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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:do chinese people on average see their lives getting better or worse? do they see themselves as being better off than their parents? and that their kids have a good chance of being better off than they are? They're pretty busy making sure they don't buy fake eggs made out of magnesium
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Jan 23, 2018 15:47
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FactsAreUseless posted:I don't see that as sustainable long-term Doesn't have to be, just has to be longer-term than us
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Jan 23, 2018 15:47
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:do chinese people on average see their lives getting better or worse? do they see themselves as being better off than their parents? and that their kids have a good chance of being better off than they are? As I understand it, yes, but it might be reaching a peak. I"m not Chinese, just talking to (Chinese) MIL history prof who talks about the rumors of the upper crust squirrling away money in other countries. That, and opinions can change quick if the US sets off a global recession and kneecaps everybody's growth. The Dipshit has issued a correction as of 16:53 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 15:54
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Probably not OP. Cheers.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:17
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yeah i guess it'll be fine. you'll be alright. it's just politics amirite?
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Jan 23, 2018 16:26
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china will absolutely ride out a collapse of the US, exports will suffer, but consumers for their goods can be found else, not least their own domestic market, which is growing they'll be fine you should probably start learning mandarin
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Jan 23, 2018 17:03
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china has historically been the most important center of civilization on this planet, and I don't think the fact that they're returning to their rightful place of strength ought to trouble anyone. for America that does however mean that their relative advantages are going to diminish significantly. And that's a bad time to have a major political crisis. which you're in the middle of rgiht now? yeah
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Jan 23, 2018 17:09
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i've said it before and i'll say it again: the future is China vs. India, everyone else is just a sideshow
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Jan 23, 2018 17:17
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India is going to build a sunshade
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Jan 23, 2018 17:19
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rudatron posted:i've said it before and i'll say it again: the future is China vs. India, everyone else is just a sideshow pakistan has nukes too
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Jan 23, 2018 17:57
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so does israel, but you'll notice it's not on the list. you know why? because they don't matter.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:58
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rudatron posted:china will absolutely ride out a collapse of the US, exports will suffer, but consumers for their goods can be found else, not least their own domestic market, which is growing no it won't china is overall less stable than the us, just better at hiding it because there isn't a two party system+non-state 24/7 cable news
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Jan 23, 2018 17:59
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lollontee posted:china has historically been the most important center of civilization on this planet, and I don't think the fact that they're returning to their rightful place of strength ought to trouble anyone. for America that does however mean that their relative advantages are going to diminish significantly. And that's a bad time to have a major political crisis. which you're in the middle of rgiht now? yeah china will have trouble returning to their rightful place of strength in east asia, let along the planet
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Jan 23, 2018 18:00
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this is from kaiserreich rite?
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Jan 23, 2018 18:00
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Typo posted:no it won't
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Jan 23, 2018 18:03
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Typo posted:this is from kaiserreich rite? jawohl
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Jan 23, 2018 18:04
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rudatron posted:chinese are optimistic of their future, trust in their government, and believe the country as a whole is on the right path, at far greater rates than us citizens. it's the us with a crisis of legitimacy rn, not china. polling data does not capture the complexity of something like "trust in government" i.e: http://news.gallup.com/poll/195656/americans-trusting-local-state-government.aspx In the US despite lack of trust in federal governments, trust in state and local governments remain high, and varies by state comparison of polling data does not necessarily captures desired contrasts, because phrases like "trust in government" means different things in different cultural and political contexes
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Jan 23, 2018 18:10
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the federal government was a mistake and our founding fathers were just well spoken and very literate idiots
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Jan 23, 2018 18:13
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i'm just saying that your ability to extract surplus value from the rest of the world is going to diminish because you're having to compete with other economic centers for influence. and you're in the middle of a political crisis. see where i'm going at here? when chinas ability to project power over its sphere of influence collapsed, europeans swept in and took east asia from them in the 17th century. the same is about to happen to you.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:49
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i dont want east asia, i want america to collapse into several regional powers
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Jan 23, 2018 18:53
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without extracted surplus value from the imperial colonies, competition for wealth inside america is going to intensify, accelerating class war and paralysing the political system, leading to further inability to project power in the world. and on
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Jan 23, 2018 18:55
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lollontee posted:i'm just saying that your ability to extract surplus value from the rest of the world is going to diminish because you're having to compete with other economic centers for influence. and you're in the middle of a political crisis. see where i'm going at here? when chinas ability to project power over its sphere of influence collapsed, europeans swept in and took east asia from them in the 17th century. the same is about to happen to you. trade is mutually beneficial, no better example of this than the US-China relationship where China is desperate to sell cheap chinese goods made from exploited chinese workers to US i.e to the point where they are giving us free money by subsidizing their steel at rates above us tariff rates for them
