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Jerry Cotton posted:It's amazing that stores like Kmart, Sears, and Woolworth have died withing our life-times. The thing I miss most that the internet killed is bookstores.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:23
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Randaconda posted:The thing I miss most that the internet killed is bookstores. I don't. They died for a reason. Every time I went into my local shop they had half the store devoted to inspirationals, religious crap, and Far Side and Doonesbury collections. For real books by real authors, they'd have the author's most popular book, and the author's most recent book, so you inevitably had to order what you actually wanted and then come back another time. If it's got to be shipped anyway, might as well just do it myself and ship it to where I live. When Borders came along, it was a miracle. But then Borders started to suck, stuck in a music/movie section that took up half the store, and started trying to sell $16.99 CDs. Back on the book side of things, for a given author they'd have the author's most popular book, and the author's most recent book, and you were back having to order things and return for them. gently caress that. A good antique book store has its place but mass-market paperbacks and hardbacks are the very definition of something you don't need to touch, try on for size, examine, etc. before you buy them.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:35
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Randaconda posted:The thing I miss most that the internet killed is bookstores. Yeah I agree, being able to browse a bunch of books by authors you might not have heard of, flip through them, check out things much faster than a webpage can show you is a great thing.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:39
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Geomancing posted:Yeah I agree, being able to browse a bunch of books by authors you might not have heard of, flip through them, check out things much faster than a webpage can show you is a great thing. Say what you will about it, but I miss Borders. There was a huge one in my local mall I used to hit up every week. There's a Barnes and Noble around the corner which is okay, but I miss that Borders, drat it. Also, it had kids in there all the time, cosplaying while they browsed manga. It was hilarious.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:56
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Gainesville used to have two Books-a-Million, a Border's, a Walden Books, B. Dalton, Media Play plus two or three used bookstores in the 90s. It was great. Plus two comic book/Table Top rpgs stores owned by the same people, and another RPG store. Randaconda has a new favorite as of 01:23 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 01:20
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I used to buy so many comics at a Walden Books in our mall when I was about ten. Loved that place. Often placed the bible in the "religious fiction" section. 
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Jan 20, 2018 01:23
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Obviously it depends on the area, but a lot of independent bookstores are doing quite well now. With a lot of the big chains gone, despite the overall decrease in business, a lot of smaller stores have seen a bit of a rebound. I was at a local bookstore in November, to see Bruce Dickinson (of Iron Maiden) presenting his autobiography. That store had sold-out events with authors multiple nights a week. Again, it's a smaller market overall, but there's definitely still room for bookstores.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:29
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Last Chance posted:I used to buy so many comics at a Walden Books in our mall when I was about ten. Loved that place. Often placed the bible in the "religious fiction" section. They played this commercial for Dianetics and Walden Books for years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Smso6rQTE
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Jan 20, 2018 01:29
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Randaconda posted:a Walden Books, B. Dalton oh drat I haven't thought of these two in years and yeah I will admit it seems like small book stores are doing well, and it seems like there are a few smaller chains of game + book stores popping up which is good also there are a lot of Half Price Books around me which own hard
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Jan 20, 2018 01:36
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I wonder if Waldenbooks and B. Dalton died because of the decline of malls.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:39
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Randaconda posted:I wonder if Waldenbooks and B. Dalton died because of the decline of malls. They died because they got undercut by Amazon, which happened before big box retailers killed mismanaged anchor stores.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:42
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I remember as a kid getting most of my taste in books from wandering thrift shops looking for interesting novels that weren't Tom Clancy or religious. And now all I read is genre trash and queer autobiographies. Thanks Bookmans'(?) my local cheap book shithole.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:46
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T-man posted:I remember as a kid getting most of my taste in books from wandering thrift shops looking for interesting novels that weren't Tom Clancy or religious. Bookman's owns so hard.
