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Kai Tave posted:Yeah there we go, I knew it was someone else Mearls was replying to instead of Tarnowski though I'm not at all surprised he had to weigh in too (lol at calling Maximum Mike a "douchebag with delusions of grandeur"). While I suppose you could squint your eyes and claim that Mearls' casual dismissiveness of the these panelists isn't really "gatekeeping" since he isn't actively attempting to keep them away from the convention, merely denigrating them and their accomplishments in a very passive-aggressive sort of fashion along with a bunch of grognard shitheads, I'm gonna say it's close enough for the judges. 2016 was the year Wizards stopped going to GenCon, so they were probably all desperately pretending that GenCon wasn’t important.
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Jan 22, 2018 22:23
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Halloween Jack posted:Woah, really? What game? So there was this game from SPI called Dragonquest; it wasn't...a good game, but it had a few interesting ideas here and there. SPI got bought out by TSR, mostly to get their board game/wargame stuff and (some folks at SPI claimed) to kill off Dragonquest. I'm pretty sure the folks at SPI who claimed this were having delusions of grandeur, because like I said, the game wasn't great. But one of published adventures for Dragonquest was called the Enchanted Wood, and featured a tower that used to be a demigod named Karsus, whose still living heart was a powerful source of magic. Karsus, his heart, and lot of other elements from the Enchanted Woods adventure got incorporated directly into the FR backstory- Karsus became the wizard-king that hosed everything up in the old magic empire and got turned to stone for his trouble. (Later TSR decided to republish Dragonquest and did a dual-statted Dragonquest/D&D adventure set in the Realms. This was, I think, shortly before they went bankrupt and they got bought by wizards, because TSR was not making good decisions at this time.)
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Jan 22, 2018 22:55
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Not that shortly, TSR didn't kick it until the late 90s and Dragonquest's last edition was in '89,
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Jan 22, 2018 23:01
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Huh, I could swear it was republished a lot closer to the late 2E days. Maybe it's just that it took that long for it to show up in my local game stores.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:06
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Kwyndig posted:Not that shortly, TSR didn't kick it until the late 90s and Dragonquest's last edition was in '89, https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1543/dragon-quest FMguru fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 23:22
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I am sure Mike Mearls hasn't done any kind of sex crime against adult, alive, humans. *winks*
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Jan 23, 2018 00:00
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Plutonis posted:I am sure Mike Mearls hasn't done any kind of sex *nods wisely*
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Jan 23, 2018 00:11
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Covok posted:I mean, having seen how he looks like, I would not at all be surprised if he sexually harassed women. Not accusing nor, especially not, defending, just saying that he definitely looks like the type of guy who would pull that kind of atrocious stuff. gently caress off with this poo poo.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:38
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you can be mad ugly and not be a lovely person
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Jan 23, 2018 00:52
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Kai Tave posted:While I suppose you could squint your eyes and claim that Mearls' casual dismissiveness of the these panelists isn't really "gatekeeping" since he isn't actively attempting to keep them away from the convention, merely denigrating them and their accomplishments in a very passive-aggressive sort of fashion along with a bunch of grognard shitheads, I'm gonna say it's close enough for the judges. Yeah, it's definitely possible he wasn't trying to be lovely, but it was certinaly badly phrased whether it he was being malicious or just tactless. I get the impression Mearls does want to make inclusive gestures, but it's only a fair-weather intention.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:55
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah, it's definitely possible he wasn't trying to be lovely, but it was certinaly badly phrased whether it he was being malicious or just tactless. I mean it's really hard to discuss whether Mearls wants to sincerely be inclusive and anti-gatekeeping without rehashing the deal with him and Zak S for the gazillionth time, but it remains the biggest elephant in the room as far as that goes. That's sort of the problem with palling around with complete shitheads and going to bat for them, it puts your sincerity into question even if you ostensibly state an otherwise decent point (like "gatekeeping is bad.") Talk is cheap, and as far as I can tell Mearls is all talk.
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Jan 23, 2018 01:02
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How he can talk with his foot in his mouth is another story entirely.
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Jan 23, 2018 01:05
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Countblanc posted:you can be mad ugly and not be a lovely person Judging by Mearls’ appearance, the most I can reasonably suspect him of is Trisomy 21, given the relative shortness of his neck and small ears, but I would not jump to that conclusion without a karyotype or at least a detailed sociomedical history. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 23, 2018 01:08
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Countblanc posted:you can be mad ugly and not be a lovely person Nice virtue signaling humblebrag. Bwahahha
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Jan 23, 2018 01:10
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Probations finally went through so the thread is open again. No more lovely jokes about what game devs look like.
