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hey, remember a few days ago when this was a Brilliant Play To Preserve DACA loooool
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Jan 25, 2018 20:43
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isn't this just the politico article with a slate wrapper?
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Jan 25, 2018 20:43
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Trabisnikof posted:isn't this just the politico article with a slate wrapper? They directly reference the politico article for its thrust, yes.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:45
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Trabisnikof posted:isn't this just the politico article with a slate wrapper? It’s literally reporting the politico article yeah.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:45
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like this isn't even taking a run at the football and missing, this is straight up turning around and walking away because trying would be hard l-o-loving-l
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Jan 25, 2018 20:45
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Kilroy posted:I don't know how you can expect to keep control of the caucus when there are absolutely no consequences for defection ever. The Democratic party is still going to do everything they can to help Manchin crush Swearengin in the WV primary, and they'd do that even if he voted in lockstep with the GOP. Same for every other conservative Democrat. Scuttlebutt is that Manchin was planning on retiring; he was talked out of it by Donnelly and Heitcamp, who are also moderate Dems up for election in red states. I assume they were worried about dnc funding being split. Manchin doesn't need help from the party so that money goes to other senators.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:45
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axelord posted:Cherry picking polls to support your position doesn't give your argument the authority that you think it does. You come off as dishonest or at best willfully ignorant. If you've got more polling please share it. I'm not cherry picking polls, there are two polls out since the shutdown as far as I know, and they're broadly consistent. When you make evidence-free attacks only the only evidence that's been presented, you come off as defensive or at best lazy. quote:Approval of Democrats handling of DACA is only a useful statistic in regard to the shutdown if you had a trend line with approval before and after the shutdown. A single data point is meaningless. You really shouldn't be making conclusions off a single poll either. A trend line with approval of democrats handling of DACA would be great but I'm not sure it exists. We can also make a useful comparison between approval of Democrats handling of DACA in congress and approval of democrats in congress generally. I made this comparison, and it supports the argument I've made.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:53
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Those cowardly fucks.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:58
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/956518963034370049 https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/956521744382259206
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Jan 25, 2018 21:01
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I'm absolutely blanking but who was the activist that called Pelosi and Schumer out way back in September for abandoning the Dreamers only to be attacked for not showing sufficient faith and that he was the real problem? It was pretty much textbook Democrat "you are the reason stuff failed if you complain when we gently caress you over" playbook and lo an behold it looks like he was absolutely right but the fact that this was seen coming has been lost to history.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:12
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You may be thinking of representative Luis Gutiérrez
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Jan 25, 2018 21:15
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God drat Democrats, yall couldn't even pretend for three whole days that you aren't going to sell out eight hundred thousand people that you put in this position in the first place. I've never been so hyped to not vote in my life.Radish posted:I'm absolutely blanking but who was the activist that called Pelosi and Schumer out way back in September for abandoning the Dreamers only to be attacked for not showing sufficient faith and that he was the real problem? It was pretty much textbook Democrat "you are the reason stuff failed if you complain when we gently caress you over" playbook and lo an behold it looks like he was absolutely right but the fact that this was seen coming has been lost to history. Is this what you are thinking of? https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Dreamers-Accuse-Pelosi-Other-Dems-of-Deportation-445419613.html quote:After smiling and occasionally trying to speak through much of the protest, an aggravated Pelosi told the protesters to “just stop it, now."After smiling and occasionally trying to speak through much of the protest, an aggravated Pelosi told the protesters to “just stop it, now." Iron Twinkie fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 21:15
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Accountability is for the forsaken.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:15
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it'd sure be easier to vote the lesser evil if the lesser evil actually tried to fight the greater evil instead of aiding and abetting it
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Jan 25, 2018 21:17
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Chomskyan posted:You may be thinking of representative Luis Gutiérrez Yeah that was him.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:20
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Iron Twinkie posted:God drat Democrats, yall couldn't even pretend for three whole days that you aren't going to sell out eight hundred thousand people that you put in this position in the first place. I've never been so hyped to not vote in my life. Vote third party if there’s no good option. It lets the political classes know where you stand and makes centrists so mad. All staying home does is let people write you off as lazy.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:22
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readingatwork posted:Vote third party if there’s no good option. It lets the political classes know where you stand and makes centrists so mad. All staying home does is let people write you off as lazy. this. staying home is bad. voting for a "lesser evil" that is ok with genociding dreamers is also bad. maybe if people didn't hold their nose and vote for shitdems they wouldn't be comfortable letting dreamers get hosed over like this as it is though they feel like there's no consequences for that type of behavior, and all the "vote the lesser evil always" people ensure there aren't any consequences for lovely, evil behavior
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Jan 25, 2018 21:26
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I mean, my decision on weather I'm going to try to vote is going to hinge on if there are any ballot initiatives that matter. Though I suspect I'll leave the rest of my ballot blank.
Iron Twinkie fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 21:29
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Iron Twinkie posted:I mean, my decision on weather I'm going to try to vote is going to hinge on if there are any ballot initiatives that matter. Though I suspect I'll leave the rest of by ballot blank. write in a candidate you like if there's no-one good to vote for
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Jan 25, 2018 21:30
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Why is everyone losing their mind over 12d chess pragmatism?
