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But we stock both Coke and KitKats, that's like double jeopardy right? They just appear in the fridges around the office each morning and developers being cuddly folk really enjoy them.HardDiskD posted:theres no ethical agilefall under capitalism With kanban we can keep optimising for ethics!
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Jan 23, 2018 20:11
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Lol that made me realize how top predator of consumerism programming and programmers are. No wonder places hate when they get a flood of them in
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Jan 23, 2018 20:28
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Cancelbot posted:Sometimes he switches up and brings his own 3L bottles. I have never heard of these...... Is this a typo or a thing?
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Jan 23, 2018 22:28
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Pixelboy posted:I have never heard of these...... Is this a typo or a thing? Three litres.
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Jan 23, 2018 22:41
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Knockoff sodas often come in 3L at the same price as brand name 2L
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Jan 23, 2018 22:50
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Pixelboy posted:I have never heard of these...... Is this a typo or a thing? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coca-Cola-Bottle-3L/16777273 Admittedly, in my experience, 2L or 1L are way more common. The Fool fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 22:50
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3L used to be way more popular in the '90s when parents were educated to pump their kids as full of the stuff as possible to prop up the dental industry
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Jan 23, 2018 23:15
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Yeah they even exist in the UK: http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/coca-cola-classic-3l/p/13712 which is where I assume he's getting them.
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Jan 23, 2018 23:25
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1100 calories and almost 3/4 of a pound of pure sugar. Luckily, Walmart has really cheap diabetes test strips also.
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Jan 24, 2018 00:23
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if you start a new job and someone makes you feel bad for asking reasonable questions you should talk to your manager or skip level about them. if it keeps happening you should start looking for a new job reasonable in this case being anything you couldn't figure out after 15 minutes of effort on your own part
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Jan 24, 2018 01:30
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Pollyanna posted:Let me add another: try to ask as few questions as possible. Although there is inevitably some background knowledge necessary to do work on a codebase without loving something up, asking questions and digging into things takes time, focus, and effort away from more senior engineers that have to get poo poo done. Asking too many questions can get you a reputation for being unable to figure things out on your own. An engineer who is open to questions and can properly manage knowledge transfer is worth their weight in gold, though. Have you ever heard of "tribal knowledge"? Originally I think it meant intellectual property, only now it seems to mean "stuff we are too lazy to actually write down". I hate it for that reason. All businesses have undocumented knowledge, and the only way to learn is to ask. You can't find it on google or in a PDF on the intranet. One place I worked had so much undocumented knowledge, the manager had an explicit policy that if you couldn't figure something out after X minutes of trying, call (don't email or chat) for help.
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Jan 24, 2018 03:22
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We call that having a "rich oral tradition"
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Jan 24, 2018 03:42
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Clanpot Shake posted:We call that having a "rich oral tradition" Im gonna change my job title to Software Skld
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Jan 24, 2018 04:11
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quote:Working in Development: We call that having a "rich oral tradition"
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Jan 24, 2018 04:41
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General question. Yesterday I gave notice and my mood improved enormously so it was obviously not a good fit. Seeing I work as a contractor, I am used to short term employment and it is somewhat expected. However, this is the third contract I cancel myself over the last 12 months and all for the same reason: "The quality awareness of your team is really low and hiring me as a QA engineer will not magically make your project flawless. All it does is waste your money as the work I do is ignored and belittled as futile." Over the weekend I realized that I would like to work in a place where my code is appreciated and used. At the moment, I get hired into projects where a raging dumpster fire is going on in terms of testcode and when asked in interviews, management lies about it or is ignorant with regards to the height of the flames. Maybe only these projects hire contractors to put out the flames? Either way, I do not want to do the job of organisation and culture changes to get the team to take QA some grain of serious. I simply do not have the likable personality for that, nor the skills or desire. Besides, I think nothing will grow on barren ground anyway. Should I just keep looking for a project that values test code or should I move to be a java develop as the project that values testcode doesn't need a dedicated developer to write that code as the developers do that themselves?
