|
US is in the lead of adding a lesbian for sweeps and then killing them off sure
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 17:22 |
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:US is in the lead of adding a lesbian for sweeps and then killing them off sure I mean you can just be Japan and not have any lesbians but instead pretend the girls are That trope does need to die in western media, it's been around since pulp lesbian fiction of the mid 20th century.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 16:57
|
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:The gay subtext in Devilman isn't even subtext. It's the text. This is a really bad basis for assuming characters are gay, and I don't even disagree that Akira and Ryo are gay for each other. You've basically just described what a family is like. When it really comes down to it, Akira doesn't need Ryo, it's the other way around. What Akira needed was to maintain a relationship with the one person in the world who understands him better than anyone else, and that's Miki. Ryo needs Akira because he's the only person who ever accepted and loved Ryo for who he was, even in spite of being a weird sociopath - and he can't understand why Akira would be so sentimental about anyone else because he's incapable of empathy until it's too late. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jan 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 16:59
|
|
|
C-SPAN Caller posted:I mean you can just be Japan and not have any lesbians but instead pretend the girls are Sure if you just ignore the shows with actual gay characters in
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:02
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:Sure if you just ignore the shows with actual gay characters in Lol yuri media is heavily for a straight male audience, and if anything is even less now than what it was then. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:07
|
|
|
as a gay,
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:09
|
|
|
i wish they didnt make ryo such a nerd
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:11
|
|
|
Satan has a feminine penis, I'm sure all we fellow straights can agree that Devilman Crybaby may in fact be the straightest show of the season.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:16
|
|
|
Is Satan a top or bottom though
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
Cheap Diner Coffee posted:as a gay, Straights ruin everything
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:18
|
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:The gay subtext in Devilman isn't even subtext. It's the text.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:20
|
|
|
C-SPAN Caller posted:Is Satan a top or bottom though Both. Neither. All at once.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:22
|
|
|
also maybe this is a fraught hill to take but it makes me uncomfortable that the two/three gay/bi men in the show are not questioned but the single lesbian/bi woman is to the point of throwing out lgbt interpretations entirely or interpreting her as a trans man
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:23
|
|
|
dogsicle posted:also maybe this is a fraught hill to take but it makes me uncomfortable that the two/three gay/bi men in the show are not questioned but the single lesbian/bi woman is to the point of throwing out lgbt interpretations entirely or interpreting her as a trans man Well considering one of the gay men literally has anal sex with another man for 30 seconds of screen time and the "lesbians" have very little subtext to go off of, of course nobody would question it If Miko and Miki kissed or confessed I wouldn't question it. It's subtext at best to find anything about then as gay, and mostly wishful projection by lgbt people starved in general by media for relatable lgbt characters.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:29
|
|
|
did you black out during episode 9 or something
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:30
|
|
|
dogsicle posted:also maybe this is a fraught hill to take but it makes me uncomfortable that the two/three gay/bi men in the show are not questioned but the single lesbian/bi woman is to the point of throwing out lgbt interpretations entirely or interpreting her as a trans man The real problem I have with people claiming that this or that character is gay or bi, is that it's wrong to project identities onto people which they haven't made explicit themselves. You should trust others to demonstrate their own personal truths, and you have to be willing to accept and love them for whatever they are regardless of whatever biases you may be conditioned to have. It's fine if you want to read Miko as gay or bi, but I disagree with it because the only person who should be deciding that is Miko. Making interpretative assumptions about people based on vague evidence is a prejudice, and deciding things on false assumptions can be literally world ending. It's nobody's place to definitively decide on a matter of somebody else's identity. Everything is questionable without being made explicit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:31
|
|
|
I'm so tired
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:32
|
|
|
Cheap Diner Coffee posted:did you black out during episode 9 or something No I just realize you can love your friends without wanting to sleep with them
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:33
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:
you do know anime isn't real right
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:36
|
|
|
