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I just don't think China's all that stable. They're good at projecting the image of stability but I think their government has a huge number of problems behind the scenes.
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Jan 24, 2018 22:39
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Sinocentrists read a Time Magazine article on China in 2007Often Abbreviated posted:lmao @ cowards who are afraid of having an opinion but can't help posting regardless Ok, America's future is "3rd world Blade Runner" and not "D&D poster's November 9th cattle car fever dream"
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Jan 24, 2018 22:44
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FactsAreUseless posted:I just don't think China's all that stable. They're good at projecting the image of stability but I think their government has a huge number of problems behind the scenes. they're communists though. there might be issues with sine things behind the scenes that would be big problems in america, but they can make a lot of those just go away permanentlky
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Jan 24, 2018 22:45
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Countries with highest inflation have the most money???
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Jan 24, 2018 22:51
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im terrified of having an opinion
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Jan 24, 2018 22:53
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sometimes i wake up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night but then i realize that i didnt actually post my deepest darkest fears on an internet comedy forum
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Jan 24, 2018 22:55
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gently caress!!!!!!!
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Jan 24, 2018 22:55
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my opinion is that america will survive the current insanity just fine
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Jan 24, 2018 22:59
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zen death robot posted:my opinion is that america will survive the current insanity just fine but, it will never, be the same
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Jan 24, 2018 23:07
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it's far more likely that the US will continue its gradual decline into a technocratic dystopia with a permanent underclass of immigrants, minorities, and the poor than somehow violently break apart into warring city-states but the latter is way cooler and more fun to theorize actual future being basically just the exact poo poo that already exists except moderately worse is depressing. no hope
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Jan 24, 2018 23:09
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the bitcoin of weed posted:it's far more likely that the US will continue its gradual decline into a technocratic dystopia with a permanent underclass of immigrants, minorities, and the poor than somehow violently break apart into warring city-states but the latter is way cooler and more fun to theorize no one said life was easy!
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Jan 24, 2018 23:21
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Often Abbreviated posted:lmao @ cowards who are afraid of having an opinion but can't help posting regardless lol at people thinking the US is done, wait until global warming kicks in and the real bloodshed starts when an actual human wave moves north lmao 
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Jan 24, 2018 23:36
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Stairmaster posted:isnt that all already happening besides the life expectancy and standard of living stuff no thats also happening
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Jan 24, 2018 23:42
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imo xi is staving off china's collapse for a while by killing and imprisoning a ton of the grafters that inevitably appeared when the country became capitalist and replacing a lot of the bloated graft-ridden chinese elite and installing a bunch of people that will continue his program for a generation or two even if it was mostly done to consolidate his own power, making a lot of heads of corrupt elites roll has by all indications done a great deal to restore public faith in the government. a lesson obama could have learned.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:52
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I don't mind China becoming an economic motor and helping establish a multipolar world order, but I'd be wary of living in a world where America declines in such a way that it also ends up leaving a large cultural and political hole that forces people to look for alternatives like China. Sure, the US as a geopolitical force is often horrible, but at least it pays some lip service to freedom, democracy, etc. China doesn't even try to hide the extent of its authoritarianism. And in a future that's gonna become increasingly unstable due to ecological and economic catastrophes, people will want to secure their conditions at any cost, solidarity will be flushed down the drain once the FYGM mindset kicks in, and they'll start pining for strongmen who choose winners and losers. They'll look at China's model and say "gently caress democracy and gently caress social undesirables" with far more enthusiasm, and that's when things are gonna get ugly because lmao if you think the average guy is gonna care about redistribution of resources towards the poor and other groups when he starts losing the ground beneath his feet. That's why the far-right loves the concept of sinofuturism and taking either China or Singapore as possible models. And why they like accelerationism and a "libertarian" balkanization of the US. Their ranks are full of people salivating over the idea of thousands of poleis popping up, because it'd mean full corporate control, rigid hierarchies, an instrumentalized society, and mass expulsion/slaughter of minorities and political enemies in paleocon/paleolibertarian enclaves. Of course, this all assumes that China and everybody else will weather an american collapse instead of simultaneously crashing due to how economically intertwined we are.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:53
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i wish trump would levy tariffs on your postings
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Jan 24, 2018 23:55
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Stairmaster posted:isnt that all already happening besides the life expectancy and standard of living stuff this is happening with life expectancy of working class whites
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Jan 25, 2018 00:00
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FactsAreUseless posted:I just don't think China's all that stable. They're good at projecting the image of stability but I think their government has a huge number of problems behind the scenes. this is extremely true and obvious to anyone who live in china, unless you are homework explainer
