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Thwomp posted:There's actually a decent chance the two year old could grow up to have a normal-ish existence (family drama and such exempted because duh). A study looking at kids in group daycare centers in the former Soviet Union and its affiliated soviet republics found kids under the age of 4 can make a return to normal averages. But the age of 4 is the real demarcation as kids older than 4 showed much more difficulty in returning to a normal baseline. One of my siblings was 3 when they were removed from their birth parents for severe abuse and neglect and 12 years later they're physically above-average but with massive behavioral and mental health issues and food-hoarding issues despite a lifetime of therapy and never having food scarcity issues again. I truly hope this kid will do better.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:26
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8 Ball posted:Is there any possible way the parents get out from under this and/or see the children again? Almost certainly not. They are likely going to prison for the rest of their lives.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:30
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I know a few people that adopted or provided services for people who adopted kids out of Romania in the 80's. Early childhood malnutrition and abuse can gently caress a kid up hard and permanantly faster than you think 
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Jan 20, 2018 00:37
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8 Ball posted:Is there any possible way the parents get out from under this and/or see the children again? I don't think that'd let them get off charges, though, since there'd be a lot of evidence already. Kids found chained up, the medical condition they were in, pictures of the house, etc. Furthermore the diaries the kids kept could be damning if they even accurately describe events at all, regardless of how they might obfuscate their emotional state. The fuckers should just plead guilty to spare their kids that one last knife, but of course they won't.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:44
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PetraCore posted:Yeah this can't be justified with 'well they were so poor, they surely weren't deliberately starving their kids to keep them small'. They absolutely were, if they'd just waste food like that out of spite. I'm gonna preface all of this by saying that I am in no way defending the parents or whatever, just in case anyone takes umbrage with the next part which is: It's really easy to think of it as just them wanting to torture the kids but more likely they bought these things because it was part of keeping up appearances with the outside world, even if whatever bizarro "rules" existed inside the house kept it away from the kids. It's still ins anely hosed up, but it's important to remember that there's something severely broken in these people's brains and there might be more going on than just wanting to be the biggest pieces of poo poo deliberately I'm not trying to call you out specifically, it's just a running thing I'm noticing that people aren't thinking any further about what happened than that and it's frustrating to read after the hundredth person ps I'm glad they will die in prison ok bye
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Jan 20, 2018 01:26
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:I'm gonna preface all of this by saying that I am in no way defending the parents or whatever, just in case anyone takes umbrage with the next part which is:
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Jan 20, 2018 01:29
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PetraCore posted:Then why would they buy toys and then keep them in the house in their boxes and not let the kids play? There was absolutely deliberate taunting going on with that, even if other factors such as keeping up appearances might have played into it. I'm glad you read that and summoned the energy for a nuh uh and thus soundly defeated me
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Jan 20, 2018 01:31
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:I'm glad you read that and summoned the energy for a nuh uh and thus soundly defeated me It's more reasonable to argue that the starvation is just an expression of abusive control, and the buying and displaying food is part of exercising that control, than it would be to conclude the parents were literally incapable of buying more food and chose to prioritize themselves (and the toddler, who might have been breastfed or something).
