|
NihilCredo posted:these can be valid complaints but if they follow up with "and that's why dockerfiles use their own special format" it's like bitching that the 2-michelin-star cook oversalted your salmon steak so you'd rather scavenge a dead trout from the riverbed after a drought - json it's ambiguous as hell on how some unicode is handled. it doesn't offer complete range of floating point byte order marks make it poo poo itself duplicate keys are a thing - yaml i really meant the whole 'safe' thing, like, do you need to be using an object persistence format for your formats like with c++, everyone sticks to a subset the most consistent way to have your yaml parsed is using json on/off, c'mon. sexagesimals? - toml i wrote an incredibly pedantic list already about how well thought out toml was. most of them got fixed. eventually, two years later, someone else convinced him '.' was a valid character and like git's config format, mashed in support in an ad-hoc manner the biggest user of toml had to make several incompatible changes upstreamed to toml to get it to be useful to them - xml well, yes because i write svg by hand too let me just escape everthing as utf-8 percent encoded hex pairs complete overkill also lol if you think these are 2-star formats sorry
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 23:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 15:49 |
|
|
dockerfiles are hilarously bad from concept to execution so i guess if you want to complain about the specifics, sure
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 23:46
|
|
|
Brain Candy posted:the problem with thinking of computers as giant state machines that transition instantenously between wholely known states is that abstraction does not hold when you have two points of view What the gently caress? This has absolutely nothing to do with special relativity.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 23:54
|
|
|
redleader posted:how often are you editing configs that the syntax of json or xml is a significant concern? most of the UI is dynamically generated by parsing a series of XML config files that lay out how it's supposed to look and act every time a change is made to the UI, it has to be added to at least one of the XML files as well. if it fails to parse for some reason, most of the UI just doesn't show up naturally, the code that parses and processes it is 100% vanilla javascript
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2018 23:55
|
|
|
comedyblissoption posted:IDK what alternatives you are thinking about, but Java/C# programmers love to fool themselves into thinking they are avoiding global variables with cargo cult patterns while using them everywhere ironically, lots of people cargo cult the "global variables bad" thing without really understanding it. but boy does it make them feel smarter than those idiot java programmers and their dependency injection! global variables are not bad just because a paper from the 70s says they are. they're bad for a small number of explicitly quantifiable reasons. and those reasons don't apply when you're using a well-designed interface to interact with global mutable state.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 00:06
|
|
|
Colonel Taint posted:What the gently caress? This has absolutely nothing to do with special relativity. newtonian mechanics and classical electromagnetism are dead, didn't you hear? useless loving garbage, all of it. if you don't account for time dilation when going to the grocery store, you're an imbecile. i attach clocks to everything in my house
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 00:10
|
|
|
the problem isn't global state, it's disorganized global state of which DI can make some incredible horrors quite feasible
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 00:43
|
|
|
you may hate it now, but some day soon -- when the world bank abolishes wage inequality, when the perfection of surveillance denies criminals any safe haven, when international peacekeepers march into your city and disarm the untrustworthy, when the council of elders at last brings an end to the divisive elections that are destabilising the very foundations of your society -- soon, when the burden of liberty is lifted from your shoulders, you will learn to praise the global state, everlasting and immutable
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 00:59
|
|
|
Colonel Taint posted:What the gently caress? This has absolutely nothing to do with special relativity. maybe they're alluding to the smartest answer on stack overflow, in which a question on the c++ memory model is answered by bastardising special relativity
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 01:07
|
|
|
i got the sun ultra 60 and popped in the DUAL CPU MODULES i bought off ebay for $8 each holy poo poo piss is this thing blazing fast compared to the ultra 10
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 01:16
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:i got the sun ultra 60 and popped in the DUAL CPU MODULES i bought off ebay for $8 each i was not kidding at all about the u10's problems with ide your u10 was almost the same system under the sheets, except, encumbered with the worst disk controller chip ever made. edit: if you really want to go balls to the wall, buy a scsi2sd card, because 1990s scsi drives tend to have lousy performance unless they sound like a fuckin jet engine
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 01:30
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:i was not kidding at all about the u10's problems with ide i have one in my amiga. don't really want to pull it though. however, the Official Sun Microsystems SATA controller I bought is a low-profile PCI card and doesn't fit in the frame 
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 01:40
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:however, the Official Sun Microsystems SATA controller I bought is a low-profile PCI card and doesn't fit in the frame just take the metal tab off of it then the edge connector should be enough
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 01:40
|
|
|
one of the local computer shops has an amiga in the window. wonder if it’s for sale...