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Jan 20, 2018 02:05
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Glazier posted:These videos are pretty good, but I wish he would drop the "creative" bits and just show the mall. Then his videos would be a lot like Retail Archaeology's. The creative intros could stand to be a lot shorter, though.
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Jan 20, 2018 04:31
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Borders sucked, I'm glad they died. Those stores had zero personality, even compared to other chains like Barnes & Noble or even Waldenbooks. B&N are great, there's a massive one right by my house with a great used book section and lots of comfy sofa chairs to lounge in and read. Used to spend whole days there when I was younger. I was at one of the smaller malls by me yesterday and popped into a Books-a-Million that was in the food court upstairs for some reason. Actually picked up a recent hardcover I've been eyeing for 60% off, which was nice.
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Jan 20, 2018 07:03
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Dick Trauma posted:When I lived in Denver the company I worked at had taken over a dying mall and was turning it into a call center. I was obliged to conduct a "job fair" at what was left of the mall. There were a couple of stores still open, but everything else was gone. Most of the displays and furniture had been left behind and the Muzak was still playing so it was creepy. We took over an abandoned shoe store, pushing the chairs and shelving away to make room for a folding table. It was an appropriate preview for new hires as to what their work experience would be like. Riverside, I'm betting. .. I worked in that call center. 
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Jan 20, 2018 08:09
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Randaconda posted:The thing I miss most that the internet killed is bookstores. Naaaaaah. We used to have an AMAZING used book store in town. Then the owner decided to work on his writing and sold the store to the employees. When I would go in while I was married, my ex-wife would give me a strict budget and half my time was spent agonizing over which finds I was going to buy. Then after the sale came the parasitic polymorphic Romance cancer. Last 5 or so times I have been in, I haven't bought a thing.
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Jan 20, 2018 09:17
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Randaconda posted:Gainesville used to have two Books-a-Million, a Border's, a Walden Books, B. Dalton, Media Play plus two or three used bookstores in the 90s. It was great. Crap. ZERO friendly local game stores in town that aren't MtG, MtG, MtG...
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Jan 20, 2018 09:18
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Samizdata posted:Then after the sale came the parasitic polymorphic Romance cancer. Last 5 or so times I have been in, I haven't bought a thing. This has always been my problem with used book stores. Three rooms of Harlequin romances, two shelves of poo poo I actually want to read. If I ran one, I would likely have a trade-in policy like most of the ones I grew up around, but unlike them it would be a No Romance Novels Allowed as those would just be going in a recycling bin out back and not actually being put on shelves. Samizdata posted:Crap. ZERO friendly local game stores in town that aren't MtG, MtG, MtG... Yeah. I mean, I get it, being a FLGS is fulfilling an incredibly niche role and if they want to stay in business then they have to push something that provides a regular revenue stream, and CCGs are it and Magic is the king of those. But man, it would be nice if you could walk into one on a Friday or Saturday evening and instead of Friday Night Magic and Pokemon tournaments it was Friday night pick-up single-shot RPG night. Just grab some underused system or setting, make a folder full of premade characters to choose from, and let your customers sit down and play a game. I don't like MtG. Not only is it expensive, but also no one seems to play it the way I like - zero stakes, all cards allowed in any number, 3-6 person games, just having fun. rndmnmbr has a new favorite as of 09:42 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 09:34
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:Borders sucked, I'm glad they died. Those stores had zero personality, even compared to other chains like Barnes & Noble or even Waldenbooks. borders was not bad to work at, back in the day...you could borrow any book for like two weeks for free, you had I think a $200 line of credit, there was a mad like 60% off Christmas employee discount, it was great. I worked in the cafe, so I didn't have retail dipshits asking me, "do you have that book by that guy? I think the cover is blue..."