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Jan 20, 2018 01:37
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From the reporting on the case so far, it seems like temptation was the focus. Nobody saw the family out during the day, and it’s not like their cover would be blown if the neighbors never saw them buying cakes. I’m sure there’s some ritual religious logic behind starving kids while making them smell food, but that definitely seems like the intention with bringing food into the house. It’s like those crazy matching Prince Valiant haircuts: the point is to make them look the same. They didn’t just get that way because the parents own a flowbee. If the parents own a flowbee, it’s to make them all look like the dad.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:43
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PetraCore posted:Then why would they buy toys and then keep them in the house in their boxes and not let the kids play? There was absolutely deliberate taunting going on with that, even if other factors such as keeping up appearances might have played into it. I just immediately assumed this was the father doing the weird “adult hoarding mint condition children’s toys” that has become normalized for some reason.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:45
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Loucks posted:I just immediately assumed this was the father doing the weird “adult hoarding mint condition children’s toys” that has become normalized for some reason.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:47
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PetraCore posted:All I'm saying is from the details we have there was a pattern of behavior going on where desirable or necessary items were deliberately purchased and displayed to, but kept from, the people locked in the house. We don't have enough details to solidly conclude 'they wanted them to look like children forever because pedophiles', although the fact that the father is being charged with lewd acts on a minor does seem to support that, but I think it's also fairly problematic to conclude that 12 people starving while 3 people didn't was primarily because of poverty combined with the abusive rules and logic in the household. I don't think the parents were secretly rich or anything, but there are a lot of weird contradictory things going on with their financial situation in the details released, and people have pointed out that it's possible to keep 15 people less starved than this even on an extremely tight budget. And all I'm saying is that assuming the simplest answer because it's the easiest to process is dumb at best and dangerous at worst because it leaves you unable to deal with whatever else might have been going on and thus to use that knowledge to prevent further tragedy but no just keep stomping your feet because I threw out the idea that maybe it wasn't all about torture and they thought that what they were doing might actually be good because their brains are fuckin broken Spoilers that is the case far more often than not Edit also where did I say literally anything about poverty
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Jan 20, 2018 02:03
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:And all I'm saying is that assuming the simplest answer because it's the easiest to process is dumb at best and dangerous at worst because it leaves you unable to deal with whatever else might have been going on and thus to use that knowledge to prevent further tragedy but no just keep stomping your feet because I threw out the idea that maybe it wasn't all about torture and they thought that what they were doing might actually be good because their brains are fuckin broken
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Jan 20, 2018 03:03
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 quote:"We've limited the type of physicians that go in to see them," Uffer told ABC News. "We've used people that we knew that they could develop a bond with and trust." More details on their POW recovery program here The story has gone from that initial unnerving report of their living conditions, to new unnerving details about the considerations required for their treatment. “Make sure none of the doctors are visibly bummed out about this horrendous trauma; smiles everyone!”
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Jan 20, 2018 03:12
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The age range of these children who have only known their family must be so hard for even experienced professionals to work with. I'm glad they're being kept together. There's at least one toddler there, and other young children and adults up to 29 years old who only know each other. Their whole case is unbelievable and I hope they get the best care.
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Jan 20, 2018 03:36
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Busket Posket posted:
Not uncommon. A lot of kids from these circumstances absolutely need serene, unbothered therapists and doctors who don't seem to ever be upset, because any upset at all early on can trigger a massive fear response because it's always lead to beatings or starvation or being chained to a bed for a week in the rest of their life - even if it's sympathetic. It eases up later, usually, but it's seriously hard going early on, and there's going to be a million triggers no one's aware of to try and avoid, so making sure that the staff's demeanour isn't one of them helps to limit false positives and keep from retraumatizing the kids. As for the nurses and doctors, they can cry in the break room. Keeping it together and giving patients what they need is part of the job, and here that's caregivers who don't trigger terror. It isn't being presented that way - just a whole 'hey, patients can tell if you're bummed out' (which is true) - but the therapeutic aspect has got to be part of it.
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Jan 20, 2018 05:55
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I feel like the one with the best chance is the 17yo that escaped. She's obviously got a lot of tough to her (and maybe her siblings do to) and that can mean a whole hell of a lot in terms of recovery. I helped my mom and myself get out of a really lovely abusive situation when I was ten and managed to escape with not much more than some PTSD, self-image and anxiety issues that have managed to mostly go away on their own due to starting over in a better situation. Being in contact with the world, having friends that understand and adults you can trust can go a long way to heal. My mom has bigger mental health issues from a decade of abuse, but she's also a milder and much more timid person to begin with and I feel like that has a lot to do with it. I'm a headstrong rear end in a top hat, was always a headstrong rear end in a top hat, and hopefully the girl that escaped is too. My abuse wasn't nearly as bad as these kids, but it was still a very hosed up situation and twenty years later I only have anxiety to deal with. While some people might have problems forever maybe some of these kids will get lucky. Scathach has a new favorite as of 05:59 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 05:56
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veni veni veni posted:drat that guy is a terrible elvis impersonator Now is not the time for him to break into a rendition of All Shook Up.