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Jan 24, 2018 03:35
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Kai Tave posted:I mean it's really hard to discuss whether Mearls wants to sincerely be inclusive and anti-gatekeeping without rehashing the deal with him and Zak S for the gazillionth time, but it remains the biggest elephant in the room as far as that goes. To be honest, it doesn't really matter to me too much, I just think things get pretty wild with demonizing him (I wrote this just as the thread locked down, it feels more than a little prescient). Not that it isn't understandable, and not that anybody should necessarily forgive him for the lovely, cringeworthy groveling he did to some of the worst corners of our hobby. But people can contain multitudes. He can see Chult as a diversifying of D&D while other folks rightly poke at its faults. It's probably better than the last take on it (i.e. just blowing it up), but it's probably not as educated as it needed to be either. Generally speaking I find 5e so dull I can barely bring myself to care about what happens with the "industry leader". And I'm saying that as somebody who was willing to dig through every last page of Starfinger because I thought it might be interesting. (Not as much as I'd hoped, sadly.) As far as I go, I don't have any such delusions about the current version of D&D.
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Jan 24, 2018 03:57
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I personally won't believe Mearls on any of this topic regarding gatekeeping et al until he does apologize for enabling Z and the pundit in their lovely little fiefdoms. But then I'm also not the target audience for D&D anymore so who cares what I think.
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Jan 24, 2018 04:03
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Halloween Jack posted:Isn't Diplomacy basically designed to make you horrible? I was trying to read-up on "how to win at Diplomacy" the other day and I came across this bit of advice that suggests that people should be honest both ways: if you're seeking to ally with someone and even if you're looking to attack someone, the idea being that it builds trust to say to someone that it's this front that they need to look out rather than having them guess. I've only gotten to play Diplomacy once, but it's a game that intrigues me because it's entirely deterministic, and so winning is a matter of conversation and relationships and deals rather than specifically "playing the mechanics".
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Jan 24, 2018 04:05
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Kwyndig posted:I personally won't believe Mearls on any of this topic regarding gatekeeping et al until he does apologize for enabling Z and the pundit in their lovely little fiefdoms.
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Jan 24, 2018 04:05
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Alien Rope Burn posted:To be honest, it doesn't really matter to me too much, I just think things get pretty wild with demonizing him (I wrote this just as the thread locked down, it feels more than a little prescient). Not that it isn't understandable, and not that anybody should necessarily forgive him for the lovely, cringeworthy groveling he did to some of the worst corners of our hobby. But people can contain multitudes. He can see Chult as a diversifying of D&D while other folks rightly poke at its faults. It's probably better than the last take on it (i.e. just blowing it up), but it's probably not as educated as it needed to be either. "Demonizing" seems like a pretty hyperbolic way to frame what just happened here in this thread, nobody is saying Mearls is the Great Gaming Satan, but I'm also not impressed by him tweeting at people to "stop gatekeeping" the same way I'd be equally unimpressed by someone known for consuming entire chocolate cakes in a sitting to be throwing shade at others for poor dietary habits. He also isn't a very good game designer either so I'm not privy to those positive multitudes he may or may not possess, just the lovely ones which is what I base my opinion on. Covok made a really stupid post and instead of everybody going "hey yeah, he is ugly so he must be a sexual creeper" a couple people went "yo this is real fuckin dumb" and he copped a probation.
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Jan 24, 2018 04:08
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Ettin posted:Probations finally went through so the thread is open again. No more lovely jokes about what game devs look like.
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Jan 24, 2018 06:29
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Halloween Jack posted:Jenna Moran is a hundred feet tall and covered in spikes and won't let me build a temple in her stupid city. You're thinking of Jhen Mohran, actually
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Jan 24, 2018 06:32
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Halloween Jack posted:Jenna Moran is a hundred feet tall and covered in spikes and won't let me build a temple in her stupid city. Have you attempted to weave an elaborate meta-narrative about your quest to build the temple?
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Jan 24, 2018 06:49
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unseenlibrarian posted:So there was this game from SPI called Dragonquest; it wasn't...a good game, but it had a few interesting ideas here and there. SPI got bought out by TSR, mostly to get their board game/wargame stuff and (some folks at SPI claimed) to kill off Dragonquest. I'm pretty sure the folks at SPI who claimed this were having delusions of grandeur, because like I said, the game wasn't great. But one of published adventures for Dragonquest was called the Enchanted Wood, and featured a tower that used to be a demigod named Karsus, whose still living heart was a powerful source of magic. Karsus, his heart, and lot of other elements from the Enchanted Woods adventure got incorporated directly into the FR backstory- Karsus became the wizard-king that hosed everything up in the old magic empire and got turned to stone for his trouble. You’re reading way too much into this. It had nothing to do with editorial or some push from TSR brass. Jennell Jaquays designed all three products involved and decided to reuse her work from the Enchanted Wood in the Savage Frontier because she was proud of it and thought it deserved more attention. She also designed the 1e/Dragonquest dual-system adventure.
