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Koalas March posted:The problem with antifa is it's highly decentralized, which has it's good points and drawbacks. She should have hit up BLM or SPLC or a group with much better organizational skills (if not all them) or you know, not went lone wolf into the lair of evil. maybe she should've, but i really doubt it would've made a difference the people determined to believe the worst about her chose to do so even as it became obvious that they were being fed a bunch of nazi propaganda i doubt the splc or blm saying "no she's not actually a crypto-fascist" would've done much, cause there's been a bunch of times blm and the splc have said nakedly obvious things and been ignored. hell, some of these people have tried to claim parts of blm were working with the russians against hillary!
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Jan 21, 2018 18:34
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Archonex posted:So what? If you're going into politics you've gotta be aware that people are going to try and smear your name and misrepresent you. Guarding against it and not putting yourself in a blatantly terrible position where you and the people you're fighting for get screwed over is part and parcel of the job. Well, if we're looking at it purely electorally then I really don't think that this whole thing will have any effect or even be noticed by many people who aren't extremely online. And of course you need good campaigning to win, and of course she needs to build an organization. Thing is, that organization will most likely be run by the kind of people she was at that party to help out, i.e. leftist activists. And to pull in people to work for you as a leftist you need to build enthusiasm for your person and politics in the activist base. While I don't know for certain if she was thinking that way when choosing to go there to protest, it's the sort of thing that has worked for leftist politicians elsewhere. Still, I agree that time's a-wastin', and I guess the next few weeks will be the tell for whether she's really in it to win it.
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Jan 21, 2018 18:43
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Koalas March posted:Public relations and optics do unfortunately matter to a certain extent. We need to use that to our advantage not cut our noses to spite our faces just because it's dumb. Unfortunately the American electorate are loving dumb so we need to bend down and look them in the eye sometimes. And I'm not saying this as someone who is happy about it. Oh I agree but I’m not sure scientists have developed a microscope sensitive enough to detect the Venn diagram intersection of useful PR and Reaction Twitter. This comedy forum meta discussion of some alleged no-follower Twitter takes on the possibly less-than-optimal counter-counter protest by Manning could literally not be any more meaningless.
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Jan 21, 2018 18:45
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I don't think that New York activists are going to be particularly helpful in Maryland
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Jan 21, 2018 18:45
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I don't think that New York activists are going to be particularly helpful in Maryland A number of technologies exist which allow activists to communicate with each other across state lines. The modern world is a marvel!
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Jan 21, 2018 18:51
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Varam posted:A number of technologies exist which allow activists to communicate with each other across state lines. The modern world is a marvel! I mean I guess as warm bodies, but not as being particularly knowledgeable about local Maryland issues
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Jan 21, 2018 18:55
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readingatwork posted:God drat this is a lovely take from The Guardian this morning: this article was loving stupid and contradicted itself all over the drat place.
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Jan 21, 2018 19:01
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*. In order to stave off disaster we must read more history books and do good things instead of bad things**
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“Chelsea’s protest was ineffectual” would be a better take if we knew more about what even happened that night. I don’t think you can reasonably claim she went in alone though now that local antifa has confirmed they were in contact with her.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:00
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https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/955143389233733632 the resistance?
