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Inept posted:Nah, once you're vested, you can just get another job somewhere else and you'll still get a pension payout. It won't be as high as if you stayed for 40 years, but that's true of companies with 401(k) matching as well. Trusting a pension is probably as risky as relying on social security surviving at this point.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:19
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Yeah how can you even discuss any non federal government pension without mentioning the elephant of the last 30 years of pension bankruptcy/restructuring/organized corporate theft
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Jan 25, 2018 16:33
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pr0zac posted:Trusting a pension is probably as risky as relying on social security surviving at this point. If you want to get panicky about future possibilities, you can also look at 401(k) means testing for taxes. Nothing is guaranteed. Although social security will almost certainly exist, it just may pay out at a lower rate. (Same for government pensions) Krispy Wafer posted:Listening to people bitch about pensions, there's a big difference between 25 years of service and 30 years. I imagine a handful of 5 to 10 year service pensions would be miserable. As for company 401k vesting, most do it in 5 years or less. I know some pension funds will pay for retiree healthcare after a certain number of years, but other than that, the payout is fairly linear i.e. you get 1.75% of your top 4 earning years for each year of service or something along those lines. There's a hit, but it's not like you won't get anything. Also, you can still usually invest in a 401(k) or 403(b), and should. Inept fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 16:35
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Just look at what happened to Sears Canada, US Steel Canada and White Birch Papers retiree. Just naming the three most recent exemples I can recall.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:59
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Inept posted:If you want to get panicky about future possibilities, you can also look at 401(k) means testing for taxes. Nothing is guaranteed. Although social security will almost certainly exist, it just may pay out at a lower rate. (Same for government pensions) My grandfather got to keep his Lockheed healthcare until he died, but IBM shuffled my mom off to Medicare as soon as it was able. They did cover the gap between retirement and age 65 though. At this point I doubt many companies are keeping retiree healthcare any longer than they have to. I have a pretty dim view of pensions because I've had largely bad experiences with them. IBM in particular kept trying to find ways to crack open the billions in its pension plan and move people to 401k's with offers to 'catch-up' employer contributions that really didn't match what was promised. Pensions are nice to have and I'd love to still have a job that provided one, but they're not the cure-all this thread seems to think they are for retirement. Municipal pension plans, in particular, are in for a world of hurt as cities declare bankruptcy to get out of those obligations. We should probably use the same  for people who depend 100% on a pension plan as we do for people who depend 100% on Social Security.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:00
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Solice Kirsk posted:Invest your HELOC in $WEED for 2 years. Retire rich. Rich from drugs. totalnewbie posted:Marijuana is going to be a huge industry and there are going to be a lot of people who make a lot of money from it.. eventually. What a coincidence, this article just popped up: https://twocents.lifehacker.com/how-to-invest-in-legal-weed-1822368702
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Jan 25, 2018 17:03
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Krispy Wafer posted:Municipal pension plans, in particular, are in for a world of hurt as cities declare bankruptcy to get out of those obligations. We should probably use the same StrongTowns writes a lot about this and it turns out municipal pension plans and sprawl are going to be fantastically bad for cities, financially, over the next 10-20 years.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:35
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Wow this article in particular (that was posted above, I'm just endorsing it) makes millenials look like they've really learned something from watching a whole generation of idiots watch their big wooden IRAs go up in smoke in the financial collapse. https://www.planadviser.com/millennials-better-savers-than-boomers/
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Jan 25, 2018 17:38
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I didn't say pensions were a cure-all (or something to be relied on if you're not already old and getting your payouts), I just said they're not going to show up as an asset in those figures the way a 401(k) does. It's just another way the Boomers get a better deal than everyone younger than them.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:39
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feedmegin posted:I didn't say pensions were a cure-all (or something to be relied on if you're not already old and getting your payouts), I just said they're not going to show up as an asset in those figures the way a 401(k) does. It's just another way the Boomers get a better deal than everyone younger than them. No, you didn't say it's a cure-all, but this thread has historically been incredibly pro-pension without a lot of reflection on the disadvantages of them.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:42
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Krispy Wafer posted:No, you didn't say it's a cure-all, but this thread has historically been incredibly pro-pension without a lot of reflection on the disadvantages of them. Thread has been pro-pension when when someone is like, 3 months away from getting a much larger benefit but they leave early for dumb reasons.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:52
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/\/\/\ Yeah when Leon Trotsky used to post his short fiction that was a central theme! but that's about it as far as I can remember /\/\/\Krispy Wafer posted:No, you didn't say it's a cure-all, but this thread has historically been incredibly pro-pension without a lot of reflection on the disadvantages of them. I don't really remember this thread being strongly pro-pension at all!
