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People complain about casters being overpowered on 3/5e but my biggest loving gripe with them is that dailies/encounters were incredibly better than having to carry loving bat poo poo all the time to cast fireball and having to track which spells you are using during the day and how easily your GM could gently caress you over with that
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Jan 24, 2018 19:06
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Plutonis posted:I liked a post that about the Mearls tweet that was like "The guy who brought back vancian casting and spell components complaining about rules complexity and gatekeeping is unbelievable" https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/955558545872662528 and here I am thinking "why the hell is your game so hard to understand that people need to be mentored to get it?"
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Jan 24, 2018 19:10
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"There are too many orcs for us to face with swords alone. Quick batman, poop into my hand!"
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Jan 24, 2018 19:20
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I mean, that's fine, it's kind of not what D&D has become, but Dying Earth is a cool series.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:35
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no one actually plays d&d 5e RAW anyway so it doesn't really matter how complex it is
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Jan 24, 2018 19:39
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that old onion article thats like "man passionately defends what he assumes the constitution says", except it's everyone's vague idea about spell components and skill DCs
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Jan 24, 2018 19:40
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Countblanc posted:no one actually plays d&d 5e RAW anyway so it doesn't really matter how complex it is Yep, this is why the best game is no game. Cheapest buy in, no preconceptions to constrain you, only possibilities. Sky's the limit!
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Jan 24, 2018 19:42
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I'd rather play Lasers and Feelings than 5e so maybe you are onto something...
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Jan 24, 2018 19:43
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I'd rather have, a buffalo, take a diarrhea dump in my ear
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Jan 24, 2018 19:44
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Spell components can be cool to RP out but RAW in 5E they're almost a complete nonissue unless you're stuck in a dungeon for days on end and/or separated from your arcane focus, I don't think there's as much rule flubbing happening here as you might expect. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:44
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Moriatti posted:Yeah, wasn't Mearls jsut a guy who wanted Wizards to always be the best and also made boring, barely functional classes?
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Jan 24, 2018 19:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/955558545872662528 I think it’s reasonable to mentor someone to be a better GM. I don’t think it’s reasonable to mentor someone to understand a rule set. Something is messed up there.
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Jan 24, 2018 20:06
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/955558545872662528
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Jan 24, 2018 20:13
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Mearls blocking women who were disagreeing with his implying that they can't understand setting lore and rules was cool too
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Jan 24, 2018 20:17
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The real gatekeepers are the people who selfishly refuse to do the work of our marketing department for free.
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Jan 24, 2018 20:23
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Plutonis posted:Mearls blocking women who were disagreeing with his implying that they can't understand setting lore and rules was cool too yeah this was the real headscratcher for me as well, moreso than the irony of mearls saying it
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Jan 24, 2018 20:23
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Mearls jumping on the bandwagon of becoming a dishonest woke ally is the most predictable thing in the universe. If his social media feed were curated a little differently he'd be a Proud Boy.
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Jan 24, 2018 20:34
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Countblanc posted:that old onion article thats like "man passionately defends what he assumes the constitution says", except it's everyone's vague idea about spell components and skill DCs One could say the D&D license is a pretty good metaphor for the current state of American democracy: An outdated system that once set the standard, but still riddled with problems solved long ago by its imitators, mostly due to an entrenched fan base that despises change.
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Jan 24, 2018 20:34
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Simian_Prime posted:One could say the D&D license is a pretty good metaphor for the current state of American democracy: An outdated system that once set the standard, but still riddled with problems solved long ago by its imitators, mostly due to an entrenched fan base that despises change. Stop
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Jan 24, 2018 20:35
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No, keep going, I'm almost there.
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Jan 24, 2018 20:38
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Simian_Prime posted:One could say the D&D license is a pretty good metaphor for the current state of American democracy: An outdated system that once set the standard, but still riddled with problems solved long ago by its imitators, mostly due to an entrenched fan base that despises change. we just got the thread unlocked you dummy
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Jan 24, 2018 20:39
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i guess if by "the standard" you mean "terrible bullshit" then yeah that's accurate
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Jan 24, 2018 20:40
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Did I miss the chance to make a "the real gatekeepers were the friends we made along the way" joke?
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Jan 24, 2018 20:42
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D&D, much like American democracy, is imperfect -- but significantly better than people who are only interested in telling just-so stories rather than participating give it credit for
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Jan 24, 2018 20:45
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also in that i sincerely apologize for the effects of its foreign policy 
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Jan 24, 2018 20:45
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Simian_Prime posted:One could say the D&D license is a pretty good metaphor for the current state of American democracy: An outdated system that once set the standard, but still riddled with problems solved long ago by its imitators, mostly due to an entrenched fan base that despises change.
