|
Alaois posted:I feel like Griffin massively misread the intentions behind Monster of the Week, a game where some of the base playbook choices are things like "a literal divine warrior", "a half-man, half-monster who has chosen to fight for good", "an acolyte of an ancient order dedicated to fighting monsters" and such, each with a plethora of options when it comes to weaponry and monster killing goodness, and says "okay none of you have guns or are an established monster hunting team"
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 15:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 18:09 |
|
|
He's using a one-off miniarc to playout an origin story that, in a normal game of MotW, would have been established during character creation when the players were doing their history with one another, and I think that's kind of bobo, because I would actually be interested in this series if it were more true to the heart of MotW
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 15:52
|
|
|
I do think both Commitment and especially Amnesty would have been better served starting in media res. though arguably the origin story is an important part of a superhero thing, so I could be talked out of Commitment.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
and now having listened to both currently uploaded episodes of Amnesty does Griff know he wasn't supposed to use the playbooks to make NPCs?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 16:14
|
|
|
Not Operator posted:I do think both Commitment and especially Amnesty would have been better served starting in media res. Agree. I’m bummed it’s been 2 eps and the characters haven’t met yet. And when they do meet, they’ll be meeting for the first time, which is the boringest way to do a scene. I’ll hope to be surprised but I’m not in love with amnesty so far. Which is ok! TAZ has always been a podcast about taking risks and part of that is that it isn’t always gold
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 16:23
|
|
|
i'm good with the prologue nature of these past two episodes, especially since it's a weekly release schedule. I'm very happy to hear the boys and dad are way more invested in their characters and the story, and I hope they just end up doing this cast and world for their next big arc, or at least go long as hell with this one.
DeNomolos fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jan 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
ChuckDeNomolos posted:i'm good with the prologue nature of these past two episodes, especially since it's a weekly release schedule. I'm very happy to hear the boys and dad are way more invested in their characters and the story, and I hope they just end up doing this cast and world for their next big arc, or at least go long as hell with this one. This I would be fine with, tbh, a lot of my issue comes from the understanding that this is supposed to just be a short one-off campaign before they just move on to the next one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:15
|
|
|
Have they said that they’re planning to take one of the short arcs and make it the next big one if it works out? I had been under the impression that they already knew what season 2 was going to be, and all these short arcs were going to be short for sure. I wouldn’t mind the prologue nature except that I know that the adventure is going to be a short one-off; I feel like if you’re going to do a short one, you should jump right into it rather than spending extended amounts of time building the backlog or trying to establish rich complicated personalities for your character that’s only going to be in like 5 episodes and then go away forever (lookin at you, Nadia jones) I dunno, I’m still gonna tune in every week and look forward to it, but this is the internet and I have ~~opinions~~
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:24
|
|
|
These mini-arcs are basically pilots. When they’re all done, they’ll decide which one to carry on into a full arc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:26
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:Have they said that they’re planning to take one of the short arcs and make it the next big one if it works out? I had been under the impression that they already knew what season 2 was going to be, and all these short arcs were going to be short for sure. I thought they said they were gonna do a bunch of short arcs and then they'd pick what they thought was the best one to continue
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:26
|
|
|
Alaois posted:This I would be fine with, tbh, a lot of my issue comes from the understanding that this is supposed to just be a short one-off campaign before they just move on to the next one. would not be surprised if they want this breathe and take longer because they actually enjoy it more than Clint trying to learn in three episodes and only finally getting the hang of it in the end right as he's done. then again, i don't find any of this boring one bit and i'm not sure i really need the dynamic of tres horny boys in this arc, especially with how grounded two of the characters are. for comparison, i hated commitment until the third episode, and even then i put off listening to it until I'd cleared out the other podcasts I needed to listen to. griffin and travis whiffed pretty badly in that and clint didn't find his stride till the final episode when he finally got to full clint with the King of America stuff. it's week to week now, and I expect Griffin's inability to keep things short is going to effect this one. I'm also not sitting around, just going nuts for the next arc because I don't know anything about what's planned ahead, if there is one. also, keep in mind what a short arc is compared to TAZ proper. DeNomolos fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jan 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:28
