directly responsible for the several dozen mobsters murdered and barb-wire-wrapped into church pews or the dozens of yuppies strung up drowned underneath a bridge or the dozens of Arkham employees "dumped into the incinerator" or the 20+ cops and aides poisoned while guarding the mayor. Which means he only killed 30-40 people on-panel in those six issues. And all of the casualties from when Jokerized Superman collapsed a few city blocks and later the entire population got Jokerized and razed half the city might not technically be murder charges. http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Joker%27s_Body_Count for pre-flashpoint http://joker.wikia.com/wiki/Joker%27s_Body_Count Post flashpoint
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Jan 18, 2018 20:52
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Edge & Christian posted:I don't really know if either of these make sense. This is another dumb 2000s Superhero thing that murder is like eating Pringles: once you pop, you can't stop! Captain America gunned down a terrorist in Gruenwald's 1980s run in order to save hundreds of people and felt kind of bad about it, but didn't put a bullet into Batroc the Leaper's head next issue when he was trying to steal some jewelry. I agree with this. I think the claim that once a protag kills one time that they will never be able to go back is a bit spurious given that these are written characters with no actual agency. I think it's possible to have a one "necessary" murder be A Big Deal and not end up turning someone into the punisher because writers don't have to go down that road if they don't want to. And that's not even getting into the debate over the nature of killing and heroism given that no one seems to mind all the killing that happens in the MCU quote:The idea of revenge killings is also handled way fast and loose in comics, while I can't imagine that many villains would look to avenge the Joker, there was a really dumb scene during Civil War under JMS where Spider-Man (whose identity was recently revealed) helps some cops foil a bank robbery and while being cuffed one of the robbers goes, "heh, hey Spider-Man I know your real name now. I know you have a wife. I know you have an aunt. I'm going to rape and murder them when I get out of jail, heh heh heh" and this is used as proof that having a public identity is a terrible idea for superheroes. Never mind that there are like six unmasked police officers with their names and badge numbers visible actually processing the criminals, many of whom also have spouses and loved ones. In real life police officers arrest people every day with their names and faces visible to the public, and I feel like an infinitesimal number of them later have their families attacked by angry criminals. But comics are dumb sometimes I'm not quiiiite as sure on this just because the example of Spider-Man is like the poster boy of hero who's family and friends get in danger because of villains knowing their identity. But I also have to grant that that's a function of the peculiarity of Peter's design in that he's pretty much the only big name hero who family and friends are majority normies and sometimes it feels like "loving with peters people" is drat near a requirement in a spidey arc site fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 21:00
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I always think of Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord and how that was dealt with for a long rear end time afterwards. Clark and Bruce were estranged for a while and she had to turn herself in to the authorities afterwards. She killed one person who left her no real choice and there were still serious consequences and she was never remotely portrayed as being more likely to kill someone else because of it.
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Jan 18, 2018 21:11
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Roth posted:Excuse you, that is not Jar Jar, that is his father George R. Binks. I wish George R. R. Binks would finish The Winds of Wampas. 
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Jan 18, 2018 21:11
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site posted:I'm not quiiiite as sure on this just because the example of Spider-Man is like the poster boy of hero who's family and friends get in danger because of villains knowing their identity. But I also have to grant that that's a function of the peculiarity of Peter's design in that he's pretty much the only big name hero who family and friends are majority normies and sometimes it feels like "loving with peters people" is drat near a requirement in a spidey arc
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Jan 18, 2018 21:15
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Edge & Christian posted:I'm not saying that [Norman Osborn/Wilson Fisk/Eddie Brock] shouldn't go after Peter's loved ones. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where a real life criminal seeks vengeance after some detective or crusading lawyer who has been a thorn in their side for years. That's not what I was talking about. This was a random, unnamed bank robber. He was doing a crime, and he got caught. This exact sort of thing happens every day in real life. I am assuming a lot here, but my guess is that most thieves when caught do not immediately start planning (mentally or verbally) to track down and torture the family of the people who caught them; in no small part because "I'll rape and murder innocent children and the elderly just to teach someone a lesson" is not a universal value held by criminals. Ah perhaps I should've edited your post to be clearer to what I was responding to, my bad. I agree I don't think Pete has much to worry about from random mook 12574, I was trying to speak towards the general idea of knowledge of hero identities by villains at large
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Jan 18, 2018 21:24
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purple death ray posted:I always think of Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord and how that was dealt with for a long rear end time afterwards. Clark and Bruce were estranged for a while and she had to turn herself in to the authorities afterwards. She killed one person who left her no real choice and there were still serious consequences and she was never remotely portrayed as being more likely to kill someone else because of it. The very next issue involved the media outing her as "murdering" Maxwell Lord and how the general public worried that she might kill them next. Two issues after that she's attacked by Cheetah and rams her opponent's head into concrete as Cheetah's narration indicates she thinks she's about to die, the issue ending with Wonder Woman standing over a prone body with all types of blood pooling around it. It's not addressed in Wonder Woman, but she's back as part of Alexander Luthor's "give the Earth a C-Section" crew in Infinite Crisis so she survived, but if you were reading WW it would be reasonable to assume that she'd killed again with no apparent concern or remorse. In the first issue of Infinite Crisis Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are arguing about whether or not she is a "murderer" and are attacked by Mongol, who Wonder Woman immediately tries to kill with her sword, angry that Batman and Superman aren't allowing her to "do what must be done". Later she pushes the Amazons to build your namesake Purple Death Ray but admittedly is not comfortable about how they're using it against innocent people possessed by OMACs (it's not clear if the purple death ray is purple killing them or just purple injuring them) and so I guess she shows some remorse there when she makes Paradise Island teleport off the Earth rather than keep killing OMACs. Then she's visited by the ghost of Earth-2 Wonder Woman who tells her Nobody's Perfect and she stops Batman from killing aforementioned C-Sectioner Alexander Luthor because killing genocidal maniacs "isn't worth it".