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Jan 23, 2018 18:55
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lollontee posted:without extracted surplus value from the imperial colonies, competition for wealth inside america is going to intensify, accelerating class war and paralysing the political system, leading to further inability to project power in the world. and on China's ability to achieve hegemony in East Asia is made impossible by East Asian geopolitics
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Jan 23, 2018 18:58
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:do chinese people on average see their lives getting better or worse? do they see themselves as being better off than their parents? and that their kids have a good chance of being better off than they are? i was talking to chinese farmers and they told me that their village was sub-saharan africa when they were kids, now 25% of households own cars and their kids go to college in cities
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Jan 23, 2018 19:00
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Typo posted:China's ability to achieve hegemony in East Asia is made impossible by East Asian geopolitics also by the steady desertification of the yellow river basin
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Jan 23, 2018 19:00
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Typo posted:trade is mutually beneficial, no better example of this than the US-China relationship trade is contingent and its profitability is conditional on mutual balances of power. It's easy for America and China to extract resources from Africa because their political class is captive and corrupt. Thing is, they're only ever captive to the highest bidder. And that would be China right now and in the future.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:01
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maybe japan and vietnam won't cozy up with china, but south korea doesn't really have much beef, and neither does most of south asia.Al! posted:i dont want east asia, i want america to collapse into several regional powers because it's not
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Jan 23, 2018 19:01
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lollontee posted:trade is contingent and its profitability is conditional on mutual balances of power. It's easy for America and China to extract resources from Africa because their political class is captive and corrupt. Thing is, they're only ever captive to the highest bidder. And that would be China right now and in the future. Africa is next to irrelevant to the American economy, which is why China gets a free hand at trying to dominate it
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Jan 23, 2018 19:02
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rudatron posted:maybe japan and vietnam won't cozy up with china, but south korea doesn't really have much beef, and neither does most of south asia. but it is a good idea, why do you think its not???????
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Jan 23, 2018 19:02
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zeal posted:also by the steady desertification of the yellow river basin in china there's literal rivers which is dried up if you go too far downstream cuz everyone upstream is drawing from it for inefficient industrial uses
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Jan 23, 2018 19:03
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china still has a massive labor pool to exploit
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Jan 23, 2018 19:03
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Typo posted:Africa is next to irrelevant to the American economy, which is why China gets a free hand at trying to dominate it ah, i see. very wise
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Jan 23, 2018 19:03
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us population isn't really that large, 100 million is pocket change, all balkanization of the us is going to do is have open ethnic cleansing + shoving all the black people into the worst territory or do you honestly believe taht the people who live int he coast are really that much better than the midwest, because spoiler alert, they're not
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Jan 23, 2018 19:04
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america balkanizing would be funny as hell and also incredibly bloody, but they won't let that stop em
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Jan 23, 2018 19:05
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rudatron posted:maybe japan and vietnam won't cozy up with china, but south korea doesn't really have much beef, and neither does most of south asia. There are 5 great powers in Asia: China/Russia/USA/Japan/India There are minor players like Vietnam which prob never flips to china, and South korea which could flip to China but the amount of strong states and powers in the region means the difficulty of China dominating Asia is same as someone trying to achieve hegemony in 19th century Europe, which had a similar configuration of powers (UK/France/Prussia/Austria/Russia) rather than the US dominating the carribean or Latin America (where the US was the sole great power with the UK sometimes able to contest them but not always)
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Jan 23, 2018 19:06
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Karl Barks posted:china still has a massive labor pool to exploit 
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Jan 23, 2018 19:06
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rudatron posted:or do you honestly believe taht the people who live int he coast are really that much better than the midwest, because spoiler alert, they're not why is it always texans who say this.... yes, parts of this country, even the rural parts, are much better off than other parts of this country
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Jan 23, 2018 19:07
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go on
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Jan 23, 2018 19:07
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Russia is central asia, in east asia it's a big fat nobody that no one in the region cares about india will of course be a big player, and china's main competitor, i thought i made that clear but the as the us declines, its allies will naturally realize that they don't really get anything by being close to the us, than they do by being close to someone else, so they jump ship that and the us isn't even on the same hemisphere, so their entire presence in the area is contingent on that support of allies, to host bases when the allies flip, the bases go, and when the bases go, the us goes that leaves india vs china vs japan and japan has a way lower pop than china, way less natural resources, way less military currently, way less manpower, etc. it's not a contest
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Jan 23, 2018 19:10
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the bitcoin of weed posted:america balkanizing would be funny as hell and also incredibly bloody, but they won't let that stop em https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SzOUvB1WSg
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Jan 23, 2018 19:10
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