|
|
|
I am really enjoying the arc so far, with the expectation that the beginning is gonna be slow and Griffin-narrating-heavy, especially with the weekly releases. I also expected the PCs to meet up this episode, but I still enjoyed it a lot and that just made me look forward to next week more, and also I like the camera direction stuff???? When I listen to or read fiction I'm always picturing it in detail in my head, so it fits pretty seamlessly for me. I can see how it'd be a little jarring, though. I'm not a huge fan of Aubrey compared to the other two, but I think she'll be better when interacting with them. Ned is definitely my favorite, though the way Justin is playing Duck is still excellent. I would def be a fan of this becoming the Next Big Campaign. e: also I loving love the theme song.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:28
|
|
|
Doing the pilot episode of a weekly monster-fighting tv series does not seem like some inherent failure of the gang to grasp how the game should be played, it's probably just better suited to a multi-"episode" arc than a one-off. That's something that might be more obvious in retrospect but that's the whole point of doing these experimental arcs, and there's only a couple weeks left of this one - there's plenty of time to learn from what didn't work here. And yeah, I think part of the problem is that the system is a bad match for the group. Which isn't a knock against these more dice-light narrative systems for what they are, but I think a lot of people do seize on them as inherently more creative without fully considering the tradeoff. Judge Schnoopy's critique is pretty fair that Griffin has kept them on pretty tight rails so far, but part of what D&D did give them was clearly defined abilities and powers to buck those rails. Many of the key moments in TAZ were the result of creative and unexpected use of their mechanically defined powers to go against what Griffin had planned (Arms Outstretched being a classic example of half-mechanics, half-improv), but in this environment they lack the same sort of tools, so they're up against a pretty strong headwind from Griffin with only their willingness to argue against him as a means to redirect the flow. Again, this doesn't mean the system is bad, but it might not be a good fit for the idiosyncrasies of this group. Maybe these experiments will help them reveal and address some of these issues. Also thebardyspoon of course punishing a PC for having character traits you find annoying by hunting for reasons they can mechanically suffer for them is a dick move and people will tell you as such if you go looking for validation on it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:31
|
|
|
In Aubrey's case though I can't think of a plausible reason her character traits wouldn't be annoying to basically any npc she came across, and there should be consequences for that. "Here's a carrot for your little friend" "Excuse me that's DOCTOR Harris Bonkers" "ok nevermind gently caress you"
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:35
|
|
|
I'm really enjoying the show but I'm just assuming they're not trying to do the first season of the show. It's a more focused story over a loosy goosy goofs show.It's fun, just different.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:38
|
|
|
Stroop There It Is posted:I am really enjoying the arc so far, with the expectation that the beginning is gonna be slow and Griffin-narrating-heavy, especially with the weekly releases. I also expected the PCs to meet up this episode, but I still enjoyed it a lot and that just made me look forward to next week more, and also I like the camera direction stuff???? When I listen to or read fiction I'm always picturing it in detail in my head, so it fits pretty seamlessly for me. I can see how it'd be a little jarring, though. Conceptually, Ned is my favourite too. He feels very believable. Like, the idea that he smugly bought a car just for its superior trunk space is clearly based on a real person, possibly Clint himself. I say conceptually just because he hasn't had much to do yet, but a conman who settled into a job where he charges admission to see a real genuine skunk ape tooth is so good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:39
|
|
|
Al Borland Corp. posted:In Aubrey's case though I can't think of a plausible reason her character traits wouldn't be annoying to basically any npc she came across, and there should be consequences for that. Because NPCs want things from the PCs and will put up with them to get those things for the sake of the story. It'd be a really awful story to go "Oh yeah, you're character is too quirky and no one likes you anymore so you don't get to interact with anyone".