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Jan 20, 2018 09:38
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rndmnmbr posted:This has always been my problem with used book stores. Three rooms of Harlequin romances, two shelves of poo poo I actually want to read. There was a small used bookstore in my town many years ago, which had the same ratio: a small but good science fiction section (the part that kept me coming back) and many many shelves of interchangeable bodice-ripper romances. Once I struck up a conversation with the woman at the counter, who as it turned out was the owner, and I asked about it. She said that the romance section keeps a lot of used bookshops in business for a simple reason: people sell the romance novels back to her. Her explanation was something like: "Those Asimov and Heinlein novels you're buying? I'm never going to see those again, because sci-fi people keep their books forever. I actually have to order replacements by mail to keep up my stock, and I make next to no profit. Romance fans treat their stuff as disposable and will dump their last ten books back on me for a quarter a pop while they're buying their next set of ten for four bucks each. I have romance novels here that have circulated more than most books at the library."
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Jan 20, 2018 09:55
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Powered Descent posted:There was a small used bookstore in my town many years ago, which had the same ratio: a small but good science fiction section (the part that kept me coming back) and many many shelves of interchangeable bodice-ripper romances. Once I struck up a conversation with the woman at the counter, who as it turned out was the owner, and I asked about it. She said that the romance section keeps a lot of used bookshops in business for a simple reason: people sell the romance novels back to her. Her explanation was something like: "Those Asimov and Heinlein novels you're buying? I'm never going to see those again, because sci-fi people keep their books forever. I actually have to order replacements by mail to keep up my stock, and I make next to no profit. Romance fans treat their stuff as disposable and will dump their last ten books back on me for a quarter a pop while they're buying their next set of ten for four bucks each. I have romance novels here that have circulated more than most books at the library."  I see her point. It's not the way I want it to be as a customer, I want to see room after room of sci-fi and fantasy and good stuff in general... but like a number of things I don't like, it is what it is and for a drat good reason.
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Jan 20, 2018 09:59
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There's a used bookstore in my hometown that has kept in business by stocking the weirdest loving books ever. Like, I think the owner's entire business strategy is making sure his books are things that no one else in the state would even think of stocking. 1st edition DnD books written by Gary Gygax? Sure. A self published story written by the local crazy person? OK, sounds good. A series if books about WWII Japan that is a collection of memoirs and photos of late-war and immediate post war Japan and also entirely in Japanese? gently caress it why not, no one else is selling this. Before anyone asks yes I bought every one of these because im a hopeless nerd.
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Jan 20, 2018 10:17
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I always had a thought of running a convenience store. But gently caress Coca-Cola and Pepsi and Frito-Lay and Nestle and Hershey and Jack Links etc. etc. It was all going to be local specialties, little brands that no one ever heard of, small batch everything, all the weird and odd and unusual and cool snack food and drink that I could lay my hands on. You wouln't get what you were expecting to get, coming into my store would be a culinary adventure every time. My brother pointed out the obvious: there's a reason why all the big brands have all the space, and that's because people all want basically the same thing. And if they're feeling adventurous and have some spare change they might pick up some crab chips or a flavor or two of Jones Soda, but 99% of the time they're going to want the same Doritos and Pepsi that they always get and are familiar with, because when money is involved then risk aversion will win over novelty. And I have to admit that he's right - I spent eight years total in convenience stores, and watched a million unique products fail and be forgotten because it wasn't something our customers were already familiar with. Same with your FLGS: 80% of your customers are going to want the latest MtG expansions. Same with your used bookstore: 80% of your customers are going to want trashy romance novels. Same with anything. As someone wanting something out of the usual, even in a product category as niche as tabletop roleplaying and CCGs, then I'm automatically looking for the long tail product and I'm not the core customer that brick-and-mortar retail is looking for - the kind who will make regular repeat purchases of the same damned thing. The only way to make a go of strictly long-tail products is to be Amazon and have minimal retail overhead and vast customer coverage - and even Amazon likely does most of it's business with the regular repeating purchase customer. rndmnmbr has a new favorite as of 10:44 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 10:32