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Jan 20, 2018 06:11
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MrMidnight posted:That whole situation is just so bizarre and sad. I hope the parents get their comeuppance. they won't. they can't. no amount of revenge can make up for truly damaging someone. trying just ends up damaging the person doing it.
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Jan 20, 2018 07:11
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the 17 year old who broke out is a loving badass. there's no way to really redress the balance, i think cases like this are why people like to believe there's a hell. the dad at the very least won't have a good time in prison. I don't know what things are like in womens prison.
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Jan 20, 2018 07:24
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Significantly more aggressive towards child abusers a lot of the time. Lot of women in there, even if they were or are lovely parents themselves, get super angry at other women who hurt kids.
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Jan 20, 2018 09:03
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I for one, don't condone prison violence!
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Jan 20, 2018 09:13
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In honor of page 420, read the fascinating and at times unnerving story of yosemite's dope lake. "It was darker than the inside of a cow, one diver told Setnicka. Twisted metal and wire hung like booby traps in the shallow lake. The divers recovered several bales of marijuana bobbing under the ice, which they passed back through the oil-slicked hole. A commercial diver was brought in from Fresno to try to recover the bodies, but even he couldn’t penetrate the gnarled underwater wreckage around the cockpit." https://www.mensjournal.com/features/the-legend-of-yosemites-dope-lake-w209503/ Untrustable has a new favorite as of 09:57 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 09:55
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PetraCore posted:This is if the infant is from the parents. There are some suggestions that's not necessarily the case if in a previous home the mother was never seen pregnant but they 'added a few kids' anyway, but it's just speculation It's not impossible for a woman to have children 27 years apart, but Louise Turpin would have been 47 when her youngest was born; nobody ever saw her pregnant over a period of years where she had kids; and her adult daughters sometimes went nine months at a time without leaving the house. We're well beyond the range of mere speculation here.
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Jan 20, 2018 10:43
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pookel posted:Everyone knows about the "Killing Fields," but the famine caused by Khmer Rouge policies killed even more people than they killed directly. I’m not exactly sure why, but my hometown in northern CA, about 75m north of SF itself, was not only full of the general indigenous American and those from Central and South America that CA tends to have, but also had a large Cambodian, Vietnamese and Ethiopian/Eritrean refugee and immigrant population. Most of that was largely positive and I’m thankful to have grown up around many different cultures, but sometimes children in my classes would talk about their escape from their country of origin or in bad situations, their family life at home (hey! Guess what! Trauma breeds trauma!!) and it was very enlightening/terrifying/nightmarish even as a small child. MAKE NO BABBYS has a new favorite as of 11:56 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 11:47
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Jedit posted:It's not impossible for a woman to have children 27 years apart, but Louise Turpin would have been 47 when her youngest was born; nobody ever saw her pregnant over a period of years where she had kids; and her adult daughters sometimes went nine months at a time without leaving the house. We're well beyond the range of mere speculation here. Yeah, we're in "super duper speculation" if not flat-out "mega super duper speculation."
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Jan 20, 2018 14:46
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Untrustable posted:In honor of page 420, read the fascinating and at times unnerving story of yosemite's dope lake. The Dollop episode about this is great
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Jan 20, 2018 16:46
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Solice Kirsk posted:Yeah, we're in "super duper speculation" if not flat-out "mega super duper speculation." FFS, the guy is up on charges of loving his daughters. Do you think they threw that in just on the off chance that it was true, or do you perhaps think they had some evidence?