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:41
|
|
|
Ariong posted:These mini-arcs are basically pilots. When they’re all done, they’ll decide which one to carry on into a full arc. Ah my bad then, I must have missed that. Well whatever they go with, I hope they pick an arc where Travis remembers that it’s ok for characters to enjoy working with a group. It’s a pet peeve of mine when a PC’s main trait is being rude or condescending to the rest of the team and I did not like Nadia jones at all tbh. On a longer arc I imagine it would reach a moment of her realizing “actually, friendship is important after all” but for me, it’s more fun when everyone’s at least trying to be a team player right out of the gate
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
Al Borland Corp. posted:In Aubrey's case though I can't think of a plausible reason her character traits wouldn't be annoying to basically any npc she came across, and there should be consequences for that. An older woman who goes by Mama might be charmed by a young woman in over her head who sticks stubbornly by her stage persona as a source of identity, in that sort of "Sure kid, here's a carrot for Dr. Bonkers" way. If she's den mother to an inn full of monsters she's probably used to a few quirks. Also we didn't get to see what monster the snowboard dude is so I'm going to guess he's Frosty.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:52
|
|
|
Dolash posted:Judge Schnoopy's critique is pretty fair that Griffin has kept them on pretty tight rails so far, but part of what D&D did give them was clearly defined abilities and powers to buck those rails. Many of the key moments in TAZ were the result of creative and unexpected use of their mechanically defined powers to go against what Griffin had planned (Arms Outstretched being a classic example of half-mechanics, half-improv), but in this environment they lack the same sort of tools, so they're up against a pretty strong headwind from Griffin with only their willingness to argue against him as a means to redirect the flow. Again, this doesn't mean the system is bad, but it might not be a good fit for the idiosyncrasies of this group. Maybe these experiments will help them reveal and address some of these issues. i like this one-off so far but i agree with you about the mechanics. it seems like since the large majority of rolls are always going to be either failures, where the GM has complete control of the narrative outcome, or mixed successes, where he has basically as much control as he wants (while giving the player something they want), the system is really biased towards pushing the pre-written narrative forward.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:02
|
|
|
ekeog posted:i like this one-off so far but i agree with you about the mechanics. it seems like since the large majority of rolls are always going to be either failures, where the GM has complete control of the narrative outcome, or mixed successes, where he has basically as much control as he wants (while giving the player something they want), the system is really biased towards pushing the pre-written narrative forward. this is an issue of GMing, not of the system. realistically there shouldn't BE a pre-written narrative, but a collaborative story the GM and players build together. PbtA gives the players a vast amount of narrative freedom that they should be allowed to exercise
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:08
|
|
|
Fred Brooks's classic The Mythical Man-Month talks about the "second-system effect". Basically, when you build your first major system -- in Brooks's day it was an OS -- you're trying to get it right enough to work, and it does work, and all is joy. On your second system you plan to do everything you didn't get to do in the first system, and rethink the things you never were happy with in the first system, and maybe rewrite the design just to make it more flexible, and it is deeply, deeply awful. Brooks argues that you should never hire somebody working on their second system; either first, or third and later. I think The Adventure Zone is on its second system, with four individual people all doing their second system. The balance arc pretty much worked, with a slow startup time and players working their way into the rules and their characters. Each new arc is "I'm going to get it RIGHT this time, only better!" and it's worse. In particular, Griffin needs to stop doing single-player interludes and let the boys riff off each other.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:20
|
|
|
Al Borland Corp. posted:In Aubrey's case though I can't think of a plausible reason her character traits wouldn't be annoying to basically any npc she came across, and there should be consequences for that. i think it makes sense for the monster woman who is essentially treating her like a child that is about to get told something really heavy to play along and be nice about it. I think the character has more quirks rather than depth, but i also expect when an NPC says, "gently caress off with the bunny poo poo," they will get immediately lit on fire because travis is setting her up kind of as a childish sociopath, mostly because of his style of play rather than intention. Griffin making the hotel guests say, "whoa, what the gently caress," to the, "i hate that guy," comment was a decent demonstration of that. Duck and Ned feel very grounded and more real, and it makes Aubrey come off as a lame CW show character. Dolash posted:Also we didn't get to see what monster the snowboard dude is so I'm going to guess he's Frosty. the "yet-ayyyyyy" DeNomolos fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jan 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:20
|
|
|
In Travis' defense the game was pitched as a lame cw show.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:29
|
|
|
I find it funny that Travis took so much inspiration from the Harry Dresden books that he ended up making... Molly Carpenter, perhaps without realizing it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
ChuckDeNomolos posted:i'm good with the prologue nature of these past two episodes, especially since it's a weekly release schedule. I'm very happy to hear the boys and dad are way more invested in their characters and the story, and I hope they just end up doing this cast and world for their next big arc, or at least go long as hell with this one. Ainsley McTree posted:Have they said that they’re planning to take one of the short arcs and make it the next big one if it works out? I had been under the impression that they already knew what season 2 was going to be, and all these short arcs were going to be short for sure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:36
