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My local unaffiliated mobile phone repair place was able to replace my 6's battery for 50 bucks (this was maybe a week before the Apple slowdown news? Whatever they were doing didn't help the battery from being crap in the first place,) but I would have rather had the ability to do it myself, like with any Android. Thinless and lightness are overrated and prized mainly by people making the phones in a game of one-upsmanship. (I'm guessing, as everybody who uses them just slaps a big'ol case on anyways.)
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Jan 24, 2018 18:33
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self unaware posted:I'm talking about Apple trying to drive revenue in their apple stores by making repairs as difficult as possible and doing things like soldering ram to the motherboards of of their laptops And what of other device makers doing the exact same thing to compete with the form-factors that Apple produces? Are those Apple's fault as well, or is it just companies deciding that most consumers really don't give a gently caress about serviceability over aesthetics and functionality? Why get so upset about it?
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Jan 24, 2018 18:35
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PT6A posted:And what of other device makers doing the exact same thing to compete with the form-factors that Apple produces? Are those Apple's fault as well, or is it just companies deciding that most consumers really don't give a gently caress about serviceability over aesthetics and functionality? No, those device makers are also lovely. It's annoying but for those "in the know" it's pretty easy to avoid that kind of bullshit. It's still anti-consumer. quote:Why get so upset about it? There's not an eye rolling emoji large enough for this baloney.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:38
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So giving the consumer what they want is anti-consumer. Well, alright then. I guess we're just not going to see eye to eye on this.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:40
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PT6A posted:So giving the consumer what they want is anti-consumer. Customers don't want their laptops to have the ram soldered to the motherboard, they simply don't get a choice. It's not like there's a huge amount of third party OSX devices(wait, there's none). Most people buy Apple because they like the ecosystem or the build quality, not because they've sacrificed all repairability in the name of thinness and lightness. I imagine "well it's selling well so every feature must be desired by the customer, umad?" is a comforting narrative but unfortunately, in the real world, things are not quite so simple.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:44
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self unaware posted:Oh, don't worry, I don't buy their poo poo devices. But if you don't think forcing customers to use the apple store to service their devices wasn't a business decision designed to drive revenue I've got some waterfront real estate to sell you. Oh for FS. Their devices aren’t poo poo. And what major android device has replaceable batteries in 2018? Not LG, or Samsung, or google pixels. Apple devices are expensive. But they are well built, the company values Individuals users privacy far, far more than google, and most importantly, iMessage and FaceTime work amazing across all their devices. As for this thread, toys R Us just announced they are closing another 100+ stores
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Jan 24, 2018 18:45
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LionArcher posted:Oh for FS. Their devices aren’t poo poo. And what major android device has replaceable batteries in 2018? Not LG, or Samsung, or google pixels. Apple devices are expensive. But they are well built, the company values Individuals users privacy far, far more than google, and most importantly, iMessage and FaceTime work amazing across all their devices. Like I said, I'm not saying there's a better alternative, but for me personally, Apple is a no-go due to that kind of anti-consumer baloney. There are plenty of laptops you can buy that don't have ram soldered to the motherboard. Smartphones are pretty much designed to be replaced every two years and none of the manufacturers seem interested in changing that (hmm, I wonder why) and yeah, all of the device makers doing that poo poo under the guise of "it's what the consumer wants!" re: usb-c ports, removing the headphone jack is just a load of crap. People have no choice. You'll have a tough time proving the customers wanted to remove the headphone jack in the latest iteration of devices, but it's not hard to prove that it's going to drive more purchases of wireless headphones (which Apple will gladly sell you, surprise)
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Jan 24, 2018 18:48
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self unaware posted:Customers don't want their laptops to have the ram soldered to the motherboard, they simply don't get a choice.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:55
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self unaware posted:Like I said, I'm not saying there's a better alternative, but for me personally, Apple is a no-go due to that kind of anti-consumer baloney. There are plenty of laptops you can buy that don't have ram soldered to the motherboard. Smartphones are pretty much designed to be replaced every two years and none of the manufacturers seem interested in changing that (hmm, I wonder why) and yeah, all of the device makers doing that poo poo under the guise of "it's what the consumer wants!" re: usb-c ports, removing the headphone jack is just a load of crap. People have no choice. I get you don’t like the choices they make, and I’m not saying they are perfect. But to call them out for their anti-consumer baloney is laughable. Also, headphone jacks on their phone? Come on.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:18
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Mozi posted:Thinless and lightness are overrated and prized mainly by people making the phones in a game of one-upsmanship. (I'm guessing, as everybody who uses them just slaps a big'ol case on anyways.) (well, okay, I don't actively make fun of people for that, but I've never bought a case for any device in my life)
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Jan 24, 2018 19:33
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I made fun of people for using cases right up until I shattered two screens in a month.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:38
