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We have as many reasons to think that the tauntauns are people as we do with the space horses. We know that the Rebels don't care about slavery and actively use slaves. If mounts are people in Star Wars as you say, then the tauntauns must be slaves too. Han Solo used a dead slave's corpse for warmth.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:41
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Sure that is one way to read it .
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Jan 23, 2018 17:42
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euphronius posted:Sure that is one way to read it . I mean, read it how you want but how do you reconcile this point then? Again, it doesn't matter as far as what you think like, as a person, but for the purpose of this discussion wouldn't you "have" to concede that under a reading of the TLJ horses as slaves that the Tauntauns are too?
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Jan 23, 2018 18:01
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The Porgs are also people and thus you can marry them.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:03
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This argument is clearly disingenuous. The tauntauns are not presented as ill-treated and are not freed in the context of a storyline about slavery.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:03
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Waffles Inc. posted:I mean, read it how you want but how do you reconcile this point then? Again, it doesn't matter as far as what you think like, as a person, but for the purpose of this discussion wouldn't you "have" to concede that under a reading of the TLJ horses as slaves that the Tauntauns are too? What do I have to reconcile. Assuming arguendo the point about tauntauns
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Jan 23, 2018 18:04
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Irony Be My Shield posted:This argument is clearly disingenuous. The tauntauns are not presented as ill-treated and are not freed in the context of a storyline about slavery. Also this.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:06
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Irony Be My Shield posted:This argument is clearly disingenuous. The tauntauns are not presented as ill-treated and are not freed in the context of a storyline about slavery. 1) Your definition of slavery is absolutely bizarre. Slaves, according to you, are defined as being people who are ill-treated and eventually liberated. In reality, slavery is a system where people are treated as property. If mounts are people in Star Wars (lol), then the tauntauns are clearly slaves. 2) Two of them die because of their masters' neglectful behaviour. That is ill treatment.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:11
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No one ever claimed mounts = people in Star Wars. I didn't claim that and the movies don't either afaict. The fact that your reduce the fathiers to "mounts" uncovers your perspective tho.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:15
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euphronius posted:No one ever claimed mounts = people in Star Wars. We have as many reasons to think that the space horses are people as we do with tauntauns. These are: - they feel emotion - there are no other reasons
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Jan 23, 2018 18:18
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The original point was you said Rose did nothing and I still stand by my contradiction, tauntauns besides the point.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:18
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:We have as many reasons to think that the space horses are people as we do with tauntauns. These are: They are intelligent Rose explicitly identifies with them as slaves
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Jan 23, 2018 18:19
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euphronius posted:The original point was you said Rose did nothing and I still stand by my contradiction, tauntauns besides the point. Your contradiction in thinking that renewal of aristocracy and a theocratic police force represents liberty for slaves? euphronius posted:They are intelligent So are many other animals. The space horses are as intelligent as tauntauns. e: hahaha, I looked them up on wookiepedia: quote:During the Galactic Civil War, the Alliance to Restore the Republic used fathiers ridden by Tognath mercenaries in hit-and-run combat missions.[ The Rebels also used them as slaves then, which is pretty funny. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 18:19
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Your contradiction in thinking that renewal of aristocracy and a theocratic police force represents liberty for slaves? I hope that doesn't happen. JJ could take it that way As it is at the end of the movie that has not happened nor is it clear it will.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:21
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
Many animals are also people. Liea , chewbacca , Snoke etc The falthier exhibit more intelligence than tauntauns* * tauntauns could be very intelligent . Esb isn't focused on that as has been explained above
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Jan 23, 2018 18:24
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At some point you are going to say what about dumb animals I don't know personally . I think they should not be used by humans irl. I don't know what the movies think about that as it has not really been addressed
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Jan 23, 2018 18:25
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
Assuming that part from wookiepedia is "true " or whatever your conclusion does not follow as the falthiers may have volunteered .
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Jan 23, 2018 18:27
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You seem to be in a big rush to post about how horses are slaves. euphronius posted:Many animals are also people. Liea , chewbacca , Snoke etc Your reasoning is that "the movie" isn't focusing on the tauntauns, so they cannot be slaves (like horses, apparently). What you actually mean is that you aren't focusing on the tauntauns enough to notice that by your (silly) definition they are also slaves.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:31
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I said clearly the may be or they may not be. If you want to say they are that's cool and is supported by the movie somewhat. Ok so what?
