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stillvisions posted:tweaking random sounds for an hour is usually the way to kill a music session for me, not start it. i set aside at least an hour a day every day to sit in front of my stuff and "make music" some days i have a song idea in my head and ill do that by just grabbing presets and those sessions usually last 2-3 hours because if im in that mindset im not stopping until i have to some days i don't have a song idea in my head but i will still force myself to make a patch that sounds good to me, usually about an hour because im at the point of just messing with eq setting on effects at about the 45 minute mark, but those last 15-20 minutes of doing that while tedious usually make that patch later on or if i don't feel like sound design or have a song idea ill just practice playing... which always turns into one of the first two days since ill explore a tangent on a new progression or something
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Jan 26, 2018 19:36
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MrSargent posted:I was watching an interview with Lido where he talked about this and I really liked his response. He basically said "I make music, I don't make sounds. And the two are completely different skills." Now, this I couldn't disagree with more. The separation of "music" from "sound" is totally archaic, like going back to the European Academies of Art sort of rigid rulemaking. I would refer to John Cage's question: "Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory or a truck passing by a music school? Are the people inside the school musical and the ones outside unmusical?". Nuances of timbre are absolutely as much of a musical device as anything else. If what it is you want to say with your collection of sound does not care or depend too much on the quality of that sound then cool, focus on this bits that are important to you, but this rigid distinction of what is or isn't music is completely backward to modern understanding of art, and it's counterproductive.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:44
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Gringostar posted:i set aside at least an hour a day every day to sit in front of my stuff and "make music" When I had a more stressful job, I would sit down and at least try work on something every day. I found that most days, I would get in the groove and end up working for most of the night, even though I wasn't feeling inspired when I first sat down.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:49
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speaking of sound design, im finally going to get into modular  and still need some advice about utility modules and the likehow often should i spam this thread with modular grid setups so everyone can laugh at me being a dumb rear end since gearslutz is a dumpster fire to a ask anything in and muffs just gives responses of "use the search function" (which i do) now
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Jan 26, 2018 19:50
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Gringostar posted:speaking of sound design, im finally going to get into modular Just buy a bunch of poo poo you want. I mean, the "prudent" thing to do would be to use VCV Rack or get like a Nord Modular or something, and really figure out what it is you want to do with modular, and then go get pieces that fit into what you've liked to do. But who the gently caress wants to be reasonable and sensible? Just buy some modules you think look fun and seem fun. You'll probably have forgotten some essential poo poo. You'll get some poo poo you don't end up doing gently caress all with. Oh well, you learned something about yourself along the way. Just make sure you got an OSC, a filter or LPG, something that can create slopes/envelopes, and probably a mixer (like CV mixer heh), and a way to send it CV/GATE and go to town. Have fun.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:54
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Gringostar posted:speaking of sound design, im finally going to get into modular I dont knwo poo poo about modular or synths but this, like the bass thread is one of the chillest music centric communities i know
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Jan 26, 2018 19:54
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Plavski posted:laidback luke had some tweets that caused a bit of a ruckus recently along those lines This is good stuff. We touched on the topic earlier in regards to "cheating" with sample libraries and such and the fact of the matter is; professionals who design this stuff for a living brought you those presets. They're no more "cheating" than using a particular brand guitar or amp because you want "that sound". Besides, the wonderful thing about presets (like you mentioned) is that you can tweak them. Maybe you already have an idea of what kind of sound you want; find the preset that's closest and tweak it! Maybe you don't have any idea of what kind of sound you want; play around with presets and maybe you'll find some inspiration! So many times I've browsed through presets and thought "wow, this would sound great if ...." and then I tweaked it to my liking. I don't see how this is any different from any other instrument v  v
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Jan 26, 2018 20:29
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toadee posted:Now, this I couldn't disagree with more. The separation of "music" from "sound" is totally archaic, like going back to the European Academies of Art sort of rigid rulemaking. I would refer to John Cage's question: "Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory or a truck passing by a music school? Are the people inside the school musical and the ones outside unmusical?". Nuances of timbre are absolutely as much of a musical device as anything else. If what it is you want to say with your collection of sound does not care or depend too much on the quality of that sound then cool, focus on this bits that are important to you, but this rigid distinction of what is or isn't music is completely backward to modern understanding of art, and it's counterproductive. Creating sounds from scratch is a completely different skill than arranging various sounds into a piece of work. I'm not sure what is so controversial about that statement. Nowhere did I say the nuances of sounds and sound design aren't important to music, I said it's not important that someone interested in making music know how to design every sound you use from scratch.