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Cicero posted:95% of consumers don't give a poo poo about that, but most consumers do like having a laptop that's thin. You don't need to solder RAM to make a laptop thin.enough for the average consumer, who isn't buying a Mac in the first place.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:46
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I think people need to learn how to repair their own apple poo poo honestly. It's not that hard and if you're going to pay for apple products you may as well learn how to take care of them
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Jan 24, 2018 19:51
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LionArcher posted:Oh for FS. Their devices aren’t poo poo. And what major android device has replaceable batteries in 2018? Not LG, or Samsung, or google pixels. Apple devices are expensive. But they are well built, the company values Individuals users privacy far, far more than google, and most importantly, iMessage and FaceTime work amazing across all their devices. I’m posting this from an iPad so obviously that’s where my loyalties lie but it should be noted that my kid’s Samsung j7 2018 model has a replaceable battery. Maybe different countries or states have different laws or something?
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Jan 24, 2018 23:17
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Turtlicious posted:I think people need to learn how to repair their own apple poo poo honestly. It's not that hard and if you're going to pay for apple products you may as well learn how to take care of them My understanding is that iPhones need specialized tools to operate on and are also easy to break if you aren't an expert already. So no, I'll pay somebody else to do it who gives me a warranty for their work. Not that I shouldn't be able to swap out my own battery, but that ship sailed years ago.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:33
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learnincurve posted:I’m posting this from an iPad so obviously that’s where my loyalties lie but it should be noted that my kid’s Samsung j7 2018 model has a replaceable battery. Maybe different countries or states have different laws or something? I meant flagship phones. But fair point I suppose on some of the budget options
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Jan 25, 2018 00:40
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The consumer is a dumbass, but this has been known and been exploited by marketing to the point where it has become an exact science. Now excuse me while I relax with a bud light while I browse facebook and catch up on Young Sheldon.
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Jan 25, 2018 01:04
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Asimov posted:The consumer is a dumbass, but this has been known and been exploited by marketing to the point where it has become an exact science. Now excuse me while I relax with a bud light while I browse facebook and catch up on Young Sheldon. I'm always a little leery when bands I like do stuff for tv and movies I also like. On the one hand, cool, I get to hear Stephin Merrit singing about Topsy the elephant for Bob's Burgers, but on the other, it makes me feel like I've been pinpointed a little too closely by some marketing dude 
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Jan 25, 2018 01:11
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Mozi posted:My understanding is that iPhones need specialized tools to operate on and are also easy to break if you aren't an expert already. So no, I'll pay somebody else to do it who gives me a warranty for their work. You're not wrong. They've got extreme anti-tamper measures, to the point of basically bricking if you open newer ones yourself. It's not an awful idea from a security standpoint, but "gently caress with this and the user data is lost forever but you can reload" is different than "touch it and you have to buy a whole new one". Apple picked option 2 to make sure they control the product from sale to repair.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:25
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self unaware posted:Like I said, I'm not saying there's a better alternative, but for me personally, Apple is a no-go due to that kind of anti-consumer baloney. There are plenty of laptops you can buy that don't have ram soldered to the motherboard. Smartphones are pretty much designed to be replaced every two years and none of the manufacturers seem interested in changing that (hmm, I wonder why) and yeah, all of the device makers doing that poo poo under the guise of "it's what the consumer wants!" re: usb-c ports, removing the headphone jack is just a load of crap. People have no choice. I agree, Apple is for brainless consumer drones. That's why I bought this fantastic Samsung Galaxy with Super AMOLED Ultra HD display, high-performance multicore processor, and Bixbytm smart assistant! I'm not like those Apple-loving conformists, so Samsung is a company that really gets me and my rebel ways. If you're a nonconformist like me, make sure to choose a Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Available now at your local wireless retailer or unlocked at Best Buy.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:48
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ITT a bunch of people who have no idea how design works. I can guarantee apple isn't doing things like soldering RAM down and having non removable batteries because it makes it harder to fix, but are doing it because it's cheaper/more effective/more robust/thinner/etc. Planned obsolescence due to lovely parts is a thing, but it's not like Apple twirled their mustache and made it shittier so it would break, but rather because the non lovely parts cost more and would cut into profit margins. Likewise with the battery - it would add a pretty significant size disadvantage and extra cost to make an everyday consumer replaceable battery and someone at Apple decided that wasn't worth the trade-off. You can disagree with that decision absolutely, but it's not in any way done because they are desperately wanting your phone to die.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:49
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All corporations are evil, but there was never a secular religion built around whoever founded Samsung
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Jan 25, 2018 02:50
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So, Sears dropped about 9% today as they're trying to pitch exchanging debt due in the next year for longer term debt (some with stock convertibility options).