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Jan 20, 2018 16:55
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PetraCore posted:Then why would they buy toys and then keep them in the house in their boxes and not let the kids play? They were Disney fans to literally insane levels. I'm willing to bet that those toys weren't bought as "toys," they were bought as collectibles that you DO NOT TAKE OUT OF THE BOX EVER to preserve their mint condition.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:59
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Jedit posted:FFS, the guy is up on charges of loving his daughters. Do you think they threw that in just on the off chance that it was true, or do you perhaps think they had some evidence? He's up on one count, slow your roll
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Jan 20, 2018 18:07
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Stop defending this piece of poo poo please.
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Jan 20, 2018 18:17
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If the girls were that malnourished it seems likely their menstrual cycles stopped and he wasn't fathering children upon them. I don't know why you'd have so many kids if you just want to mistreat them. Something seems off there.
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Jan 20, 2018 18:28
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Here's another hosed up one that's sort of an opposite case: https://www.yahoo.com/news/sundance-debuts-dark-tale-triplets-split-birth-093524368.html Two grown-rear end men meet randomly at a community college and realize, holy poo poo, they're twins. The news coverage of this gets a third guy to realize, holy poo poo, we're triplets. quote:The mystery around their infancy -- why they knew nothing about each other despite growing up within a 100-mile radius -- took another twist as journalist and writer Lawrence Wright made a stunning discovery. This grotesquely unethical study, also involving 5 sets of identical twins who were likewise split up, ran until *1980*. The actual study is sealed until 2066, which is a pretty good indication it's scientifically worthless and is sealed for the rear end-covering of the people involved.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:04
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RCarr posted:Stop defending this piece of poo poo please. Who's defending him, I can think people are going off the walls with speculation without thinking he's a great dude
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Jan 20, 2018 19:20
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Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:If the girls were that malnourished it seems likely their menstrual cycles stopped and he wasn't fathering children upon them. As long as we are playing Wild Speculation Theater here is mine: Purity. These people are religious nuts right? They were out to create pure children. How do you achieve that? Save them from exposure to the harmful outside world or heavily filter it. This could be incorporated into Orthorexia by proxy. Toys could be seen as harmful. Collectibles are not toys that's different and explains the boxed items. The filthy house and no showers are a type of purity as it's created by the family. Untouched by the outside world, safe in the bubble of the house. The trips to Disney and Las Vegas included in that pure bubble. The parents are totally delusional and really see this as having created the best and purest environment for the kids. Their kids are godly and pure and they probably won't ever be convinced they were doing anything wrong. They were rewarded with children that will appear eternally innocent and young. /shudder
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Jan 20, 2018 19:49
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Kiss Kiss Bang Bang posted:As long as we are playing Wild Speculation Theater here is mine: Purity.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:54
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Stairs posted:That's a good theory, but then he molested at least one of them so it's probably not the situation. ooooooh I think it fits into my theory pretty well once you go down the delusional rabbit hole far enough.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:56
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Phanatic posted:Here's another hosed up one that's sort of an opposite case: Surely the people adopted into the study can sue to have the records released, if not press criminal charges against the organizations involved? I understand that parents have power of attorney over their kids, but they still can’t agree to dangerous or destructive contracts and expect them to be upheld. If this was MKULTRA instead of a private organization those kids would be getting million-dollar payouts (if they lived and the documents weren’t destroyed).
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Jan 20, 2018 19:57
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Kiss Kiss Bang Bang posted:ooooooh I think it fits into my theory pretty well once you go down the delusional rabbit hole far enough. Oh, oh God, I think I see where you're going with this and now I want to hug my kids and feed them a whole pie.
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Jan 20, 2018 20:04
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Phanatic posted:Here's another hosed up one that's sort of an opposite case: Here’s some more information from 20 years ago, apparently before the full details of the nature of the study were known.
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Jan 20, 2018 20:12
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