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The local bookstore from my childhood is still running as per my last home town visit 2 years ago. That place was great, it was also the only nonchain music store too. You could walk in, trade books or CDs you got for christmas and get something you actually wanted. I think the going rate was 2 albums traded in was worth 1 out. I want to say 5 singles equaled an album in trade. I once found a book I thought I had lost complete with the 'Happy Birthday Humphreys' inside the cover. Guess one of my friends stole it and traded it for Goosebumps. EDIT: Was going to talk about libraries, and just realised I have lived in this city for 3 years and have NO idea where the closest library is. Humphreys has a new favorite as of 13:35 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 13:32
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Doccers posted:Riverside, I'm betting. Lakeside? It's a Walmart now.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:23
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rndmnmbr posted:I always had a thought of running a convenience store. But gently caress Coca-Cola and Pepsi and Frito-Lay and Nestle and Hershey and Jack Links etc. etc. It was all going to be local specialties, little brands that no one ever heard of, small batch everything, all the weird and odd and unusual and cool snack food and drink that I could lay my hands on. You wouln't get what you were expecting to get, coming into my store would be a culinary adventure every time. Your idea would still work, but not as a convenience store. In a convenience store specifically, people will want to grab and go whatever they're familiar with because they're not exactly there for local specialties. But you could absolutely turn this into a small grocery store concept instead, kind of like World Market. There's an actual expectation that people will take more risks and look for unique and interesting brands when they're in a space designed for that experience instead of just throwing a drink in your car and running.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:28
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rndmnmbr posted:I don't like MtG. Not only is it expensive, but also no one seems to play it the way I like - zero stakes, all cards allowed in any number, 3-6 person games, just having fun. Sounds like you have lovely/no friends then? I mean, that isn’t MtG’s fault. Just ask people to play some Two Headed Giant at the very least. Tons of people play the way you like, but if all you do is go to a card store on a Friday night or any other tourney night asking random people to play of course no one wants to play like that. However: it is stupid expensive.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:47
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I don't know why nerds are so down on bodice-rippers, they're just a different flavour of cheap escapism.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:12
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chitoryu12 posted:Your idea would still work, but not as a convenience store. In a convenience store specifically, people will want to grab and go whatever they're familiar with because they're not exactly there for local specialties. But you could absolutely turn this into a small grocery store concept instead, kind of like World Market. There's an actual expectation that people will take more risks and look for unique and interesting brands when they're in a space designed for that experience instead of just throwing a drink in your car and running. Pop-up bodega that you can stick in areas where hip young people with disposable income hang out. Maybe like an ice cream truck with your options listed on the side. Added benefit people seem willing to spend more if they're getting something different out of the back of a truck. But as a traditional convenience store, probably not. Because it's not very convenient to go to one or those and not know what you're getting ahead of time.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:21
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rndmnmbr posted:I don't like MtG. Not only is it expensive, but also no one seems to play it the way I like - zero stakes, all cards allowed in any number, 3-6 person games, just having fun. You're complaining about Magic being expensive, and also complaining about the rule WOTC put into the game nigh on 25 years ago to prevent people buying wins? Classy.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:38
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Randaconda posted:The thing I miss most that the internet killed is bookstores. Luckily e-readers are almost exclusively an anglophone fad (oops I'm being very eurocentric here since I have no idea how big they are on other continents) so there's plenty of bookstores around here. Mail-order (via Internet) is very big of course but while their selection is huge, there's always the wait time and the Finnish postal service sucks big-time stylee so they don't even deliver anything to your home unless you pay a huge premium or don't have a job. e: tl;dr: Internet would have killed Finnish bookstores if our postal system wasn't poo poo.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:43