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Jan 25, 2018 00:03
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Typo posted:this is extremely true and obvious to anyone who live in china, unless you are homework explainer home ex lives in china... we go to you home ex, live, in china edit: holy cow your edit came in right in the knick of time Karl Barks has issued a correction as of 00:06 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 00:04
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Karl Barks posted:home ex lives in china... we go to you home ex, live, in china if china was literally collapsing tmr complete with armed militia in the streets he would be proclaiming the triumph of the socialist revolution same if china tmr was prospering with 5 new billionaires created in 24 hours
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Jan 25, 2018 00:13
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also if politics does turn violent there's not gonna be a breakup, it's gonna look more like latin american civil wars where there's rebellions in part of the country and the central government is unable to get rid of it but the country prob stays in one piece and if you like in NYC and don't watch the news you can kinda pretend it's not happening it's not gonna be fun if you live in the part of the country where america-equivalent of the shining path or the contras are operating in though
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Jan 25, 2018 00:20
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Feral Integral posted:i wish trump would levy tariffs on your postings i wish trump would probate me for 6 hours mods do NOT do this unless you are trump
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Jan 25, 2018 00:43
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Ive got a question since to me it seems like the empire is definitely collapsing whereas apparently people like gobbagool think nothing has really changed: Does unquantifiable soft-power stuff like pulling out of the Paris Agreement or making GBS threads on the iran agreement and Trumps general capriciousness and isolationist bluster really matter? If america is no longer perceived to be a predictable actor after one upset election result can that make the world that much more multi-polar essentially overnight? I dont think the global community can just paper over this one by giving Kamala Harris a nobel peace prize in 2020
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Jan 25, 2018 01:30
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cargo cult posted:Ive got a question since to me it seems like the empire is definitely collapsing whereas apparently people like gobbagool think nothing has really changed: Does unquantifiable soft-power stuff like pulling out of the Paris Agreement or making GBS threads on the iran agreement and Trumps general capriciousness and isolationist bluster really matter? If america is no longer perceived to be a predictable actor after one upset election result can that make the world that much more multi-polar essentially overnight? I dont think the global community can just paper over this one by giving Kamala Harris a nobel peace prize in 2020 in my opinion its more that trump winning pulled the wool off everyones eyes in the global elite that neoliberalism had in fact not tamed democracy and "uncertainty" even in the heart of the global north the fact that things went back to "normal" after the 2008 crash and no elites went to jail was of course a big piece or evidence that it had
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Jan 25, 2018 01:38
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speaking as one of the few actual poor as opposed to chronically drug addicted or middle class SA posters, things are much, much worse than since I was a kid. effective wages are even lower, despite raised minimum wage, there's less free food programs, less homeless shelter, higher rent prices, medical is still around but lord knows the feds are trying to solve that, and the mayor of sacramento has the police burn down homeless camps while trying to coax silicon valley companies to build more offices here things are really bad right now, but it has almost nothing to do with the federal government and everything to do with the economy. unfortunately if you're a spectator from out of the country, its hard to tell, because the USA does goofy poo poo like pretend people who gave up looking for a job don't count as unemployed, and measuring GDP over average household income, etc.
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Jan 25, 2018 01:51
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cargo cult posted:Ive got a question since to me it seems like the empire is definitely collapsing whereas apparently people like gobbagool think nothing has really changed: Does unquantifiable soft-power stuff like pulling out of the Paris Agreement or making GBS threads on the iran agreement and Trumps general capriciousness and isolationist bluster really matter? If america is no longer perceived to be a predictable actor after one upset election result can that make the world that much more multi-polar essentially overnight? I dont think the global community can just paper over this one by giving Kamala Harris a nobel peace prize in 2020 I’d humbly suggest that there is no such thing as soft power, only diplomacy backed by hard power. it’s not the job of the US government to be the most popular kid at day care, it’s to look after the interests of US citizens. there seems to be a lot of confusion on that front.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:22
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FactsAreUseless posted:I just don't think China's all that stable. They're good at projecting the image of stability but I think their government has a huge number of problems behind the scenes. China seems like it's upheld on the twin pillars of nobody gives a gently caress but also everyone always gets poo poo done at most any cost.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:38
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cargo cult posted:Ive got a question since to me it seems like the empire is definitely collapsing whereas apparently people like gobbagool think nothing has really changed: Does unquantifiable soft-power stuff like pulling out of the Paris Agreement or making GBS threads on the iran agreement and Trumps general capriciousness and isolationist bluster really matter? If america is no longer perceived to be a predictable actor after one upset election result can that make the world that much more multi-polar essentially overnight? I dont think the global community can just paper over this one by giving Kamala Harris a nobel peace prize in 2020 Most of european leaders shock and dismay at Trump is an act.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:44