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Jan 24, 2018 12:28
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Questions are good. The willingness of people on a dev team to ask questions, listen to and learn from the answers, is the single biggest productivity boost I can think of for a team. You get more work done because you go down fewer blind alleys. People who don't ask questions for fear of seeming dumb need to be broken of that habit. People who try to make other people feel bad for asking questions need to be broken of that habit or let go if they can't get over it. I follow a 5/5/5 rule for questions. Spend 5 minutes on the problem and if I don't make ANY progress at all, I ask someone. If I do make progress after 5 minutes but still haven't found a solution, I keep going for another 5 minutes. If I haven't found something workable, then I spend 5 minutes rubber-duck-debugging and it MUST be out loud. If I still don't have an answer, I ask someone and we talk it out. If it's an institutional knowledge question that I couldn't possibly find or figure out on my own of course I'll ask straight away. The other time I love questions - the more basic, dumb, naive as possible - is during workshopping meetings when talking about upcoming stories - we find so many obvious hidden requirements and defuse so many bombs from that stuff, it's great.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:15
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Keetron posted:General question. That's been my experience with contractors as a whole; they're firefighters more than anything else. Their job is to right the ship and bring any kind of sanity to process and/or a codebase. I think you'll find slim pickings if you're looking for contracts where you're not working with garbage code or a team that ultimately doesn't take your advice or simply blames you for their problems. Just charge more and laugh all the way to the bank.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:22
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Keetron posted:At the moment, I get hired into projects where a raging dumpster fire is going on in terms of testcode and when asked in interviews, management lies about it or is ignorant with regards to the height of the flames. Maybe only these projects hire contractors to put out the flames? Most of the projects that hire QA contractors, do so only to put out the flames that are killing everyone and everything. The most important tool/skill to have as a contractor in shitholes like that is to have a very (and I mean very) thick skin. For $200/hour it is very much worth it.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:26
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Blinkz0rz posted:That's been my experience with contractors as a whole; they're firefighters more than anything else. Their job is to right the ship and brings any kind of sanity to process and/or a codebase. This is correct. If you aren't charging at least 120$/hr you are doing it wrong. In the world of contracting, the more you charge, the more people will listen to you. Perceived value and all that.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:41
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Keetron posted:Should I just keep looking for a project that values test code or should I move to be a java develop as the project that values testcode doesn't need a dedicated developer to write that code as the developers do that themselves? Sent you a PM. Ideally, the test engineer isn't writing the tests, they're writing the infrastructure that enables better and easier testing. Having a dedicated test writer is doing it extremely wrong. You know this. Changing to the Dev side doesn't mean you'll be able to convince a shop that they need to change their test practices. You're potentially in an even worse scenario there, since now you're just the new guy trying to shake things up, instead of the guy hired to make things better. If you don't have buy in from management or leads, you won't get anything but a reprimand. Realistically, I'd say it's unlikely that you'll find a good company that needs to contract a test engineer. Either they see the value in building and maintaining a test infrastructure, or they don't see value in tests at all but someone demanded them anyway. If you want to make lasting change you need to bill yourself as someone who will make institutional changes, and if you can't get that then your only real choice is to put in your hours and collect your paycheck and bounce when the contract is up.
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Jan 24, 2018 14:50
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Related to asking questions, heres a situation I was in recently: an application had a bizarre routing bug in a library I wasnt familiar with, and 1 hour in (red flag #1) I was no closer to figuring it out. Given that the logic was unfamiliar to me and strewn around the codebase, and that the logic was more or less a bespoke sort of framework written by someone on the team, I brought up the matter of my confusion with another engineer (red flags #2 and #3). We decided the best thing to do was to ask the person who had originally written the routing code for insight on why the bug was happening. Said persons response was Im sure you can figure it out if you work at it a bit longer. I never figured that bug out before I left. So from this I can see that I did three things wrong: 1. Waited too long to reach out to someone - I took an hour to try and figure it out, when longer than 5~10 minutes is the cutoff. 2. Failed to rubber duckie the problem. 3. Reached out to one more engineer than necessary, and should have gone directly to the original writer (who was also the team lead). In the future, I should rubber duck immediately after 5~10 minutes, and if I still cant figure it out, find the most appropriate engineer. This is all assuming that it was something I could not have figured out on my own instead of it being a matter of just not understanding whatever routine library was involved. Does that sound about right? Is that a fair assessment of the situation?