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Jan 25, 2018 03:08
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Quandary posted:Likewise with the battery - it would add a pretty significant size disadvantage and extra cost to make an everyday consumer replaceable battery and someone at Apple decided that wasn't worth the trade-off. You can disagree with that decision absolutely, but it's not in any way done because they are desperately wanting your phone to die.
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Jan 25, 2018 03:34
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OneEightHundred posted:Replaceable batteries aren't a problem of size, they're a problem of being able to open the case easily. Right, agreed. Making it easy to open the case requires it to be bigger/more expensive.
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Jan 25, 2018 03:36
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Quandary posted:Right, agreed. Making it easy to open the case requires it to be bigger/more expensive. LionArcher posted:Not LG, or Samsung, or google pixels. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 04:27
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OneEightHundred posted:The iPhone has internals that have barely any purpose except to make it more difficult to disconnect the battery. It's more about how components are laid out than how much space they take up, especially when the battery is already a modular component (unlike RAM chips, which have to be soldered on to a board one way or another). Apple could make batteries easy to replace if they wanted to, they just don't want to. Okay now explain everyone else not letting you replace the battery on a flagship phone
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Jan 25, 2018 05:17
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Turtlicious posted:I think people need to learn how to repair their own apple poo poo honestly. It's not that hard and if you're going to pay for apple products you may as well learn how to take care of them You are not easily soldering ball grid arrays back to a mobo. OneEightHundred posted:Replaceable batteries aren't a problem of size, they're a problem of being able to open the case easily. They don't let you in the case easily anymore because they don't want your dumbass to short the drat battery out and start a fire in your dumbass kitchen. TyroneGoldstein fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 05:36
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A decent phone repair guy can replace a battery on a iphone in around 10-20 minutes and a screen can be done around an hour. The phones which suck to work on are the flagship Samsung phones.
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Jan 25, 2018 05:38
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G-Mach posted:A decent phone repair guy can replace a battery on a iphone in around 10-20 minutes and a screen can be done around an hour. The phones which suck to work on are the flagship Samsung phones. Correct. I think you need about 1500 bucks of specialized equipment that you'd have to score from Alibaba to even work on a Sammy phone nowadays. I think part of the process of resealing the screen utilizes heat, pressure and vacuum simultaneously.
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Jan 25, 2018 05:40
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Okay now explain everyone else not letting you replace the battery on a flagship phone But, as with the $50 cables, I still mostly blame consumers for not giving a poo poo. TyroneGoldstein posted:They don't let you in the case easily anymore because they don't want your dumbass to short the drat battery out and start a fire in your dumbass kitchen. Horseshoe theory posted:So, Sears dropped about 9% today as they're trying to pitch exchanging debt due in the next year for longer term debt (some with stock convertibility options). IIRC they have some large payments coming up in June, so this is probably an admission that they're about to default unless their debt is restructured, which nobody will do because they're losing money and have almost no hope of recovery. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 06:13
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Quandary posted:ITT a bunch of people who have no idea how design works. I can guarantee apple isn't doing things like soldering RAM down and having non removable batteries because it makes it harder to fix, but are doing it because it's cheaper/more effective/more robust/thinner/etc. Planned obsolescence due to lovely parts is a thing, but it's not like Apple twirled their mustache and made it shittier so it would break, but rather because the non lovely parts cost more and would cut into profit margins. Likewise with the battery - it would add a pretty significant size disadvantage and extra cost to make an everyday consumer replaceable battery and someone at Apple decided that wasn't worth the trade-off. You can disagree with that decision absolutely, but it's not in any way done because they are desperately wanting your phone to die. There may be some good side effects to Apple designing their devices in they way they do, but I think it is pretty obvious that a huge motivation for how they design their gadgets is so they can make money on upgrades, repair services, & adapters and accessories. It is pretty transparent. Like for example, their new iMac Pro is an all-in-one desktop computer with plenty of space to fit connectors for RAM DIMMs, but the RAM in it is soldered to the motherboard. There is basically zero technical reason to do that. Apple removed the headphone jack from their new phones two years ago because they now own a headphones company, Beats, and were also launching their own Bluetooth headphones, the AirPods, and wanted to nudge users towards buying their pricey Bluetooth headphones instead of using their old wired headphones. There are a tonne of other examples of this--these two only scratch the surface. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 13:08
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Halloween Jack posted:All corporations are evil, but there was never a secular religion built around whoever founded Samsung Don't have a horse in this dumb my phone is better fight, but wasn't the leadership of Samsung tied up with that weird fortune teller lady that caused president Park to be impeached?