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Jan 23, 2018 18:33
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euphronius posted:I said clearly the may be or they may not be. If you want to say they are that's cool and is supported by the movie somewhat. Ok so what? I'm merely pointing out how incredibly stupid it is to argue that horses are slaves - the conclusion of your argument is that Han Solo was cutting up a slave's body for warmth in ESB, since mounts are sentient. Star Wars is stupid, but not that stupid most of the time. This is basically an extension of the arguments that the villains are supposed to be big losers. That would mean that the heroes are even bigger losers, to the point that fans have to rationalize horses being free as a victory so that a lame character like Rose can be held up as a role model. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 18:53
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Disagree. I guess we should move on.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:55
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bushisms.txt posted:How do we know about the battle of The Battle of Thermopylae, or the story of Methuselah? People will always tell stories about what they've heard or seen. You really think in the decade since the battle of jakku, no one talked about why they had the battle in the first place? Do you have any holidays or religion where you live? How? We know why people know about the Persian Wars and the Battle of Thermopylae, it's because the Greeks won that war, it became a cultural touchstone for them, they made art and wrote plays about it, literally the first historical work ever was ABOUT the Persian Wars, that stuff still lives on until today. I'm trying to form a connection between that and asking how some kids halfway across the galaxy know about the battle in this film and my brain is shutting down. Maybe if there was a timeskip and it was implied the Resistance won the war and people were actually talking about this, then I could maybe accept it, but even then the battle is just...uninspiring.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:00
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I'm merely pointing out how incredibly stupid it is to argue that horses are slaves - the conclusion of your argument is that Han Solo was cutting up a slave's body for warmth in ESB, since mounts are sentient. Star Wars is stupid, but not that stupid most of the time. Please at least debate the actual movie. The visual language shows the creatures clearly in understanding of the situation, taking indirect advice at a moment's notice during the chase, and are regarded as such by the other sentient characters. Tauntauns are treated as dumb animals, tools to be used. And stop trying to throw out context, your posts are becoming increasingly more incoherent in regards to the movie.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:05
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It's kinda funny that Luke's legendary last stand, re-enacted by slave kids across the galaxy, is a two-minute delaying action to save the last 0.1% of the Resistance at the end of a complete rout Hell, if I were in charge of the First Order, I’d turn it into a propaganda piece about how this is the very best our enemies can do
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Jan 23, 2018 19:05
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Chucat posted:We know why people know about the Persian Wars and the Battle of Thermopylae, it's because the Greeks won that war, it became a cultural touchstone for them, they made art and wrote plays about it, literally the first historical work ever was ABOUT the Persian Wars, that stuff still lives on until today. I'm trying to form a connection between that and asking how some kids halfway across the galaxy know about the battle in this film and my brain is shutting down. Maybe if there was a timeskip and it was implied the Resistance won the war and people were actually talking about this, then I could maybe accept it, but even then the battle is just...uninspiring. The resistance is still alive so I don't get your damage, the war not being over is literally the point of Leia's character.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:06
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bushisms.txt posted:Please at least debate the actual movie. The visual language shows the creatures clearly in understanding of the situation, taking indirect advice at a moment's notice during the chase, and are regarded as such by the other sentient characters. Tauntauns are treated as dumb animals, tools to be used. And stop trying to throw out context, your posts are becoming increasingly more incoherent in regards to the movie. Your argument is that space horses are treated as intelligent by characters and thus must be people, while tauntauns are treated as dumb and thus cannot be people. You're arguing that there's a system of racist horse-slavery in the movies, and you're defending its imagined racist aspect - tauntauns are clearly just dumb animals, while the noble space horse is akin to us humans. euphronius posted:Disagree. That's not very persuasive. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 19:14
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Ok. I was wrong you are right . You win.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:16
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Bravestofthelamps kind of went crazy after he posted a (admittedly funny) 10 million word takedown of trash fantasy novel The Name of the Wind and decided he was a smart genius when, in fact, he had just spent the better part of his youth writing a 10 million word takedown of a trash fantasy novel. Also what you idiots are missing is that tauntauns, although stupid and smelly, are actually full-throated supporters of the Rebellion and all the ones we see in Empire are volunteers. I don't see what's wrong with carving up a dead one to sleep in.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:29
