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Wasn't that a case if the WWE lying to them by saying Billy and Chuck were a real couple that would get married on the air,?
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Jan 22, 2018 13:21
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FreudianSlippers posted:Wasn't that a case if the WWE lying to them by saying Billy and Chuck were a real couple that would get married on the air,? Yeah, GLAAD were furious afterwards when it turned out they were faking the whole time.
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Jan 22, 2018 13:24
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I would place this on both organizations since WWE was still flagrantly and obviously anti-gay at that point and it's only been in the last 8 years or so that they totally cut it off
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Jan 22, 2018 13:28
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I just watched The Adventure Game S1E1 for the first time since 1980. Man, has TV changed.
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Jan 22, 2018 13:28
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Didn’t shows used to get GLAAD awards for pretty much showcasing any LGBT characters? Even if the show was terrible to them in general. Apparently Sex and the City got four nominations, and that’s dated so badly with regards to gay people. All the gay men in the show are shrieking effeminate types that could be in a 70s sitcom, there’s an entire episode about how bisexuals are icky and secretly gay, and an episode about trans hookers that is just as bad as you might imagine.
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Jan 22, 2018 14:21
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SEX BURRITO posted:Didn’t shows used to get GLAAD awards for pretty much showcasing any LGBT characters? Even if the show was terrible to them in general. Apparently Sex and the City got four nominations, and that’s dated so badly with regards to gay people. All the gay men in the show are shrieking effeminate types that could be in a 70s sitcom, there’s an entire episode about how bisexuals are icky and secretly gay, and an episode about trans hookers that is just as bad as you might imagine. There was that one episode where I want to say Charlotte tries to hook up two of her gay friends and they're angry at her for just assuming that they would get along because they're both gay.
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Jan 22, 2018 14:22
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MariusLecter posted:The episode of Jeopardy! that aired Tuesday, August 25, 2015. Do you live on an arctic base? If so, heads up, let the Norweeg shoot the dog.
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Jan 22, 2018 14:23
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Aesop Poprock posted:I would place this on both organizations since WWE was still flagrantly and obviously anti-gay at that point and it's only been in the last 8 years or so that they totally cut it off They also still at least somewhat maintained the facade that everything they were doing was "real", not that they thought they were fooling anybody, but it was like how a magician calls what he does "magic". So if someone from outside the company asked if something they were showing on the air was "really happening" they would say sure it's real. The one good thing to come out of Linda McMahon's political career is it pretty much forced them to give up that secrecy, which hid a lot of far worse stuff.
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Jan 22, 2018 14:26
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Jedit posted:Why? On all counts, why? Mr.Tophat posted:Do you live on an arctic base? If so, heads up, let the Norweeg shoot the dog. i think they're making a joke about reruns
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Jan 22, 2018 14:51
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Sir Lemming posted:They also still at least somewhat maintained the facade that everything they were doing was "real", not that they thought they were fooling anybody, but it was like how a magician calls what he does "magic". So if someone from outside the company asked if something they were showing on the air was "really happening" they would say sure it's real. The one good thing to come out of Linda McMahon's political career is it pretty much forced them to give up that secrecy, which hid a lot of far worse stuff. Kayfabe couldn't have outlasted the internet, in fairness. Personally I'm kinda sad the facade isn't maintained as much anymore but at least now wrestling is somewhat more self-aware about being a soap opera starring large burly men in spandex
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Jan 22, 2018 14:54
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Sir Lemming posted:They also still at least somewhat maintained the facade that everything they were doing was "real", not that they thought they were fooling anybody, but it was like how a magician calls what he does "magic". So if someone from outside the company asked if something they were showing on the air was "really happening" they would say sure it's real. The one good thing to come out of Linda McMahon's political career is it pretty much forced them to give up that secrecy, which hid a lot of far worse stuff. I'm an embarrassingly huge a fan of wrestling and I don't think that's been the case since at least this, buddy. That was 1984 and the WWF was at least sort of open about not being a real sport after that, even though it was widely known since at least the 40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0q44ALM7jo edit: there's some sort of weird laugh track put over the video that wasn't there originally Aesop Poprock has a new favorite as of 14:58 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 14:56
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Wrestling was first outed by journalists in the 30's. It seems to be a cyclical thing where each generation has it's super smart, totally mature media tastemakers who are all like, "Hey, don't you idiots know that poo poo's fake?" That said, Wrestling people had a totally overblown belief that their fans on the whole were mostly true believers.