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Jan 24, 2018 20:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN_pio0uCG0 this music video is the most accurate depiction of the universe of Unknown Armies
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Jan 24, 2018 21:00
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Halloween Jack posted:Also, it has always been obsessed with going into other people's homes and mass murdering them and taking all their stuff 
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Jan 24, 2018 21:01
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Moriatti posted:I'd rather play Lasers and Feelings than 5e so maybe you are onto something... Was Lasers and Feelings a hack of Trollbabe, or the other way around?
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Jan 24, 2018 21:50
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hyphz posted:Was Lasers and Feelings a hack of Trollbabe, or the other way around? Trollbabe is 2002 so probably the former.
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Jan 24, 2018 21:56
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:D&D, much like American democracy, is imperfect -- but significantly better than people who are only interested in telling just-so stories rather than participating give it credit for quote:mostly due to an entrenched fan base that despises change.
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Jan 24, 2018 21:58
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are you coming at me for not wanting D&D to change or just repeating your already-lame joke
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Jan 24, 2018 22:04
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:are you coming at me for not wanting D&D to change or just repeating your already-lame joke Nobody’s coming at you dude this isn’t RPGSite or grade-school recess
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Jan 24, 2018 22:43
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e: you know on second thought i think i misread you i'm just kind of tired of criticisms of how much D&D sucks from the general direction of "because it should be Dungeon World," regardless of whether that's actually what you were saying Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 22:53
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I had a fascinating discussion today about role-playing and dnd that I wanted to recap here because it was inspired by a number of interesting points. Basic point #1: Podcasts and twitch/YouTube replays of actual gaming combined with shows like Stranger Things etc. inspire people to seek out role-playing because "that looks cool" Basic point #2: Role-playing can be divided in a wide variety of style, rules and genres, but mostly focuses on fantastical journey/narrative-games or mathematically heavy mechanical play Basic point #3: DnD, as coming from war gaming origin, might not even simulate role-play at all, but rather is an amalgamated/varied war gaming experience that accidentally also allows for role-playing parts of it. Basic point #4: The most successful genre of movies/books/narratives of any kind aren´t fantasy/sci-fi/whatever you think. It´s romance & general human drama. Basic point #5: At any moment there are more successful real life narrative games/shows without any fantastic imagery on screen/available as books/comics than any role-playing game offers. Based on those three points the discussion actually went around quite a bit, but it focused on a very interesting thought. With the rise of podcast and video replays, we see an ever greater number of people joining the ranks of role-players, as well as an extension of actual genres. However, how do we discern such tastes if we only ever offer the fantastical? The success of trash TV about making moonshine in Mississippi and talent shows, casting in general, cooking shows, soccer and related sports etc, there´s also been a rise of simulators and games for their particular ilk. For heaven´s sake, Cooking Mama is an enormous franchise with hundreds of millions of dollars worth. But I´ve yet to see a role-playing game try to snatch up the growing group of farmers yearning for a Seed Farmer RPG, or a Soccer Team RPG (imagine something like this where the final boss battle of an evening is the actual game. Instead of combat feats, you have ball manoeuvres etc. You can do this for just about every sport really) or something similar. Are we just caught up in our bottle of escapist fantasy or is this just a sector or genre that´s yet to grow out of the numerous indies currently flooding the pdf and general rpg market?
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Jan 24, 2018 23:24
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There are a fair amount of RPGs that go for a more realistic route or cover sports or what-have-you, but they are really really niche even within an already niche hobby because people who enjoy soccer are going to either go outside and play soccer or watch soccer on TV. The fantastical element seems so intrinsic to tabletop games because it permeates the most popular ones, which are popular because they offer experiences that would be impossible to replicate otherwise. I can't Indiana Jones my way through a cursed temple to kill some wizard nerd and steal his poo poo in real life.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:32
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D&D, much like American politics, is fundamentally about killing things and taking their stuff.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:41
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I think some of it is a feedback loop where the types of gameplay that are most commonly used to simulate combat (and sports) have been refined on for so long that, if you're purely interested in mechanics, it's tempting to just decide you might as well build on those rather than trying to invent new good mechanics from scratch and get them to simulate something different. Another is that tabletop has pretty specific costs and advantages compared to video games -- what about a farm simulator game demands a GM, or the kind of improvisational freedom that TRPGs offer, or 4-6 players who are always on board to play at a scheduled time, that can't be satisfied by Harvest Moon? All the scheduling and bookkeeping and so on is enough overhead that TRPGs aren't really the "natural" solution to the question of "how do I make a game out of subject matter <X>?" -- instead you've got a hobby that's mostly about playing the kind of game that could only be a TRPG, which then coincidentally because it was founded by nerds is mostly fluffed as fantasy / sci-fi.
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Jan 25, 2018 00:21
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D&D is actually like the french republic in that okay I had a joke here but it required me to claim that the french fourth republic was good, so never mind
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Jan 25, 2018 00:28
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I mean, the first one was pretty good until Robespierre had his psychotic break. Would that make Louis-Napoleon AD&D or Hackmaster?
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Jan 25, 2018 00:40
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