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 01:43
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:just take the metal tab off of it then ...of course. i thought of that. totally did and i'm not getting a pair of pliers right now. https://twitter.com/LuigiThirty/status/954515756783423488
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 01:50
|
|
|
redleader posted:maybe they're alluding to the smartest answer on stack overflow, in which a question on the c++ memory model is answered by bastardising special relativity Ah yes, using special relativity to make C++ understandable to us common folk. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 01:51
|
|
|
a database is nothing but a pile of global mutable state
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 02:50
|
|
|
FAT32 SHAMER posted:I just read a quick and dirty article comparing react native and swift performance and some how RN beat swift out in 2 out of three categories The dude only just learned Swift, and was only able to cobble together an app by copy/pasting from instructional videos. He even admits that he doesn’t know what all of the code does. Not really sure that’s the best comparison.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 02:57
|
|
|
Colonel Taint posted:Ah yes, using special relativity to make C++ understandable to us common folk. i'll admit i've never seen that before. i don't know if that makes you think better or less of me
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 03:04
|
|
|
like i'm saiyan that if something is spacially distant, your knowledge of the state of the thing is implicitly stale; you don't have direct access to the the thing you don't need special relativity to get that far if you think that hey, your messages between parts have a propagation delay. but special relativity does confrim that if you have thing A and thing B, the only way to get them to agree about fact C is to send messages (or rely on preshared information, i'm only putting this in so I don't get pendanted to death) and that A and B having different knowledge of state of the world is required in some cases, and neither is more correct than the other
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 03:25
|
|
|
yeah except that digital logic is kind of based on this whole idea of making sure your state stabilizes within a clock cycle before you act on it. like, you take the longest path and make sure that your signals will propagate through the whole thing despite the resistivity and capacitance of all those gates you're using. and why the gently caress are you insisting that special relativity has anything to do with this? i know i'm not really in the habit of using computers that have moving parts going at relativistic speeds relative to one another at best i could see an argument being made as to the unreliability of sending information from one point to another, but we have ways to measure that and ensure that the odds of that happening between cores on a chip or components on a bus is less than that of getting hit by lightning multiple times a day every day also you're no saiyan
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 03:48
|
|
|
Brain Candy posted:like i'm saiyan that if something is spacially distant, your knowledge of the state of the thing is implicitly stale; you don't have direct access to the the thing I mean maybe, but flip-flops and clocking, which pretty much all of modern computing is built on, ensure that you do in fact have a valid and consistent observable state at any given tic of the clock. I guess you can think of all the caching and pipelining as a dimension somewhat analagous to space (or time? gently caress I don't know) in special relativity theory, but unless you're working at the electrical level, physical space is pretty much irrelevant. Of course when you're dealing with multiple cores you have to deal with both cores having their own pipelines and state to manage but that's just part of the larger whole of the state machine that can be accounted for.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:03
|
|
|
Brain Candy posted:you don't need special relativity to get that far if you think that hey, your messages between parts have a propagation delay yeah, there's a delay between cores, so JawnV6 posted:there's state in the DRAM, there's state in the L3/L2/L1I$/L1D$, there's the MESI protocol determining what accesses are allowed by each agent, PTE's determining WB/WT behavior. these things aren't the unknowable mystic wonders you're pitching here
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:06
|
|
|
my abstraction is useful, but i can't think of any reason anyone would want any other abstraction
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:10
|
|
|
DELETE CASCADE posted:what is a database? a miserable little pile of global mutable state
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:15
|
|
|
tef posted:the problem isn't global state, it's disorganized global state
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:18
|
|
|
a useful demarcation is probably global state external to the program and global state internal to the program having unnecessary large amounts of global internal state probably means you're gonna have a bad time how much you have of global external state probably depends a lot on what you are trying to do
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:21