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Jan 26, 2018 20:30
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I gotta say, just from the last ~3 pages, this thread has become my favourite on the forums. Some goddamned good input (heh  ) here, goons, I appreciate it all, and am really rethinking what I want to get out of the limited time I have in front of something like Serum or ImpOscar. Cheers, all 
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Jan 26, 2018 20:45
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MrSargent posted:Creating sounds from scratch is a completely different skill than arranging various sounds into a piece of work. I'm not sure what is so controversial about that statement. Nowhere did I say the nuances of sounds and sound design aren't important to music, I said it's not important that someone interested in making music know how to design every sound you use from scratch. It could actually be very important that someone interested in making music know how to design every sound they use from scratch, is my point. It depends on the music they want to make. A rigid distinction between "sound" and "music" and "sound design" and "music design" is, like I say, an archaic and restrictive way of looking at it. For some peoples' music, the nuances of sound and sound design ARE the music.
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Jan 26, 2018 20:49
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cool current modules im looking at are the tyme safari 2 with asot or the morphagene since i want to gently caress up what the rest of my gear does as the main focus also looking at either rings or elements since nothing else i have does the physical modeling stuff and i like the audio processing of them planning on getting a double andore and streams for modulation and vcas but wondering if i need more modulation sources like maths or rampage yarns for an osc and midi since my mpc will handle sequencing and zorlon for noise + semi random triggers, wondering if i need more controllers or triggers demora will be my filters, delay, and interface to my mixer (mx 1) mixer, no clue. frames looks good but there aren't good demos of it and i want to keep a stereo signal path and the 500 series mixer looks good but might be too traditional maybe so far that's it
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Jan 26, 2018 20:57
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toadee posted:It could actually be very important that someone interested in making music know how to design every sound they use from scratch, is my point[/b] Key word, could. It is completely optional and there are plenty of producers and songwriters that couldn't tell you how to make a basic pluck, but write incredible music. If you are interested in sound design, have at it! But if you just want to write music, you should not feel like you have to know how to design individual sounds. It's like the story of the guy who wanted to make music with sounds all from scratch, ends up teaching himself how to make the individual instruments that produce the sounds, and never writes a song. There are literally people that design synth presets for a living so it is absolutely a distinct skill.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:05
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MrSargent posted:There are literally people that design synth presets for a living so it is absolutely a distinct skill. This is sincerely something I want to get into.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:06
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I mean, I hate all them drat DSP with screens and poo poo modules (even the one I have that just has a screen to pick a microtuning.scl file from a list of files is annoying to me), but if you think you'll like 'em then this buds for you I guess. I see you've selected something and mention "because nothing else I have does the physical modeling stuff" -- are you sure you need physical modeling stuff? I mean I dunno maybe you do, but like, I guess if it were me these are the questions I'd be asking. I'm pretty sure all the stuff you're talking about would be pretty easy to sell so I wouldn't sweat it too much.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:09
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MrSargent posted:Key word, could. It is completely optional and there are plenty of producers and songwriters that couldn't tell you how to make a basic pluck, but write incredible music. If you are interested in sound design, have at it! But if you just want to write music, you should not feel like you have to know how to design individual sounds. It's like the story of the guy who wanted to make music with sounds all from scratch, ends up teaching himself how to make the individual instruments that produce the sounds, and never writes a song. There are literally people that design synth presets for a living so it is absolutely a distinct skill. But here you are, differentiating sound design from music again, as though arranging things into bars and chords is "real music" whereas making a 21 minute long sonic robot fart isn't.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:10
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I mean, being good at sampling and having the patience to dig through crates and slice and sequence poo poo is just as much sound design as futzing with synthesis knobs. It’s all different approaches to the same basic end goal: making music that interests you and sometimes others. Some people do that through theory and arrangement, some people do it through production design, some people do it by learning three chords and having something to say. Whatever works, man. Just know your workflow, and if you want to try something new, do it.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:12