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Jan 22, 2018 15:19
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remusclaw posted:Wrestling was first outed by journalists in the 30's. It seems to be a cyclical thing where each generation has it's super smart, totally mature media tastemakers who are all like, "Hey, don't you idiots know that poo poo's fake?" It didn't stop (probably drunk) idiots from reacting like it was real https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG-FO6UnaeQ
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Jan 22, 2018 15:31
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Absurd Alhazred posted:There was that one episode where I want to say Charlotte tries to hook up two of her gay friends and they're angry at her for just assuming that they would get along because they're both gay. Yes, and then the two of them got married in the sequel movie. And Liza Minelli did the ceremony. Because, GAYS! This was 2010, not some misguided episode from the mid 90s. SEX BURRITO has a new favorite as of 16:40 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 15:32
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Reminds me that I should watch that Seinfeld episode again to see how well it's aged Edit: THat also reminded me that there was a Cheers episode where Sam's friend turned out to be gay. All I can remember was that Norm made a crack about how Cheers would have to start serving light beer. Considering that bud light is the most popular beer in America now, that has aged really well. Iron Crowned has a new favorite as of 15:37 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 15:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKSAf_aMl-E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxbsSK736IU
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Jan 22, 2018 15:36
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remusclaw posted:Wrestling was first outed by journalists in the 30's. It seems to be a cyclical thing where each generation has it's super smart, totally mature media tastemakers who are all like, "Hey, don't you idiots know that poo poo's fake?" Arguably in some cases, they were. Jim Cornette's 1980s riot stories from Mid-South are insane. Other fan violence stories are obviously one nutjob, but Mid-South was way beyond that. And Vince McMahon outed himself to the government in the 1980s for tax reasons. Seems that taxes for legitimate sporting organizations were more than what McMahon dubbed sports entertainment. e: efb on Cornette stories.
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Jan 22, 2018 15:37
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I think Drunk and enthusiastic is a bad combination when it comes to most things and wrestling fans of previous decades definitely reinforce my beliefs regarding that. Also, this is part of what I was looking for. I wish I could find the actual poll. https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/717588701849583616 remusclaw has a new favorite as of 15:43 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 15:38
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Chris Jericho thought wrestling was real up until he got hired by WWF.
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Jan 22, 2018 15:53
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Detective No. 27 posted:Chris Jericho thought wrestling was real up until he got hired by WWF. What did I say about drunk and enthusiastic?
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Jan 22, 2018 15:54
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Detective No. 27 posted:Chris Jericho thought wrestling was real up until he got hired by WWF. I'm pretty sure Jericho was aware by the time he worked for Jim Cornette in Smokey Mountain Wrestling in 94, as well as previously when he was trained and worked in Canada and Japan way before that. I mean he started in like 1990
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Jan 22, 2018 16:10
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I've always heard he's just an rear end in a top hat who likes to not pull punches.
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Jan 22, 2018 16:22
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Choco1980 posted:I've always heard he's just an rear end in a top hat who likes to not pull punches. Well he just had the best match of his life at the age of 47 so he's doing alright for himself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzYaukwLo6w
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Jan 22, 2018 16:24
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Aesop Poprock posted:Well he just had the best match of his life at the age of 47 so he's doing alright for himself He did. I also just assumed the previous poster was joking, but it's the internet. In cyberspace, no can tell you're joking. I read his book. Jericho has a name for his drunk persona like Brie Bella does.