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Jan 21, 2018 21:02
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:before I answer, here's some new poo poo: Y'all bad dems are like the political version of Goldilocks; any non-bad-dem running ever can't be too-much-this or too-little-that but have to be juuust right to conform to your outdated ideas of what a good candidate is. And of course these stale "principles" and wack political-consultant thinks are never applied to incumbents or bad-dem candidates; only their challengers have to live up to your lofty & insane rules of how a candidate should act and think.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:02
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You know what, in fairness to Schumer, he’s not the only one with that idea. Still gently caress the wall though.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:03
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readingatwork posted:God drat this is a lovely take from The Guardian this morning: Jesus that is some weapons grade decorum. Their argument boils down to our systems are good but the voters voted bad and we shouldn't allow opinions that strongly deviate from the status quo to have a platform. Though this does remind me of a term coined by Sheldon Wolin to describe the problem, inverted totalitarianism. https://www.truthdig.com/articles/sheldon-wolin-and-inverted-totalitarianism/ quote:Inverted totalitarianism is different from classical forms of totalitarianism. It does not find its expression in a demagogue or charismatic leader but in the faceless anonymity of the corporate state. Our inverted totalitarianism pays outward fealty to the facade of electoral politics, the Constitution, civil liberties, freedom of the press, the independence of the judiciary, and the iconography, traditions and language of American patriotism, but it has effectively seized all of the mechanisms of power to render the citizen impotent.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:09
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I’m not sure I agree with that characterization of the Nazis at all. They paid lip service to the idea of socialism for white Germans but were mostly cozy with the rich ruling class after the Night of Long Knives and enjoyed their fair share of making GBS threads on working class people and especially women. Their conception of the system as having been “seized” to accomplish these goals implies that it was ever significantly different, which is untrue. Edit: https://mobile.twitter.com/yashar/s...agenumber%3D499 Mm. Mm. I don’t like this one. I don’t know who all these people are but I believe the lady on the far right (lol) is Fairbanks. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 21, 2018 |
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Jan 21, 2018 21:14
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Welp
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Jan 21, 2018 21:48
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Posobiec is an alt-right conspiracy theorist, for your immediate reference.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:51
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Did she do an escape the room game with them?
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Jan 21, 2018 21:51
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Office Pig posted:Posobiec is an alt-right conspiracy theorist, for your immediate reference. I can’t currently think of a good justification for this picture to exist and for what it implies. 
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Jan 21, 2018 21:54
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Koalas March posted:Public relations and optics do unfortunately matter to a certain extent. We need to use that to our advantage not cut our noses to spite our faces just because it's dumb. Unfortunately the American electorate are loving dumb so we need to bend down and look them in the eye sometimes. And I'm not saying this as someone who is happy about it. Koalas, I fear you're falling die whataboutism here. The people criticizing Chelsea Manning for attending a protest are just using it as a vector to throw whatever poo poo they can at her without shouting "tranny tranny tranny" at the top of their lungs. There is actually nothing worth criticizing and it's just the same as when people go "I support the idea of black lives matter but why do they have to block roads when they march?" You've heard enough coded racism in your life that if you take a minute I'm sure you will here the coded transphobia coming from these people criticizing Manning.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:55
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Explaining this one should be interesting.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:56
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cis autodrag posted:Koalas, I fear you're falling die whataboutism here. The people criticizing Chelsea Manning for attending a protest are just using it as a vector to throw whatever poo poo they can at her without shouting "tranny tranny tranny" at the top of their lungs. There is actually nothing worth criticizing and it's just the same as when people go "I support the idea of black lives matter but why do they have to block roads when they march?" Explain this latest tweet.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:57
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Trabisnikof posted:Did she do an escape the room game with them? More damning is that it's before Christmas, so she's been palling around with them for a while, not just "crashing" parties
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Jan 21, 2018 22:01
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Petr posted:More damning is that it's before Christmas, so she's been palling around with them for a while, not just "crashing" parties Where are you getting that from?
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Jan 21, 2018 22:03
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cis autodrag posted:Koalas, I fear you're falling die whataboutism here. The people criticizing Chelsea Manning for attending a protest are just using it as a vector to throw whatever poo poo they can at her without shouting "tranny tranny tranny" at the top of their lungs. There is actually nothing worth criticizing and it's just the same as when people go "I support the idea of black lives matter but why do they have to block roads when they march?" "MANning is emotionally unstable" is coded transphobia. "Manning shouldn't be hanging around with nazis and it looks fuckin' bad" isn't.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:03
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Lightning Knight posted:Where are you getting that from? The photo is from before Christmas Petr posted:"MANning is emotionally unstable" is coded transphobia. "Manning shouldn't be hanging around with nazis and it looks fuckin' bad" isn't. Agreed. Someone can be trans and also a piece of poo poo.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:03
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Lightning Knight posted:Where are you getting that from? From the tweet? Like, maybe it's lies but who knows?