|
|
|
pseudorandom name posted:unix grognards are doomed to continuously reinvent the registry, badly every lovely unixy reinvention of the registry is still better than the windows registry. the entire windows ecosystem is so bad that i shoot down every resume that comes through that is windows heavy. those people don't deserve jobs (or a living wage)
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:27
|
|
|
Colonel Taint posted:I mean maybe, but flip-flops and clocking, which pretty much all of modern computing is built on, ensure that you do in fact have a valid and consistent observable state at any given tic of the clock. I guess you can think of all the caching and pipelining as a dimension somewhat analagous to space (or time? gently caress I don't know) in special relativity theory, but unless you're working at the electrical level, physical space is pretty much irrelevant. physical space is totally relevant why you have all those caches? so you don't have to take the slow trip all the way out to ram? quote:Of course when you're dealing with multiple cores you have to deal with both cores having their own pipelines and state to manage but that's just part of the larger whole of the state machine that can be accounted for. it's true in the useless sense that if you stop the computer and take a time slice you can record all the states of all the parts. since i happen execute programs on computers that do run, i have to be aware that cores have information that is hidden w.r.t. to each other
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:33
|
|
|
JawnV6 posted:christ what a yawn fest, this isn't a serious objection is it? i'm pretty sure you don't give a poo poo about what i'm talking about, you saw 'special relativity' and started frothing?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:37
|
|
|
Brain Candy posted:i'm pretty sure you don't give a poo poo about what i'm talking about, you saw 'special relativity' and started frothing? your intense handwaving over computing managed to wholly misrepresent the actual machines that we use, now i'm trying to square the ridiculous garbage you're trying to intuit on the fly about computing machines into anything sensible and you're resisting getting into any significant details the relativity thing is an interesting limitation of all potential computing machines, your hamfisted application of it notwithstanding, the first time i heard it was 1ghz/30cm and the guy got laughed out of the room
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 04:46
|
|
|
JawnV6 posted:uh, i was replying to comedyblissoption when you quoted me, but sure i'm the arrogant aggressor here i quoted you because i was agreeing with you w.r.t. to what actually happens in computers? and because someone was doing the 'c-machines are how computers actually work. heap and stack, argle blargle' thing? quote:your intense handwaving over computing managed to wholly misrepresent the actual machines that we use, now i'm trying to square the ridiculous garbage you're trying to intuit on the fly about computing machines into anything sensible and you're resisting getting into any significant details i'm sorry i didn't write a white paper for you? you can read that stackoverflow post (don't), or the paper by Lamport it references if you want someone without hamhands to tell you things
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 05:00
|
|
|
MALE SHOEGAZE posted:i mean to be clear i dont actually want to do that but good to know rip u
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 05:30
|
|
|
CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:every lovely unixy reinvention of the registry is still better than the windows registry. the entire windows ecosystem is so bad that i shoot down every resume that comes through that is windows heavy. those people don't deserve jobs (or a living wage)
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
anyone who uses or, god forbid, programs computers does not contribute meaningfully to society and should be left homeless and destitute
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 05:51
|
|
|
NihilCredo posted:why do so many loving tools (both meanings) need to have their own special snowflake configuration file formats? jenkinsfiles, dockerfiles, nginx.conf, caddyfiles, poo poo.gradle, it goes on and on Example: people cargo-culting the meaning of "cargo culting"
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 06:07
|
|
|
NihilCredo posted:related: wow yeah lets make everything use xml or json what a great idea thats super smart i really wonder why no one has shoved their completely orthogonal things into that format
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 06:28
|
|
|
xslt
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 06:29
|
|
|
Peeny Cheez posted:Because nerds only feel better about their empty lives when they're out-nerding other nerds. I think this is a good time to take a time out, sit down, and celebrate prince Phillip, our lord and saviour
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 07:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 15:49 |
|
|
NihilCredo posted:related: Note too that every loving language has to reinvent their own build system and half of them make the config a loving dsl in their own lang. gently caress SBT
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2018 09:57
|
|