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Jan 22, 2018 16:28
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SEX BURRITO posted:Yes, and then the two of them got married in the sequel movie. And Liza Minelli did the ceremony. Because, GAYS! Don’t forget SatC was written, directed and produced by gay men. They did that FOR THEMSELVES.
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Jan 22, 2018 17:08
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Oh, I'm not suggesting there was any significant doubt about pro wrestling being staged at that point. But they still kind of put up a front to the media. Only in the past decade or so have they completely ditched that outside the show itself. We're past the age of wrestlers appearing in character on talk shows.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:00
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To the extent that there ever was a turning point for "kayfabe" (wrestling jargon for the illusion of it being all genuine competition), it was the steroid trials in the early 90s where, to get the government at least partially off his back, Vince McMahon admitted under oath that it was scripted. A lot of the late 90s boom in wrestling was people knowing the score, but tuning in anyway because of all the insane bullshit that was being done. (There were individual things that audiences weren't sure of- Mick Foley falling through the roof of a steel cage, etc.) Proper "kayfabe" back in the day was enforced pretty strictly- heroes and villains wouldn't travel together, etc.- but then it's also safe to say that some of the guys who would try to punch the local heel in the face were just complete loving assholes who wanted an easy excuse to be complete assholes. But yeah getting back to the point, the Chuck and Billy thing was an actual dodge by the WWE, they told GLAAD one thing but wrote another.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:24
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My favorite early kayfabe story was the way Ted Dibiase told how it was becoming The Million Dollar Man during his Hall of Fame induction, where he and Vince came up with this character that was deliberately designed to make all the other guys hate him. Because to keep up appearances he'd be riding in limos and getting penthouse suites and stuff like that (on Vince's dime, natch) while the rest of the guys were riding grayhound buses and like, staying at the motel 6 on their own dimes.
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Jan 23, 2018 01:11
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Some more TV that aged really badly: British racism in the 70s edition. Two of my dad's favourite TV shows are 1) Love Thy Neighbour. A show about a black family moving next to a white family, and the two husbands both work at the same place. It is a show where the phrase "Bloody nig-nog" is not only acceptable, but used as a punchline byu the main character, whom we are supposed to like and identify with, in a "oh you rascal, what're you like" kind of way. and 2) Mind Your Language. A show about a ESL class, where the bumbling well intentioned teacher had to deal with a rowdy class of horrendously racist foreign national stereotypes. Including a frenchwoman, a spaniard, a pakistani, an indian etc. And when I say horrendously racist, I truly mean it. The thing that is surprising is, especially about no. 2, my dad is an immigrant from India. Yet he laughs and laughs, and when my brother and I call him out on how racist both of those shows are, he waves it away with "oh, you don't get humour", and "it's just a joke, lighten up" etc.
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Jan 23, 2018 02:10
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Choco1980 posted:My favorite early kayfabe story was the way Ted Dibiase told how it was becoming The Million Dollar Man during his Hall of Fame induction, where he and Vince came up with this character that was deliberately designed to make all the other guys hate him. Because to keep up appearances he'd be riding in limos and getting penthouse suites and stuff like that (on Vince's dime, natch) while the rest of the guys were riding grayhound buses and like, staying at the motel 6 on their own dimes. gently caress i was just about to post this i think that gimmick was also possibly a reward for hardwork or something because Ted also got to buy high end jewelry, watches, gadgets, etc as part of the persona and ate at the best restaurants, went to art galleries, festivals, etc completely on the company dime because it was all part of a big marketing stunt to get media outlets to give the WWE free press by reporting on this huge wrassle man gallivanting about town
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Jan 23, 2018 02:29
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Your dad sounds kind of cool. Not for being cool with racism, but for probably having lived through a lot of it and still having a sense of humor.