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Jan 24, 2018 15:23
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Cancelbot posted:Minor derail from question-questioning but I suspect some resignations over this one in our department: One thing that got skipped in this discussion is basically that theyre cutting/changing what people (at least that one developer.) sees as a perk or benefit of the business. Why are they doing this? There could be two reasons. 1) Theyre doing it for cost savings, in which case theyve decided that a few bucks a week is worth the productivity of their employees. Or 2) That they into showing control and know better than you. That you cant be trusted with sugary drinks. Is there a 3? Neither those sound like a good environment to be in, and so there should be some resignations in the department because either theyre desperate to cut costs, they dont think youre valuable, or they want to micromanage your existence.
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Jan 24, 2018 15:49
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Pollyanna posted:Related to asking questions, heres a situation I was in recently: an application had a bizarre routing bug in a library I wasnt familiar with, and 1 hour in (red flag #1) I was no closer to figuring it out. Given that the logic was unfamiliar to me and strewn around the codebase, and that the logic was more or less a bespoke sort of framework written by someone on the team, I brought up the matter of my confusion with another engineer (red flags #2 and #3). We decided the best thing to do was to ask the person who had originally written the routing code for insight on why the bug was happening. Said persons response was Im sure you can figure it out if you work at it a bit longer. I never figured that bug out before I left. Your general approach is not inherently flawed. Sometimes it takes a bit more time in your own to make progress, and sometimes you don't know who to ask when you don't know WTF is going on. The real problem here is your framework architect sounds like a jerk who didn't know how his own code worked and was embarrassed to admit it. If I was asked a similar question and didn't know almost right away at least somewhat might be going wrong, I'd be tempted to fix it myself right there, or at the very least get to the bottom of it with you.
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Jan 24, 2018 16:00
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Pollyanna posted:...Said persons response was Im sure you can figure it out if you work at it a bit longer. I never figured that bug out before I left. I would say what you did wrong was not the questioning, but the giving up after hearing that from the original writer. Obviously I wasn't there, but I probably would've said something like: "I've actually been stuck on this for a while now. I've tried {X Y and Z} but I can't figure out where {X} is getting {params Y} from," or whatever. "This is a much different implementation of {standard routing lib} than I've used before. Do you have any time later on to give me a quick overview of how {custom routing plugin} works? Or are there some docs or something I can look at?" It definitely wasn't cool that they blew you off, but if they are under the assumption that you only looked at it for 5 minutes, it makes more sense. If they are truly too busy to help you, asking them in an open-ended way is going to frustrate both of you, which is why it's important to give them an opening to point you at a better resource. Explaining your understanding and assumptions (that this is a custom module, the problem you are having is undocumented, and they are the best resource for understanding) lets them either correct you or understand that no, actually, you can't figure it out.
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Jan 24, 2018 16:27
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vonnegutt posted:I would say what you did wrong was not the questioning, but the giving up after hearing that from the original writer. Obviously I wasn't there, but I probably would've said something like: "I've actually been stuck on this for a while now. I've tried {X Y and Z} but I can't figure out where {X} is getting {params Y} from," or whatever. "This is a much different implementation of {standard routing lib} than I've used before. Do you have any time later on to give me a quick overview of how {custom routing plugin} works? Or are there some docs or something I can look at?" Even if they're too busy they should have at least been able to point you in the right direction, or gave you a hint at what part of the code to start looking. (at least that's what i would have done). They sound like a dick.
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Jan 24, 2018 16:39
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Volmarias posted:Sent you a PM. This is before I checked out the PM, but I wanted to highlight this point as I encountered it a few times now. Someone in management sees low quality deployments to prod and the solution chosen is "hire a tester" instead of "instill quality awareness into team" or "accept quality takes time". We live in interesting times, my friends. Keetron fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 16:41
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Pollyanna posted:Related to asking questions, heres a situation I was in recently: an application had a bizarre routing bug in a library I wasnt familiar with, and 1 hour in (red flag #1) I was no closer to figuring it out. Given that the logic was unfamiliar to me and strewn around the codebase, and that the logic was more or less a bespoke sort of framework written by someone on the team, I brought up the matter of my confusion with another engineer (red flags #2 and #3). We decided the best thing to do was to ask the person who had originally written the routing code for insight on why the bug was happening. Said persons response was Im sure you can figure it out if you work at it a bit longer. I never figured that bug out before I left. If he actually understood the questions and the code he could have given you even a small amount of assistance in the same amount of time it took to tell you to gently caress off. Everything up until "I never figured that bug out..." sounds like a pretty normal day. That story should have ended with "and then we insisted he explain it because the way he wrote the code was nonstandard and confusing."