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Jan 18, 2018 21:40
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site posted:Ah perhaps I should've edited your post to be clearer to what I was responding to, my bad. I agree I don't think Pete has much to worry about from random mook 12574, I was trying to speak towards the general idea of knowledge of hero identities by villains at large
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Jan 18, 2018 21:47
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A major issue when discussing killing in comic books is that all killing is lumped together shamelessly and without question in conjunction with the same ol' "we have to at once acknowledge Comic Book Tropes without actually acknowledging them" bullshit. "Why does Superman need to kill" is almost always conflated with "because the villain will ESCAPE and COME BACK if he doesn't." And that very rarely makes any sense. It assumes that everyone is incompetent and has to remain incompetent and can't come up with any idea besides "easily escapable prison" and "KILL THEM." It also ignores that killing someone doesn't mean they won't come back to life as pretty much every major dead villain has at some point. It's dumb. It's a dumb argument. It never has any value. It wants to have its comic book cake and eat it too and it ends up being always nonsensical.
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Jan 18, 2018 21:50
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As I remember it the other Amazons developed the PDR on their own and Diana was horrified at the concept from the get go. I'm not going to argue that people don't write Diana as way too violent on a consistent basis though. Re: Cheetah and the publics fear that she'll kill again, that's part of the consequences I was talking about. I meant that the character herself doesn't really worry that she's going to start snapping necks left and right because she did it once, which is the "where does it stop?" attitude people usually attribute to superheros refusing to kill. Diana has a very clear line that she'll kill an enemy for and she's not afraid that she's going to do it all the time. But the reaction of others is a different story, and of course people are going to be uncomfortable around a person who just snapped a dudes neck. purple death ray fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 22:00
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Well i enjoyed Damage #1.
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Jan 18, 2018 22:52
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Honestly I blame the writers (including Snyder) for the no-kill debate. It wouldn't be a debate at all if people like Snyder weren't so interested in increasing the body count every time a character like Joker appears. There is definitely a rise in body counts per villain over the decades and it makes Batman and such seem ineffectual. It also makes it look like there is never any punishment for the crimes Joker and the like commits. Oh here is a story line of the Joker where he kills 100+ people. Batman catches him, and throws him in Arkham until the next time he escapes and kills another 100+ people. Now if it was something like Joker trying to poison the water and Batman stops him in time and throws him in Arkham that would be fine, but recent stories seem to take place after Joker succeeds and really it just ruins the Joker and Batman for me.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:00
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To be fair, Snyder never locked the Joker up. He fell off a cliff and then got in a fight with Batman to their simultaneous death*. *quote unquote
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Jan 18, 2018 23:04
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Yeah exactly, Batman should stop the Joker from killing people. This is a novel concept in modern comics but I promise it makes both characters more palatable
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Jan 18, 2018 23:14
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Mr Hootington posted:If you haven't yet, read Multiversity and 7 soldiers of victory. They are both better Final Crisis Already got Multiversity, but it looks like 7 Soldiers is out of print? I think there's an omnibus coming up at some point, but I'd rather not. Maybe I'll get lucky and one of my local comic shops have copies. Read Omega Men too, and it was really good, although from how people here were talking I expected a little more than "colonialism is bad, and war makes monsters of men." I think my only real issue is that the end and "where are they now" was a bit on the nose.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:32
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catlord posted:Already got Multiversity, but it looks like 7 Soldiers is out of print? I think there's an omnibus coming up at some point, but I'd rather not. Maybe I'll get lucky and one of my local comic shops have copies. If you don't mind digital, it is on comixology.
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Jan 19, 2018 00:27
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You can get all four trades on eBay for $30 total
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Jan 19, 2018 01:04
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I read this week's Batman, and it was really good, so uh, yeah.
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Jan 19, 2018 01:12
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The only reasonable in-universe motivation for superheroes not wanting to kill villains is that magic is confirmed to exist and the only thing worse than Joker now is Joker once he's gone to Hell, gained demonic powers, and forced his way back to life.
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Jan 19, 2018 02:49
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