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The great loving irony is that it's cheaper to buy books second hand online in hard copies than it is to buy Kindle copies nearly all of the time. There was a short window when all Kindle/eBooks were cheap as hell, then they just about made them on parity with paperback costs and just jacked up the price of new books. I understand why it is the way it is, but it's still stupid that an infinitely replicable file costs more than a physical copy.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:14
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:Borders sucked, I'm glad they died. Those stores had zero personality, even compared to other chains like Barnes & Noble or even Waldenbooks. That strikes me as crazy because there are probably 4 or 5 Barnes & Nobles within a half hour drive from me and none of them have, or ever had, a used book section. They all carry about 95% the same inventory, with the only real difference between them generally being in their movie/music sections, particularly the vinyl stuff, which for a while was the only reason I'd even browse in the stores. Borders and Walden were my go to book places until they closed, but it was as much due to location as it was inventory. Walden was the place to check in the mall and I probably bought 20+ Star Wars EU paperbacks there in middle school until it closed. Borders I remember being easy to order stuff through before internet stuff like Amazon became really widespread. I ordered a copy of Guadalcanal Diary through the local store and for the rest of it's existence, they always had at least one copy on the shelf in the history section.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:27
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Jeza posted:I understand why it is the way it is, but it's still stupid that an infinitely replicable file costs more than a physical copy.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:42
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mystes posted:It's even dumber in terms of what you can do with it: you can sell the physical copy again when you're done with it (thereby recouping most of the cost), but you aren't allowed to sell an electronic version. I've got books that were printed in the 19th century that I can readily* enjoy now (although some are printed in fraktura but  ). Are the most common commercial e-books in a format that will survive 137 years as generally readable? (I literally have no idea which is why I'm asking.)*) loving cheap paperbacks from the 70s or earlier though are a nightmare because the glues just don't hold as they dry over time  And as time progresses this will naturally extend to 80s, then 90s, and so on and so forth. Sad. I mean I can still read them but it's not exactly a pleasure.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:51
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GotLag posted:I don't know why nerds are so down on bodice-rippers, they're just a different flavour of cheap escapism. Because Tom Clancy and Star Wars EU books are for boys.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:50
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Jerry Cotton posted:I've got books that were printed in the 19th century that I can readily* enjoy now (although some are printed in fraktura but Well, that's kind of the beauty of e-books. The format doesn't necessarily matter. The vast majority of paper books will never ever see another reprinting and are more or less lost to time. You put something in a digital format one time and it will live forever.  Foreeeeeeever...
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Jan 20, 2018 20:07
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Krispy Wafer posted:The vast majority of paper books will never ever see another reprinting and are more or less lost to time. This isn't true. It doesn't even make sense. Krispy Wafer posted:You put something in a digital format one time and it will live forever. This is, if possible, even less true.
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Jan 20, 2018 20:27
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Jerry Cotton posted:This isn't true. It doesn't even make sense. Most stuff probably gets one printing, maybe two. If it's 100 years ago and has never been digitized then for the vast majority of people it might as well not exist. I've recently been trying to find some old books I read when I was younger and I'm seeing $30 prices for used paperbacks from the 1980's that never made the transition to digital. Yes, they still exist, but they're effectively out of circulation. There are other books I cannot even find. Some genealogy stuff that's specifically meant to be archived and researchable requires a 300 mile one way trip to access. When I used to work at a record store I picked up a Willie Nelson CD of his early 1950's stuff. That album is available on Spotify, but for whatever reason they used different versions for some of the songs. As far as I can tell there is no digital purchasable copy of the album I have so it's effectively out of circulation. Every time a format changes (vinyl to cassette to CD to digital) some stuff gets left behind. At least with digital there's a lower barrier of entry to convert old media to a new medium. Just because you have books from 100 years ago doesn't mean all media lasts 100 years. It's like the fallacy that homes built in the past were better. We only think that because the best homes have survived. quote:This is, if possible, even less true. Star Wars Christmas Special is all the evidence you need. Once digitized, stuff never goes away. Krispy Wafer has a new favorite as of 21:00 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 20:57
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