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toadee posted:But here you are, differentiating sound design from music again, as though arranging things into bars and chords is "real music" whereas making a 21 minute long sonic robot fart isn't. I'm not the one differentiating between them. Musician/Songwriter and Sound Designer are literally distinct professions. You can certainly combine them, but plenty don't.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:22
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I agree with both toadee and MrSargent, it really depends on the person and the music. Playing the knobs or playing the presets, you're still making sound and that's good. That said you don't need to learn become a luthier before learning to play a violin and likewise you don't need to learn subtractive synthesis before making kickass electronic music. Synths certainly have a lot of potential for tweaking and you might argue that that potential is being squandered if the person is just using presets but frankly that's a pretty dumb elitist opinion  Sound design is a profession for a reason.Personally I spent a ton of time learning subtractive synthesis but even with all that knowledge I'm rarely making any groundbreaking sounds or patches because, surprise, just like making a song it takes a lot of creative inspiration to make an interesting patch that isn't just Stock Bass Sound #4 or PWM Synth Lead #7. Personally I'm glad I did spend all that time learning synthesis though, because it makes it a lot easier to take a preset sound and tweak it to my liking. Then again, if I didn't have that knowledge and just tweaked knobs at random I might've made even more interesting sounds so who knows. Whatever sounds good, friends.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:24
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toadee posted:But here you are, differentiating sound design from music again, as though arranging things into bars and chords is "real music" whereas making a 21 minute long sonic robot fart isn't. you're being obtuse dude. obviously no advice on this topic is gonna apply to everyone, but Joe Sixpack checking youtube for ableton tips is making EDM. that means "traditional" songwriting skills are going to take precedence over preset design.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:32
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LOVE LOVE SKELETON posted:you're being obtuse dude. obviously no advice on this topic is gonna apply to everyone, but Joe Sixpack checking youtube for ableton tips is making EDM. that means "traditional" songwriting skills are going to take precedence over preset design. I'm trying to encourage people to not be Joe Sixpack v v
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Jan 26, 2018 21:36
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Gringostar posted:cool Harvestman stuff (PH, HD, ZC, DA, most of the main line I think) is about to get a MK3 update (lmao I bought a PH2 the night before he announced PH3), but he said specifically not the Tyme Safari or the sequencer cause he's pretty happy w/ them. Yarns is probably good to start; CV.OCD is comparable - no osc, cheaper, no hp, could add one on later. I don't actually know this and you might be fine but make sure rings and elements can do line level stuff fine if you're planning on processing line level signal from outside your modular, otherwise you'll need an input. Frames is really cool but its not really a traditional stereo audio mixer, though you do you tbh. You definitely want more modulation/envs/vcas/mults/mixers/routers than you think you do, even when you have "enough" having extras makes patches come alive. If you can DIY, those utility modules and mutable stuff are cheap and fun to do. Idk if you can solder or are interested in learning but building a synth is a really good carrot (and then spending money on tools and parts instead of retail modules becomes the stick). It can be its own time/money pit especially if you're not the right kind of disciplined, but its been super rewarding for me.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:07
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JamesKPolk posted:Harvestman stuff (PH, HD, ZC, DA, most of the main line I think) is about to get a MK3 update (lmao I bought a PH2 the night before he announced PH3), but he said specifically not the Tyme Safari or the sequencer cause he's pretty happy w/ them. i saw the mk3 harvestman announcement which is why i took the piston honda off my list. Still might get one (ext sound being modified by the wavetable is amazing) but i want to see how the mk3 compares to the mk2, especially since the lfo functionality is suppose to be fairly different between the two versions now CV.OCD looks cool, and alternatives to what i already know are exactly the feedback i was looking for i know the TS takes line level and my plan was to run it through that first anyway frames does look cool, but do I don't know if cool will be what i need. really wish a good "this is how this module works" video was out there for it i thought so on the modulation thing, thanks for confirming it diy... maybe.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:30
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Jan 26, 2018 23:01
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LOVE LOVE SKELETON posted:but Joe Sixpack checking youtube for ableton tips is making EDM. Suppose I do want to make 21 minute robot farts, are there good ableton instruction videos for that? That’s a serious question btw. I’m never going to start by writing melodies, I don’t even have consistent rhythms. My recording knowledge is way out of date and I need to learn how do do weirdo free form stuff.