I, for one, would hate to risk diverging from the default and correct state of straightness.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:36
|
|
|
this thread made me turn into a devilman, but one of the ones who side with psycho jennyCheap Diner Coffee posted:as a gay,
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:36
|
|
|
Devilman is an exploration of repressed feelings, and concludes that you can explore those and still be a good person. Crybaby putting so much gay stuff in that mix is extremely good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:37
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:Straights ruin everything
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:37
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:The real problem I have with people claiming that this or that character is gay or bi, is that it's wrong to project identities onto people which they haven't made explicit themselves. You should trust others to demonstrate their own personal truths, and you have to be willing to accept and love them for whatever they are regardless of whatever biases you may be conditioned to have. It's fine if you want to read Miko as gay or bi, but I disagree with it because the only person who should be deciding that is Miko. Making interpretative assumptions about people based on vague evidence is a prejudice, and deciding things on false assumptions can be literally world ending. This show was super explicit with sexualities not named Miko and Miki, it seems weird yo to downplay the supposed lesbians in a show with gay love making in it and a long loving monologue from intersex Satan to Akira
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:38
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:The real problem I have with people claiming that this or that character is gay or bi, is that it's wrong to project identities onto people which they haven't made explicit themselves. You should trust others to demonstrate their own personal truths, and you have to be willing to accept and love them for whatever they are regardless of whatever biases you may be conditioned to have. It's fine if you want to read Miko as gay or bi, but I disagree with it because the only person who should be deciding that is Miko. Making interpretative assumptions about people based on vague evidence is a prejudice, and deciding things on false assumptions can be literally world ending. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jan 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:41
|
|
|
Coding exists in media for a reason. There's a lot of space in between being explicitly stated and people just projecting/shipping/what have you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:44
|
|
|
Satan made them all gay.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:45
|
|
|
On a scale of shipping to butt loving on screen, I rate Miko and Miki a 2, maybe a 3
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:46
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:This is the way you should treat real people, but I feel like it misses the point of art to the degree that you're basically asking people to not actually engage with the show (At least in terms of the character's sexual orientations). Miko is a fictional character and presented in specific ways, there's no ethical concerns in trying to understand how this fictional character has been coded. I'm not asking anyone to not engage with the show, I'm trying to engage with why people assume sexual orientations in the first place, and whether those assumptions are based on reasonable facts. I'm not even saying a trans reading of Miko is definitively true, it's all open to interpretation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:47
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:The gay subtext in Devilman isn't even subtext. It's the text. Opening a  , but the text of this show is also the book of Revelations/Apocalypse, and combining the two gives this sense of "hmm, the strong queer relationships here represented in this show by devilmen or the damned, and God wipes them all out for a reset"  Like maybe this show isn't the best queer hill to die on.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 17:54
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Miki and her family are the biggest improvement in adaption from the source material, and making Miki the moral core of the show really elevates the true emotional climax - and you know what I'm talking about. The Mayuta look-alike in the shop was supposed to be Koda? I thought it was possessed Mayuta. I didn't have a problem keeping them apart otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:00
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:Opening a You could probably make the case that Ryo not accepting his love for Akira is what led to the Earth being destroyed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:03
|
|
|
I mean, yes, you could read it that way, sure. Or you could read it that being gay is what taught Satan that love was real, that the characters who engage in homosexual relations are the most human and likable and are punished by a mindless mob and uncaring God for doing so, that the cycle will continue regardless and that gay love is as strong or stronger than whatever an absent God wants to happen, no matter now many times They purge the earth, Ryo and Akira will be there doing gay twirly hugs on the dock. I would say one of the things I like Devilman Crybaby is that it lets the gays be messy. They aren't pure flawless characters, they gently caress up and poo poo gets out of hand because gay people are people and people are fallible and love makes you completely stupid sometimes. Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:03