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Jan 25, 2018 21:33
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readingatwork posted:Vote third party if there’s no good option. It lets the political classes know where you stand and makes centrists so mad. All staying home does is let people write you off as lazy. I don't think this is true, though. If anything it feels like the past year has demonstrated that any attempt to demonstrate the failures of the party and its candidates only results in an exponential series of double downs, partly because their interest is not at all in allowing a leftward drift. If your priorities are as right-wing as the Democratic establishment then there is no real benefit to tacking on a platform of social democracy, especially if you're one of those representatives who can retire into guaranteed life security. The idea that it even still exists within the paradigm where its bare minimum purpose as a political party is to win elections seems increasingly suspect, insomuch that its fundraising apparatus and support system will allow the whole thing to jump off a cliff if the political trends of the next generation breach a certain ideological line. The point we're at, actions like voting third party for the sake of sending a message might be missing the forest for the trees.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:34
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The thing is that it's not like the GOP are master politicians constantly outfoxing the clueless democrats - it's just that the game the GOP are playing is easier. It's true that they're playing an easier game, and it's also true that the GOP aren't master strategists or tacticians or communicators; they're pretty dumb, on the whole. All that said, the Democratic leadership really is, somehow, dumber. They've managed to warp reality and somehow be dumber than the dumbest.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:46
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Frankly I think the country is beyond saving since the ruling class (which includes most Democratic politicians) has basically decided to go all out total war on everyone and feel they have a militarized police to protect them if somehow the system really starts to fail but anyone that's trying to really change stuff like the DSA or primary shitfucker Democrats are heroes.
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 21:47
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Radish posted:I'm absolutely blanking but who was the activist that called Pelosi and Schumer out way back in September for abandoning the Dreamers only to be attacked for not showing sufficient faith and that he was the real problem? It was pretty much textbook Democrat "you are the reason stuff failed if you complain when we gently caress you over" playbook and lo an behold it looks like he was absolutely right but the fact that this was seen coming has been lost to history. Chomskyan posted:You may be thinking of representative Luis Gutiérrez Yeah, evilweasel's enraged posts at me defending Gutierrez and not having sufficient faith in ~MOTHER~ are pretty lol in retrospect.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:48
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Democrats are absolutely going to pull the same "we can't have town halls because of SECURITY CONCERNS" once people find out they aren't doing poo poo and get angry crowds yelling at them like the Dreamers.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:50
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Radish posted:I'm absolutely blanking but who was the activist that called Pelosi and Schumer out way back in September for abandoning the Dreamers only to be attacked for not showing sufficient faith and that he was the real problem? It was pretty much textbook Democrat "you are the reason stuff failed if you complain when we gently caress you over" playbook and lo an behold it looks like he was absolutely right but the fact that this was seen coming has been lost to history. Every single imbecile in this forum or otherwise who attacked Gutierrez and praised Pelosi and Schumer should make a significant donation to United we dream. Here: https://unitedwedream.org Hell, I'll even pretend that that didn't happen if people donate.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:56
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Well the core of the issue is that the Democrats don't want to push too hard because they are honestly fearful of radicalization, in particularly left-wing radicalization. They rather lose with decorum than be put in a position where they base actually gets energized because they know that will eventually put them out of a job and/or they are fearful of the results of a left-wing shift. It is also why there really isn't much hope, any victory will be brief and fleeting. If Republicans are Nazis, the Democrats are the Vichy.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:07
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The thing is that it's not like the GOP are master politicians constantly outfoxing the clueless democrats - it's just that the game the GOP are playing is easier. All they need to do is dig in their heels and do nothing because they know they don't lose votes when poo poo goes wrong; the Dems are the ones that consistently have to work just to get people out to the polls. If everyone voted every election, the Republicans would likely get crushed, but when people don't vote for whatever reason (either from Republican suppression efforts or just plain "don't like either choice enough to care"), the Republicans consistently show better numbers, because their base is more reliable. You forgot to mention one pretty big factor here, which is that when the GOP get voted in they start giving the base what they want, whereas when the Dems get voted in they start pissing on the base and demanding that the base like it. And then when potential Dem voters don't turn out the Dems act all shocked and confused and get mad at the electorate for failing their betters.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:25
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https://twitter.com/thehill/status/956311431162613760quote:The legislation, from GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), would make it illegal for any person to perform or attempt an abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy, with the possible penalty of five years in prison, fines or both.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:27
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how many dems will vote with republicans to pass this?
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Jan 25, 2018 22:28
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 gently caress. Oh no but guys Graham is so cool and blah blah loving blah.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:29
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Condiv posted:how many dems will vote with republicans to pass this? Well it's a 60 voter, so it would require quite a lot of votes. Something like this passing would warrant killing the Party with a shovel to its brain.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:30
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 : all life is sacred and must be saved!*baby born* 👶: goo goo : get a job freeloader👶: ☠👼
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Jan 25, 2018 22:35
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https://twitter.com/verainstitute/status/956549307557122048
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Jan 25, 2018 22:41
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people, people decorum please
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Jan 25, 2018 22:43
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Good thing the Democratic Party is still taking more and more money from private prisons.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:44
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Ardennes posted:They rather lose with decorum than be put in a position where they base actually gets energized because they know that will eventually put them out of a job and/or they are fearful of the results of a left-wing shift. The main problem I have with this is that the self-reported base has largely forgiven George W Bush, likes HRC (78% favorable), and unconditionally loves Obama (95% favorable). They got excited about President Oprah. In other words, their politics are largely loyalty-driven personality-based trash.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:50
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Mr Hootington posted:
They just renewed CHIP for six more years a few days ago.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:51
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Seriously, if any dem votes for this they should be an instant primary target. Condiv posted:how many dems will vote with republicans to pass this? Kaine comes to mind.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:53
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https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/956643135928627205
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Jan 25, 2018 22:57
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