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Jan 21, 2018 22:03
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Explain this latest tweet. Why? It's a picture with zero context offered and it depends on the viewer's transphobia to lead them to the immediate assumption that Chelsea Manning is a nazi.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:04
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cis autodrag posted:Why? It's a picture with zero context offered and it depends on the viewer's transphobia to lead them to the immediate assumption that Chelsea Manning is a nazi. The context is in the tweet 
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Jan 21, 2018 22:04
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Petr posted:"MANning is emotionally unstable" is coded transphobia. "Manning shouldn't be hanging around with nazis and it looks fuckin' bad" isn't. Don't tell me what is and isn't coded language against my community.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:05
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cis autodrag posted:Why? It's a picture with zero context offered and it depends on the viewer's transphobia to lead them to the immediate assumption that Chelsea Manning is a nazi. ... Alright.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:05
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Honestly, doing an Escape Room with a bunch of Nazis is so much worse than going to a Nazi party.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:05
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I'm sure the trans person held in military prison for years for leaking proof of war crimes somehow turned into an alt right ally in the past few months. That's clearly what this picture means.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:05
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cis autodrag posted:Don't tell me what is and isn't coded language against my community. Don't tell me what isn't my community too, rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:05
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Pollyanna posted:The context is in the tweet They tweet literally just says "here's a picture of Chelsea with bad people"... That's not context at all. You are making your own assumptions.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:06
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Petr posted:Don't tell me what isn't my community too, rear end in a top hat. If you're trans you're way too eager to sell your sisters out... Poop head
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Jan 21, 2018 22:06
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cis autodrag posted:They tweet literally just says "here's a picture of Chelsea with bad people"... It's not just a random picture. It's an Escape Room complete photo, which means that she signed up and did a 60-minute-minimum collaborative recreational activity with a bunch of Nazis. One that involves working together for a common goal.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:07
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Petr posted:From the tweet? Like, maybe it's lies but who knows? Oh I totally missed that, I thought it was from last night. cis autodrag posted:They tweet literally just says "here's a picture of Chelsea with bad people"... I sort of agree except I'd argue that it's generally a bad look to ever hang out with right-wing garbage. It's slightly different now that I know that it wasn't taken last night though.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:07
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cis autodrag posted:If you're trans you're way too eager to sell your sisters out... Poop head Because I think that picture looks really bad? Trans people can do bad poo poo. Trans people have done bad poo poo to me. Trans people have also done good poo poo to me, trans people are people and I think that person did a bad picture.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:08
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loving yikes. Also cis, I hear you and I feel where you are coming from but I don't think "doesn't appear to work well with others" is a harsh criticism of any potential politician. And frankly, the second you're hanging around Nazis I feel I earn the right to look at you sideways. 
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Jan 21, 2018 22:09
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cis autodrag posted:They tweet literally just says "here's a picture of Chelsea with bad people"... The tweet is "here's Chelsea with some alt-right people doing an activity before Christmas thereby establishing this as a pattern rather than a one-off thing last night".
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Jan 21, 2018 22:09
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Z. Autobahn posted:It's not just a random picture. It's an Escape Room complete photo, which means that she signed up and did a 60-minute-minimum collaborative recreational activity with a bunch of Nazis. One that involves working together for a common goal. No, it's a picture in front of a wall that says Escape Room. You have no idea why she was there or what she was doing. For all you know she was photo bombing. Or recording them. Or a million other things. But you, for some mysterious reason, have immediately jumped to the conclusion that she's a nazi without hearing a word from her about it. That's transphobia.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:10
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