|
|
|
Seems like the arrangement they came to was to still record bi-weekly, but have the sessions last longer and cut them up to release weekly. That's probably why stuff is dragging a bit in these first two as they figure out how to properly pace for that schedule.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 19:06
|
|
|
The goal of the weekly episodes was to get through the mini arcs faster so they weren't experimenting through July. Griffin has taken the extra weekly episodes and included more setup and backstory, which means he'll likely use up twice as many episodes as Clint got and they'll still be experimenting through July. I will certainly not complain about more content, I just think it's a little crappy that Clint got four episodes to tell his story and Griffin hasn't even brought the group together in three.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 19:23
|
|
|
Little unfair to include the setup episode for Griffin and not for Clint, but yeah Griffin should absolutely have had them meet up by the end of the 2nd session, even if it was only them being introduced to each other as the end of episode stinger.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 19:33
|
|
|
Oh poo poo that's my bad, I honestly thought Commitment had a setup and then three episodes and not four. But then still, not including the setup episodes Griffin has burned half the time that Clint had for solo exposition. And I honestly truly 110% believe Griffin will fly past 4 episodes without a blink. I thought it was really odd in the ad spot that Griffin said he had no advertisers for this week. Is that because it's an off-week and they haven't sold the ad space yet? I really hope they're not losing advertisers, and I can't imagine it would happen that quickly. But it's worrisome when they do an hour of content and don't cash in.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 20:14
|
|
|
Alaois posted:this is an issue of GMing, not of the system. That still leaves open that it's a problem of a GM and a system not being a good match. Neither have to be "bad" to be badly suited for each other, whether a given game group/session clicks is reliant on a lot of X-factors. Especially given the constraints of the podcast format where they're looking to keep the content in useable, high-content hour-long chunks, some of the more freeform collaboration elements might not be a good fit when Griffin's natural inclination is to plot things out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 20:55
|
|
|
Dolash posted:That still leaves open that it's a problem of a GM and a system not being a good match. Neither have to be "bad" to be badly suited for each other, whether a given game group/session clicks is reliant on a lot of X-factors. Especially given the constraints of the podcast format where they're looking to keep the content in useable, high-content hour-long chunks, some of the more freeform collaboration elements might not be a good fit when Griffin's natural inclination is to plot things out. Pbta isn't going to be great for a GM whose inclination is to treat mixed success as "I narrate the scene and let you have a thing" instead of "you narrate the scene and I add a complication," yeah. The system also works a lot better when the players are together and can help each other or take multiple angles at getting something to work.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 21:04
|
|
|
Judge Schnoopy posted:But Griffin has already written the story and he's not letting anybody else play, except to be actors on his stage. This sums it up pretty perfectly for me. There was a noticeable shift in the Balance arc as soon as Griffin started drawing things together and figuring out how it all connected and where it was going. Now he's basically started this arc from that same place. He's not GMing, he's just guiding the characters through this (admittedly cool) narrative that he's created. Griffin needs to get out of his own way and relinquish some of the control.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 21:32
|
|
|
Draxion posted:Pbta isn't going to be great for a GM whose inclination is to treat mixed success as "I narrate the scene and let you have a thing" instead of "you narrate the scene and I add a complication," yeah. yeah, this is really what i was trying to get at - there's nothing wrong with the system, but I don't think it's a great fit for Griffin's style because it may allow him to indulge in his bad habits a little too much.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 21:33
|
|
|
Judge Schnoopy posted:I thought it was really odd in the ad spot that Griffin said he had no advertisers for this week. Is that because it's an off-week and they haven't sold the ad space yet? I really hope they're not losing advertisers, and I can't imagine it would happen that quickly. But it's worrisome when they do an hour of content and don't cash in. I bet they have TAZ set up as a bi-weekly ad feature, and this was an "off-week" episode so to speak. There weren't any ads for the set-up epiode either.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 21:42
|
|
|
I’d be blown away if they were having trouble with sponsors. The TAZ brand is pretty hot right now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 21:44
|
|
|
Mikey Purp posted:This sums it up pretty perfectly for me. There was a noticeable shift in the Balance arc as soon as Griffin started drawing things together and figuring out how it all connected and where it was going. Now he's basically started this arc from that same place. He's not GMing, he's just guiding the characters through this (admittedly cool) narrative that he's created. Griffin needs to get out of his own way and relinquish some of the control. Ugh, that's frustrating. On the one hand I absolutely wanna see what he had in mind, on the other hand in my experience half the fun in a D&D campaign has been getting the GM to keep up as you take things in a slightly different direction. Let the players play, and just let us know what you originally had planned later.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 21:45
|
|
|
Imagine complaining about a podcast not having enough ads
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 21:47
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:Imagine complaining about a podcast not having enough ads i need to know which fresh new meals Blue Apron has this week
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 21:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 18:09 |
|
|
i like amnesty so far and am optimistic for the character meetup in next week’s episode namaste
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 21:52
|
|