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Jan 24, 2018 06:50
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Ettin posted:Probations finally went through so the thread is open again. No more lovely jokes about what game devs look like. Post a selfie so I can be cruel to you but on an informed point of view.
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Jan 24, 2018 12:49
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Plutonis posted:Post a selfie so I can be cruel to you but on an informed point of view. Hey Ettin! You look like a 90s nazi trying to figure out his lovely 1st gen webcam! Friend computer more like fail computer amirite?
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Jan 24, 2018 13:09
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Kai Tave posted:"Demonizing" seems like a pretty hyperbolic way to frame what just happened here in this thread, nobody is saying Mearls is the Great Gaming Satan, but I'm also not impressed by him tweeting at people to "stop gatekeeping" the same way I'd be equally unimpressed by someone known for consuming entire chocolate cakes in a sitting to be throwing shade at others for poor dietary habits. A lot of folks have positioned him for years as some secret master that deliberately tanked 4e (despite it being his livelihood) instead of, y'know, just being bad at design. All I'm saying is that you don't have to make poo poo up about somebody when their actions are bad enough.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:28
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Alien Rope Burn posted:A lot of folks have positioned him for years as some secret master that deliberately tanked 4e (despite it being his livelihood) instead of, y'know, just being bad at design. Anyone who says he deliberately sabotaged 4e is being ridiculous, ofc, but he did make some clear attempts to try to "address" complaints against 4e with Essentials and later 5e. They were poorly-designed and done under some weird, myopic assumption that it was possible to "win back" people that had already settled into a new niche and were playing the games they wanted for the rest of time, but they were sure attempted.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:49
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Splicer posted:Ettin's a big blue eye in a crt monitor. Mods???
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Jan 24, 2018 13:57
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Hey guys haha, check this out I found an ettin nudie shot 
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Jan 24, 2018 15:03
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Alien Rope Burn posted:A lot of folks have positioned him for years as some secret master that deliberately tanked 4e (despite it being his livelihood) instead of, y'know, just being bad at design.
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Jan 24, 2018 17:34
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Haystack posted:Hey guys haha, check this out I found an ettin nudie shot l-lewd 
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Jan 24, 2018 17:40
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Halloween Jack posted:Jenna Moran is a hundred feet tall and covered in spikes and won't let me build a temple in her stupid city. Can confirm. Although, really, it's mostly the mayor of Portland that's stopping the temple thing.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:42
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Alien Rope Burn posted:A lot of folks have positioned him for years as some secret master that deliberately tanked 4e (despite it being his livelihood) instead of, y'know, just being bad at design. I always like the '(x) tanked (y) ON PURPOSE' conspiracies because they're so clearly always from a place of someone just learning about the handful of times that actually happened and assuming it must be a common business move done in smoky back rooms rather than just thinking 'maybe this guy was dumb and did bad moves'.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:52
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sexpig by night posted:I always like the '(x) tanked (y) ON PURPOSE' conspiracies because they're so clearly always from a place of someone just learning about the handful of times that actually happened and assuming it must be a common business move done in smoky back rooms rather than just thinking 'maybe this guy was dumb and did bad moves'.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:55
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Y'know, I thought "never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence" first gained currency in nerd circles.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:55
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Yeah, wasn't Mearls jsut a guy who wanted Wizards to always be the best and also made boring, barely functional classes? I never pegged him as an evil mastermind who hated 4e, just a nerd with regressive design taste.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:56
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Moriatti posted:Yeah, wasn't Mearls jsut a guy who wanted Wizards to always be the best and also made boring, barely functional classes? Yes. Correct. He had a few good ideas in the early 00s, has been copying them over and over ever since, and when he was given the reins to 4e, tried to make it resemble 3e as much as possible in a failed attempt to win back grogs. 5e was lucky that it didn't get another reiteration of his godawful Assassin class that he's been recycling since Iron Heroes.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:01
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Moriatti posted:Yeah, wasn't Mearls jsut a guy who wanted Wizards to always be the best and also made boring, barely functional classes? Pretty much, he thinks fantasy roleplaying needs magic as a major force, D&D is a setting with very strong divides between 'mundane' and 'magic' characters, he did his normal thing of saying 'well then obviously a wizard should be able to fart a world ending destruction spell and a fighter should just pray for a magic axe'.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:03
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I liked a post that about the Mearls tweet that was like "The guy who brought back vancian casting and spell components complaining about rules complexity and gatekeeping is unbelievable"
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Jan 24, 2018 19:03
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