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Jan 25, 2018 17:52
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I am strongly pro-pension in that if you have a pension I think you should probably keep it and not cash it out to buy bitcoins/horses/pour into a series of revolving truck leases.
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Jan 25, 2018 18:13
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I have several co workers that will retire with multiple pensions so I don't see the problem with switching jobs? It was also implied that a job with low turnover has people who are miserable but that doesn't make much sense to me - in my experience there is a positive correlation between turnover and job satisfaction. My previous job had high turnover, particularly the managers who often burned out in less than a year which kind of perpetuated the problem overall. In contrast my current job has low turnover ; I suppose we could attribute it to offering a pension but there's also retiree medical including your retired spouse, but there's also lots of room for lateral promotions if you get sick of being a Widget Technician for 30 years. Job hopping is always going to carry risks and there's no guarantee the job you move to will be overall better, or that your old job will still be there to go back to if you leave.
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Jan 25, 2018 18:23
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The firm in my example did not offer lateral promotions. The average and median age of workers was above fifty, and everybody was “only sticking around because of the pension, this company really went to the dog ten years ago.” If I’m ever CEO of a large company, I’d absolutely offer employees a solid RSP match, but that experience has soured me on pensions forever.
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Jan 25, 2018 18:27
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FrozenVent posted:The firm in my example did not offer lateral promotions. The average and median age of workers was above fifty, and everybody was “only sticking around because of the pension, this company really went to the dog ten years ago.” That's too bad. It is true people shouldn't be overly reliant on pensions especially if they are decades away from retiring and anything can happen along the way. Probably GWM to put your eggs in a lot of baskets just in case.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:02
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https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/579690595/the-mystery-of-contract-work-why-so-many-guysquote:A new NPR/Marist poll finds that 1 in 5 jobs in America is held by a worker under contract. Within a decade, contractors and freelancers could make up half of the American workforce. In a weeklong series, NPR explores many aspects of this change. quote:Meanwhile, Belfiori, the contract worker at Dick's Sporting Goods, is taking a couple of steps to build some financial security. One is very practical; the other is riskier and more adventurous.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:12
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Market bubbles are so entertaining. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/7sxucg/smart_decision_or_is_friend_taking_advantage_of/ quote:A long-time friend began trading FOREX and has made a significant amount of money, enough to quit his fulltime job and sustain himself on trading profits. He is averaging over 60% annually.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:12
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The poster’s friend isn’t even claiming a guaranteed 20% return. The poster just made that up.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:40
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Netflix movie The Polka King with Jack Black about Ponzi schemer/ polka band leader Jan Lewan was pretty good. There's a part of me that feels like there's some culpability with Ponzi scheme victims because there's an element of greed that gets them there, but most of this guy's victims were a vulnerable population of old people 
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Jan 25, 2018 20:07
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Droo posted:Market bubbles are so entertaining. So the FOREX trader gets money if he gambles well, and loses nothing if he gambles poorly. FOREX friend is GWM.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:24
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canyoneer posted:Netflix movie The Polka King with Jack Black about Ponzi schemer/ polka band leader Jan Lewan was pretty good. This was filmed in my town, you can even see my former employers road cases in the first scene. It was a great movie btw.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:29
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Inept posted:So the FOREX trader gets money if he gambles well, and loses nothing if he gambles poorly. FOREX friend is GWM. The trader only makes money if he gambles extremely well.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:40
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That's why he will make riskier bets. Not like he has any incentive to do otherwise.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:41
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Inept posted:the payout is fairly linear i.e. you get 1.75% of your top 4 earning years for each year of service or something along those lines. The payout is linear per year of service, but there's still non-linearity in the system when you have multiple pensions. When you leave a company, you not only stop accumulating years of service, your wage base for the calculation also stops going up (since people tend to earn more as they age). This can lead to a significant difference in payout between people who have the exact same salary history and pension formulas, but different # of lifetime employers.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:11
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Most use average wage so assuming you switch jobs for more money you should earn more pension with more jobs.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:37
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Noticed today there's a checkbox in craigslist searches for "cryptocurrency ok"
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Jan 25, 2018 22:53
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Elephanthead posted:Most use average wage so assuming you switch jobs for more money you should earn more pension with more jobs. Every pension I've ever seen has been some form of "average of last 4-5 years" or "average of highest 4-5 years". I've never seen any that were average of your entire tenor, otherwise you'd actively be incentivized to leave.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:02