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Jan 25, 2018 13:22
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Yeah but their role in that seems to be just being pressured for bribes (and giving them.)
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Jan 25, 2018 15:17
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Yeah, a lot of zillionaires in the US go to "prayer breakfasts" with other zillionaires who are slightly more insane than they are, but it's a means to an end.moller posted:Don't have a horse in this dumb my phone is better fight, but wasn't the leadership of Samsung tied up with that weird fortune teller lady that caused president Park to be impeached? I am a crabby old man and I was never, ever young. But I don't remember ever gathering in public to thank a dead capitalist for the products he sold me. It's sick.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:44
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silence_kit posted:There may be some good side effects to Apple designing their devices in they way they do, but I think it is pretty obvious that a huge motivation for how they design their gadgets is so they can make money on upgrades, repair services, & adapters and accessories. It is pretty transparent. I can't speak to every point, but with regards to the headphones jack the primary reason they removed it is because it's an enormous footprint requirement for something that's almost redundant when there is a lightning connector right there. Removing the headphones jack allowed that space to be used for something else (ie more battery), the fact that it worked within the business model is a lucky coincedence. I work in the semiconductor industry - I don't think you realize how critical PCB space is in those applications and how much it drives costs and functionality.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:57
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Halloween Jack posted:I am a crabby old man and I was never, ever young. But I don't remember ever gathering in public to thank a dead capitalist for the products he sold me. It's sick. Do you really suppose most Apple users would disagree with you? Steve Jobs was a kook who tried to eat fruit to cure his cancer, and by all accounts a fairly lovely human being, and I feel no particular emotion from the fact that he's dead now, beyond what I'd feel for any person being dead. I can still like Apple products.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:01
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Quandary posted:I can't speak to every point, but with regards to the headphones jack the primary reason they removed it is because it's an enormous footprint requirement for something that's almost redundant when there is a lightning connector right there. Removing the headphones jack allowed that space to be used for something else (ie more battery), the fact that it worked within the business model is a lucky coincedence. I work in the semiconductor industry - I don't think you realize how critical PCB space is in those applications and how much it drives costs and functionality. That's especially the case when, for anyone using headphones with a 1/8" jack, the space saving argument is completely negated and then some by needing an extra peripheral, it only makes sense when the endgame is to kill the 1/8" stereo jack. e: I mean you can extend the lightning connector argument to just having an even-smaller port that only delivers power and if you want to transfer data in/out then you have to use Bluetooth or Wi-Fi, then they don't need the USB controller either. Why don't they do that? Because they think the USB connection is too important, at least for now. Space maximization isn't everything, they find space for things that they think customers care about and don't find space for things they don't, and they can make space if they need to because they control the form factor. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 16:30
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OneEightHundred posted:That's all true, but the bottom line is still that they're doing it because they know that their customers will accept it and they've been down this road of aggressively ditching what they consider obsolete technologies many times before (68k, OS9, PPC, floppies, optical drives, Flash). They just have a "you'll thank us later" attitude, which tends to become true. I don't think they've aggressively ditched optical drives, though? There's just a limited use case for them at this point, and it's better served by external peripherals. Compared with some of those things, they first built up a system that made optical drives mostly unnecessary, and then got rid of having them built in. Thank god all those other things have gone away, mind you.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:36
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https://twitter.com/BrankoMilan/status/956373515455909893 Monopolies don't often use their power to raise prices but they do lower the amount paid to labor.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:41
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