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Jan 24, 2018 17:33
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Portland Sucks posted:If he actually understood the questions and the code he could have given you even a small amount of assistance in the same amount of time it took to tell you to gently caress off. Everything up until "I never figured that bug out..." sounds like a pretty normal day. That story should have ended with "and then we insisted he explain it because the way he wrote the code was nonstandard and confusing." Yeah, my response to that would have been something along the lines of "This whole thing is poo poo and I'm rewriting it if I don't get an answer in the next 5 minutes".
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Jan 24, 2018 17:47
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Hughlander posted:One thing that got skipped in this discussion is basically that theyre cutting/changing what people (at least that one developer.) sees as a perk or benefit of the business. Why are they doing this? There could be two reasons. 1) Theyre doing it for cost savings, in which case theyve decided that a few bucks a week is worth the productivity of their employees. Or 2) That they into showing control and know better than you. That you cant be trusted with sugary drinks. Is there a 3? If you get upset enough to quit because the mints at the reception desk switch to sugar free because it's less bad for people then good riddance. e: it's actually just a crappy argument against change in general couched in terms of "What if cost-cutting?!" and "What if paternalism?!", the latter of which doesn't make sense because sugar water isn't banned. Munkeymon fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 17:52
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Hughlander posted:One thing that got skipped in this discussion is basically that theyre cutting/changing what people (at least that one developer.) sees as a perk or benefit of the business. Why are they doing this? There could be two reasons. 1) Theyre doing it for cost savings, in which case theyve decided that a few bucks a week is worth the productivity of their employees. Or 2) That they into showing control and know better than you. That you cant be trusted with sugary drinks. Is there a 3?
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Jan 24, 2018 18:25
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"You left the mine because a canary passed out? Sad!" That a company does that is indication that there's something wrong. How many people have been laid off? How many people prior to the lay-off saw changes in the spending prior to it?
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Jan 24, 2018 19:29
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Hughlander posted:"You left the mine because a canary passed out? Sad!" I think you've lost the thread of the story
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Jan 24, 2018 20:21
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Munkeymon posted:I think you've lost the thread of the story I think it was: Company gave out perk A, now discontinued that and gives out perk B instead. People involved and those not involved have strong opinions and smear them all over the internet. Thank you guys who asked to endorse me for Levitation and Time Travel, but it seems LinkedIn will not let people click that for some reason to give me fake points. I wonder why?
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Jan 24, 2018 21:25
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To be fair, in my office if Pizza Friday were replaced by Salad Friday, there would rightfully be riots. Especially if there were dead canaries in the salad.
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Jan 24, 2018 21:58
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Just to clear it up: We have fridges dotted around the whole building with free chocolate, drinks etc. Which means there's also an ongoing joke about the <Company Name> stone (14lbs) of weight being gained in your first year. Additionally there is a tax being introduced in England where high sugar content drinks will cost more. So the joke + tax mean that the company has a good excuse to save some money but also be seen as healthier than they were. All that's happening in reality to us; Coke => Diet coke/coke zero Fanta => Fanta zero Some chocolate is now yoghurt and cereal bars The department is growing by 60 people over 12 months and we're posting double digit revenue growth year on year. It'd help if we weren't also fat i suppose. But devs being devs some of them get loving triggered cos some sugar water is being replaced.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:22
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Better than getting all your water bottles replaced with soda because employees aren't allowed to have any of the water bottles, only the guests.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:25
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Don't software dev wages in England also suck rear end?
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Jan 24, 2018 23:28
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rt4 posted:Don't software dev wages in England also suck rear end? As far as I can tell, high software dev wages are a US-only thing.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:46
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Hell yeah they do, but we get universal healthcare, 4-5 weeks of holidays, and relative to the rest of the economy we're paid incredibly well.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:46
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True. I would trade high wages for stability and proper healthcare, TBQH.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:51
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