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:Opening a God is the true villain of Devilman, so it's not that straightforward. Satan is after all one of God's own creations, and was basically made to be an unquestioning sociopath. The fact that Satan dares to question God's judgement at all exposes the inherent contradiction in its claim to divinity. Lurking Haro posted:The Mayuta look-alike in the shop was supposed to be Koda? I thought it was possessed Mayuta. I didn't have a problem keeping them apart otherwise. it's not made clear until several episodes later, but Miko keeps Mayuta's bodyparts in her apartment as a keepsake and wears his shades. You can clearly see the fingers with "fly" tattooed on them. Mayuta was a really underserved character who deserved a bit more screentime, but they were squeezing so much in to 10 episodes already that even Zenon gets short changed. Expect My Mom posted:I would say one of the things I like Devilman Crybaby is that it lets the gays be messy. They aren't pure flawless characters, they gently caress up and poo poo gets out of hand because gay people are people and people are fallible and love makes you completely stupid sometimes. Koda specifically has an incentive to join the demons because there's no one left for him to love but himself. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jan 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:09
|
|
Ethiser posted:You could probably make the case that Ryo not accepting his love for Akira is what led to the Earth being destroyed. Or that Satan by definition is so narcissistic that he is not able to correctly interpret or accept God's definition of love, hence the whole Lucifer to Satan fall in the first place, and what we see through the show is an extension of that. Like even looking at the last scene, does that look like anything close to a healthy relationship or mindset? Ryo seems to be ignoring and rejecting reality hardcore to be wrapped up in his own world. In other words: Satan, dying at the end of the apocalypse: I've finally done it, I understand love, and my gay bro here Akira is the proof of my newfound truth! God: *smdh while resetting the world for the 645,772nd time* nope, you still don't get it
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:32
|
|
|
fursonally i think this anime is about everyone relentlessly pushing sexuality on the noble asexual. when someone turns demon its society's pressure to gently caress taking over. the devilmen walk the path between the proud asexual and the dangerous sexhaver: the aromantic
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:38
|
|
|
the word miki and miko or whatever their names are use for love is the literal romantic word for love, using it for someone you don't love romantically would be super weird and strange. they're gay. they're in love with each other. that is the literal text of the piece. they say they love each other. because they are gay. they turn to each other and use a word, that a japanese person would never use for saying they love someone like a friend. there are a very few contexts where you might use it for platonic love, like if you were goofing around and exaggerating how much you love someone, but that is clearly not the context of the scene. the scene is dramatic and meaningful and the characters know they're having a deep conversation, using the words and phrases they used for platonic love in that context would make negative sense. every aspect of the scene is framed as a romantic confession.C-SPAN Caller posted:If Miko and Miki kissed or confessed I wouldn't question it. It's subtext at best to find anything about then as gay, and mostly wishful projection by lgbt people starved in general by media for relatable lgbt characters. you're a literal bastard and every word you've said in this thread has made my blood boil, please never post again. Endorph fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jan 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
Satan finally realizing his love for Akira then trying to reconcile what he just did is a real good use of irony, imo And god blowing everything the gently caress up really seals how pyrrhic his victory was
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
For the record, this is all for the sake of debate, my personal interpretation of the show is Breaking the False Dichotomy of Otherism. So how to deal with the "you're either with us or with them" mentality, structured around the concept "what if there was a third party perspective to the apocalypse?" and tackling the social issue of the demonization of LGBT. Unfortunately the message kinda fell apart in the end into this awkward combination of texts I've described. I'm quick to blame insufficient editing and storyboarding.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 17:22 |
|
|
the use of the words and phrases they use in that scene in half-joking contexts are part of the excuse a lot of 'yuribait' type shows do use. a super excitable girl hugging her 'best friend' and saying how much she loves her while bouncing up and down, you can excuse that as her being goofy and weird because it's not in a serious context with dramatic weight. by placing the scene in the context crybaby does, it literally invalidates one of the most common excuses people use to say they're not really gay.C-SPAN Caller posted:Lol yuri media is heavily for a straight male audience, and if anything is even less now than what it was then.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 18:50
|
|