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America could literally elect some comic book villain as Prez and the NATO allies will scream and cry and tut and then hold their hand out waiting for their free army, because that's all America has ever been worth to the rest of the world.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:46
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in the year 2070 chinese hospital ships will come to the rescue after the health system collapses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbCAb7uuwPU  gonna get some cupping therapy while i'm on it. make me feel real good
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Jan 25, 2018 02:55
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Peanut President posted:America could literally elect some comic book villain as Prez and the NATO allies will scream and cry and tut and then hold their hand out waiting for their free army, because that's all America has ever been worth to the rest of the world. and conversely, nobody really cares what the governments on the dead gay continent think. I mean it’s like humoring your Parkinson’s riddled elderly relatives at thanksgiving.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:57
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gobbagool posted:I’d humbly suggest that there is no such thing as soft power, only diplomacy backed by hard power. it’s not the job of the US government to be the most popular kid at day care, it’s to look after the interests of US citizens. there seems to be a lot of confusion on that front. soft power exists in international relations today but its not national moral standing or anything, its mostly bribes, quid pro quo, and everyone being chummy with their classmates from harvard
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Jan 25, 2018 02:58
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Metal Cat posted:I don't mind China becoming an economic motor and helping establish a multipolar world order, but I'd be wary of living in a world where America declines in such a way that it also ends up leaving a large cultural and political hole that forces people to look for alternatives like China. Sure, the US as a geopolitical force is often horrible, but at least it pays some lip service to freedom, democracy, etc. China doesn't even try to hide the extent of its authoritarianism. And in a future that's gonna become increasingly unstable due to ecological and economic catastrophes, people will want to secure their conditions at any cost, solidarity will be flushed down the drain once the FYGM mindset kicks in, and they'll start pining for strongmen who choose winners and losers. They'll look at China's model and say "gently caress democracy and gently caress social undesirables" with far more enthusiasm, and that's when things are gonna get ugly because lmao if you think the average guy is gonna care about redistribution of resources towards the poor and other groups when he starts losing the ground beneath his feet.
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Jan 25, 2018 03:46
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Al! posted:like i said, our constitution is real bad ppl that fetishize the constitution should get shock treatment
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Jan 25, 2018 03:50
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gobbagool posted:I’d humbly suggest that there is no such thing as soft power, only diplomacy backed by hard power. it’s not the job of the US government to be the most popular kid at day care, it’s to look after the interests of US citizens. there seems to be a lot of confusion on that front. I'd humbly suggest you have no idea what the gently caress you're talking about. Your previous post about Indo-Pacific security and Chinese hegemony was completely wrong, and if you don't believe in soft power then you also don't believe interstate relations are socially constructed. That is a stupid as gently caress realist worldview shared by barely anybody who isn't stuck in the 1970s or alternatively up their own asses.
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Jan 25, 2018 04:03
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it's less about soft power than about cultural globalization. america's position has allowed it to export it's culture to other countries through commodity trade, and it's only to be expected that people and countries copy both consciously and unconsciously mimic the ruling ideology. and that's had its ups and downs. but a rise of china and decline the us turns that around, meaning that other countries are going to start importing chinese values, which i...don't like. china's actually an incredibly xenophobic country, it's effectively a han supremacist state. it has a pop of about 1 billion, and had a total immigration number of about...1000. and as other posters have mentioned, it doesn't even give lip service to things like democracy. which is challenging. so instead of countries turning into little versions of the US, they turn into little versions of china, with all that implies. rudatron has issued a correction as of 04:32 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 04:29
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culturally though it seems like india is more influential in asia i mean, i know whose movies and music i'd rather absorb also the cultural values of indian media seem to translate pretty well outside the country into central asia and the middle east. same kind of cultural language and issues at play (family vs. individualism, tradition vs. modernity, ethnic and religious issues). chinese movies? who watches that stuff other than the chinese? and has anyone watched chinese soft power media? it's terribly boring stuff. like baby's first national geographic documentaries with financial reports at the top of the hour. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 05:56 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 05:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_MyUGq7pgs
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Jan 25, 2018 05:32
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and that's sort of the dichotomy with my india vs. china thesis, though the question then is 'what does an indian future look like?', and i don't know the answer to that one. what is the specifically indian model of governance look like? the 'china model' seems fairly straightforward about what it implies, but india is, politically, kind of a mess. is that itself the 'india model'? or is india in a transitional phase to something else, which will fully realize what 'the indian model' looks like? I want to lean toards the latter, by that might just be my ignorance on the indian political scene.
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Jan 25, 2018 05:46
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The Chinese are too arrogant and abrasive. They don't respect other cultures in Asia enough to export their culture meaningfully. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU3eDUNPfLQ Systems of governance and corruption may be a different story.
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Jan 25, 2018 05:47
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