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Maybe the forums need a giant scoreboard every thread and your name gets +1 points every time you win an argument or annoy the other person into quitting a conversation so we can separate the wheat from the chaff.porfiria posted:Also what you idiots are missing is that tauntauns, although stupid and smelly, are actually full-throated supporters of the Rebellion and all the ones we see in Empire are volunteers. I don't see what's wrong with carving up a dead one to sleep in. They don't show it in the film (maybe it was a deleted scene?), but before each mission an R2 unit talks to the tauntauns and they sign a waiver that they donate their bodies to the rebellion if they die on the mission and they stamp it with their paw.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:40
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I don’t understand at all how communication and memory work in Star Wars. In TFA Luke and the force have faded into myth after only 30 years but in TLJ everyone knows minute details of everything that is going on. And by that I mean gently caress JJ Abrams for his lovely tendency to make time and space malleable so Spock/Solo can see the destruction of some distant planet and FinnRose/Khan can teleport around the galaxy to make the plot lazily convenient and a kid with a broom can show up for no reason. I hate it, it’s lazy, it’s incoherent and the only thing slightly amusing about it is when partisans twist themselves into knots trying to explain it. And you know the next movie is going to have an equally arbitrary plot. I think the worst part of the intolerance of SW criticism was that it focused on fan theory and everyone who thought Snoke was X or Rey was the daughter of Y and I know I didn’t care about that but I sure as heck didn’t want Star Wars movies with the jumbled random plot points of Transformers and Pirates of the Carribean.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:47
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They're just movies chill out goddamn
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Jan 23, 2018 20:02
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CelticPredator posted:They're just movies chill out goddamn I know I know give a point to Euphronius. But that’s sort of a copout. These are big deal cultural artifacts you don’t get to have it both ways where the movie is so important that it gets this huge budget and serious treatment and ancillary artifacts but then you get to say “chill dweebus it’s just a move eee”.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:18
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I always thought that the reason why they're always reluctant to talk about information and communication in Star Wars is because then they would have to address that there's no space internet.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:22
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Tender Bender posted:Notice that none of the Moffs are really intimidated by his choking, it's more like he's just showing bad table manners. Are you talking about ANH? Tarkin is the only Moff I believe, whatever that is, but as Vader is choking the dude out it shows one of the other guys in the room scared to poo poo at what Vader is doing and even Tarkin himself has a disturbed looked.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:23
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s.i.r.e. posted:Are you talking about ANH? Tarkin is the only Moff I believe, whatever that is, but as Vader is choking the dude out it shows one of the other guys in the room scared to poo poo at what Vader is doing and even Tarkin himself has a disturbed looked. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Moff is a title for regional governor, and a Grand Moff is one step above that, so several Moffs underneath him would report to him, so he governs over several different regions in space, with quite a few planets in those regions. They, of course, hold regular Mofferences. Which are just a hoot. I don't know if he's the only Moff in the room, but I'm pretty sure the guy he chokes is an Admiral, and the guy he's arguing with is a General.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:27
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mycot posted:I always thought that the reason why they're always reluctant to talk about information and communication in Star Wars is because then they would have to address that there's no space internet. You already have the force, just say there's interference over long distances or something. Gundam had this figured out like a year after Star Wars
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Jan 23, 2018 20:40
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mycot posted:I always thought that the reason why they're always reluctant to talk about information and communication in Star Wars is because then they would have to address that there's no space internet. In the old EU there was something called the "Holonet", which kind of morphed into the internet as, well, the internet became a bigger and bigger thing in the real world. This had the unfortunate result of a scene in one book where someone comes across Vader using a public computer and space Googling Luke after the destruction of the first Death Star, which Vader hides by literally putting his hand in front of the screen. Pretty sure it was Allegiance by Timothy Zahn? But I can't remember for certain. I don't know if the Holonet has shown up again yet in the new EU. *Checks Wookieepedia* Looks like it has, though it has more of a "News Network" feel to it, now.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:50
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I wonder what movies Luke Skywalker grew up obsessing over at the Tatooine multiplex.
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Jan 23, 2018 21:20
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snoke, is dope
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Jan 23, 2018 21:31
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I guess I have to go explain to my cat and dog that I must free them as I have been keeping them in bondage. It will be sad to lose them but such is a small price to pay in the cause of liberty.
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Jan 23, 2018 21:35
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