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It's average of highest five years working for that employer in most places. Might exclude bonuses and overtime too.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:05
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My pension from my first job was: Highest 5-year salary average, multiplied by (1.4% x Years of Service, capped at 35 years), then roughly divided by 2 if (Years of service + Age <= 85) at time of departure. It worked out to approximately a 50% vesting in your final five years but was in theory linear up until then. Why no, there's no incentive at all to lay off people approaching retirement, why would you say such a thing?  I accepted an $11,000 buyout rather than accept the $85 a month I'd get starting in 2057, which did not adjust for CoL/inflation, of course. Nobody has offered a pension since then, and my old company discontinued re-hires accruing more years of service, so even if I went back I couldn't get any more vesting.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:11
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Yes, pensions use those last few years which is why you're so incentivized to make as much as possible before you retire. The helpful retirement tool at AT&T told me my pension after a decade there would be $92 a month. If I work 40 years at 4 different companies with similar pension plans I am loving poor as poo poo even with Social Security. Had I stayed with the Death Star for that whole time I'd have received about $3700 each month, but I would have hated myself. So a piecemeal pile of pension plans is not going to provide anywhere near what a fully vested plan pays out. Edit: wasn't trying to humblebrag. I'm not sure what the percent of pay was for 30 years of work (50%, 75% don't know). Just guessed on a number. The $92 amount just stuck in my brain because that's all I'd get for a decade? Really? Krispy Wafer fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 23:16
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I started handing out 6ers for (most) self-post/humble brag reports. It's entirely up to the community, so if you make posts like that, at least keep them interesting.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:23
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I have no idea how my pension works because I'm not vested for another 2 years so haven't bothered looking. I'm a financial professional. Entertaining bit: 
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Jan 26, 2018 01:45
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Yeah? They'll let anyone call themselves a "professional" these days.
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Jan 26, 2018 03:04
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canyoneer posted:Netflix movie The Polka King with Jack Black about Ponzi schemer/ polka band leader Jan Lewan was pretty good. Great attention to detail in that movie:  The first "Mentor" to flee the LLR sinking ship is now accusing them of tax fraud. 
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Jan 26, 2018 03:25
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Krispy Wafer posted:Listening to people bitch about pensions, there's a big difference between 25 years of service and 30 years. I imagine a handful of 5 to 10 year service pensions would be miserable. As for company 401k vesting, most do it in 5 years or less. Doctors are the best. quote:Gross pay on W-2 is $34K less than my salary. Did I get shortchanged? code:
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Jan 26, 2018 06:24
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Krispy Wafer posted:My grandfather got to keep his Lockheed healthcare until he died, but IBM shuffled my mom off to Medicare as soon as it was able. They did cover the gap between retirement and age 65 though. At this point I doubt many companies are keeping retiree healthcare any longer than they have to. Municipal pensions aren't necessarily bad. Many states have the option to allow municipalities to utilize the state's pension plan, given that they meet the same obligations the state does in order to keep the pension going the way it has to go. If you're a municipality in a state that has a well tended pension fund, then utilizing a deal like that can be really GWM. However, the opposite is true if you're a muni in a state with a poorly tended pension fund. Here's a handy graphic of how well off pension funds were in the different states https://taxfoundation.org/state-pensions-funding-2017/. I wouldn't be betting too hard on an Illinois or Kentucky pension, but would bet money on an Oregon or South Dakota pension. With regards to having to stick in one job for 30 years, that may be true with megacorps like AT&T, but with the above mentioned types of reciprocal muni/state agreements, its possible to float around state and muni positions as well as maybe university jobs and keep your pension building. Makes me curious if NYC utilizes NY state's pension system or not. Surprised me that NY has such a highly funded pension fund.
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Jan 26, 2018 12:28
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Wasn't there a thing (in Alaska IIRC) where a state fired everybody then rehired them, so they lost all their pension entitlements in the process?
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Jan 26, 2018 12:30
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SweetSassyMolassy posted:Municipal pensions aren't necessarily bad. Many states have the option to allow municipalities to utilize the state's pension plan, given that they meet the same obligations the state does in order to keep the pension going the way it has to go. If you're a municipality in a state that has a well tended pension fund, then utilizing a deal like that can be really GWM. However, the opposite is true if you're a muni in a state with a poorly tended pension fund. Here's a handy graphic of how well off pension funds were in the different states https://taxfoundation.org/state-pensions-funding-2017/. I wouldn't be betting too hard on an Illinois or Kentucky pension, but would bet money on an Oregon or South Dakota pension. Obviously Illinois needs to invade Wisconsin and raid their pensions. Each household in Illinois' tax liability for the state pension plan is $40k.
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Jan 26, 2018 13:11
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SiGmA_X posted:My company just froze the pension for all eligible employees - and they stopped offering it to new employees around 15yrs ago. Shortly after we went public, it can't be linked. Upside is with the freeze, they raised the match from 6% to 9%, so as a 401k-only employee, I am happy about it. OOo god drat that's the good stuff.
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Jan 26, 2018 13:32
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