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Jan 23, 2018 02:31
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This wrestling talk reminded me of something I think Spoony was talking about on one of his Wrestle Wrestle vlogs: Something about a wrestler was backstage in a dressing room seeing a ghost in a mirror talking to them and in character complete buys it and everyone else thought they were crazy and no one believes them. Meanwhile, I think Spoony comments something along the lines of, "If we the audience are to take this at face value, this wrestling show is confirming ghosts are real and the wrestler ISN'T crazy because we the audience and the cameramen are witnesses to the ghost showing up. Also, all any these wrestlers have to do is watch the episode when it airs and THEY'LL see the ghosts, too." edit: By that logic, backstage secret dealings that get filmed and shown to the audience but the wrestlers all exist in a world where they never find out about a betrayal or twist until it happens hours/days/weeks later. JediTalentAgent has a new favorite as of 08:56 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 08:54
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And now that makes me wonder if a wrestler has ever used or cited previously broadcast footage. Wrestling is basically the performance art version of comic books and soap operas, endless, catnip to a certain demographic who likes getting long-term invested, and quickly becomes completely ridiculous to the uninitiated.
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Jan 23, 2018 10:53
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Inescapable Duck posted:And now that makes me wonder if a wrestler has ever used or cited previously broadcast footage. I never really understood wrestling and kayfabe until a couple of years ago, when they had Stephen Amell from Arrow get into an argument with Stardust, then leap into the ring and start punching him. I had the dumbest grin the whole time. Also, there's a wrestler called Stardust, The Prince of Dark Matter. I knew wrestling fans were nerds, but that's just ridiculous.
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Jan 23, 2018 12:37
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JediTalentAgent posted:This wrestling talk reminded me of something I think Spoony was talking about on one of his Wrestle Wrestle vlogs: I think that was this which is viewed as one of the worst wrestling moments of all times which resulted in one of the worst wrestling match of all time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78XbX5tVFeY
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Jan 23, 2018 12:41
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Also, there's a wrestler called Stardust, The Prince of Dark Matter. I knew wrestling fans were nerds, but that's just ridiculous. Rude. Cody Rhodes, son of Dusty Rhodes, hasn't been Stardust for years at this point and is really good and makes a lot of money and is part of the Bullet Club, the biggest group in wrestling at the moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzvKVwmL3q8
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Jan 23, 2018 12:44
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Hey now, there's the Shockmaster. Or is that cheating?
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Jan 23, 2018 12:51
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I wasn't really around for his heyday, but I've watched old recordings and man, I sure miss Gordon Solie.
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Jan 23, 2018 13:22
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BrigadierSensible posted:Some more TV that aged really badly: British racism in the 70s edition. Mind Your Language I'll give you, but you've missed the point of Love Thy Neighbour if you think the husbands are the main characters. They're the butts of the joke. The foils, and the characters you are meant to identify with, are their wives, who quickly become fast friends and spend most of their time rolling their eyes at the antics of their idiot prejudiced husbands.
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Jan 23, 2018 13:31
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Also, there's a wrestler called Stardust, The Prince of Dark Matter. I knew wrestling fans were nerds, but that's just ridiculous. Aesop Poprock posted:Rude. Cody Rhodes, son of Dusty Rhodes, hasn't been Stardust for years at this point and is really good and makes a lot of money and is part of the Bullet Club, the biggest group in wrestling at the moment Isn’t older brother Dustin Rhodes appearing as Golddust again? That was the original gimmick, some sort of entity of classic Hollywood (I think?). I always dug his “Shattered Dreams” intro card as a kid. I watched a lot of wrestling up into my early 20s and looking back there’s a shameful amount of misogyny, homophobia, and racism, covert and overt, and all either played for laughs or just laying hard into the social tropes people expect. Combined with the filthy history of rampant backstage drug use and assault of all sorts and well, adult me probably wouldn’t allow kid me to watch it at all, or not without a ton of discussion over sketches, like why DX dressing up like their rivals to mock them was NOT okay (their rivals being the Nation of Domination, a stable of black wrestlers including a young Dwayne Johnson). The sketches of the “Attitude” era of the WWF/E probably wouldn’t make it to air these days. There’s a twitter account that posts crowd signs from that era and the number of them that are openly homophobic is disheartening.
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