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Jan 26, 2018 23:06
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I like that like tweet. Finishing music is the most important part.
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Jan 26, 2018 23:13
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A lot of bedroom musicians would benefit making from music in a band. It very effectively teaches you to kill your darlings
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Jan 26, 2018 23:35
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Snowy posted:Suppose I do want to make 21 minute robot farts, are there good ableton instruction videos for that? not as far as i'm aware, and i think it would really depend on where specifically you're having problems. unless you've got a certain issue in mind, just getting sound in the computer and playing with it is as good a start as any.
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Jan 26, 2018 23:54
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LOVE LOVE SKELETON posted:not as far as i'm aware, and i think it would really depend on where specifically you're having problems. unless you've got a certain issue in mind, just getting sound in the computer and playing with it is as good a start as any. Yeah I guess you’re right, just thought I’d throw it out there since it was sorta mentioned 
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Jan 27, 2018 00:01
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https://www.sonicstate.com/news/2018/01/26/namm-2018-beghringer-drop-a-new-synth-neutron/ Uli is going straight for the moogular
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Jan 27, 2018 00:03
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Dyna Soar posted:A lot of bedroom musicians would benefit making from music in a band. It very effectively teaches you to kill your darlings I haven't had the opportunity to do much other than collaborate with others, but I try to take on that mindset. Do I love it? Then I try not to obsess over it, and just keep writing.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:13
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Semi modular is fun to play with and make weird sounds. The neutron intrigues me. And it's supposed to be 250 quid. Hard not to buy it at that point.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:47
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Laserjet 4P posted:https://www.sonicstate.com/news/2018/01/26/namm-2018-beghringer-drop-a-new-synth-neutron/ The man is a demon
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Jan 27, 2018 01:05
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hahaha the only stuff i work on for eight hours are my eight hour pieces 
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Jan 27, 2018 02:07
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Plavski posted:get the song right first, then get the sounds right.
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Jan 27, 2018 02:11
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mrbradlymrmartin posted:hahaha the only stuff i work on for eight hours are my eight hour pieces Hey that's cool, I make the sounds first then play them all at the same time and that is the song. I had to try to wipe my brain of that song right first poo poo.
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Jan 27, 2018 02:24
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Snowy posted:Hey that's cool, I make the sounds first then play them all at the same time and that is the song. I had to try to wipe my brain of that song right first poo poo. yeah like, im happy switching thru presets but tell somebody after theyve set 3 EGs , 4 lfos, 3 vcos, and 2 distortions but hasnt yet turned the filter down enough for your liking  least i 8 gotta complain bout names right ? my friends call me bebop and i perform as live sound design 
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Jan 27, 2018 03:02
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Gringostar posted:speaking of sound design, im finally going to get into modular You've already got some great answers from other people in this thread. I just wanted to throw in a couple more things I wish I knew earlier or did slightly different: If you decide you want a 1U row at all, be aware that there are two different form factors. This is dumb but it's reality and you gotta deal with it if you go 1U. Modulation sources are going to come in two flavors: those that have a minimum value of 0 volts, and those that have a negative number for the minimum voltage. This means your modulation inputs are going to suffer the same problem. You can live with this early on, but the sooner you get utilities to help, the happier you'll be. The Maths outputs 0 to 8 volts when cycling and acting as an LFO, this Doepfer A-147-2 outputs -4 to 4 volts for triangle, sign, and rectangle shapes. Getting something to help tune and keep things in tune will help a lot. I'm nearly two years into the Eurorack hole, and I finally got an in-rack tuner in the last month: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/l-1-digital-tuner. Yes, it's silly to have an in-rack tuner and you can probably get away with any other tuner, but Eurorack by its nature is silly, so just embrace getting goofy modules. I'm much happier now than when I was tuning with an out of rack tuner. You can't really make mistakes with what modules you acquire. There are just going to be modules that will enable you to do a lot more with what you already have. Yeah, ten sound sources and no modulation sources or filters is going to be dumb to a lot of people, but chase your modular bliss. You wouldn't be thinking of getting into modular if you wanted to make perfect decisions on the hardware you get.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:58
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I feel like substance and form are in a dialectical relation with one another and therefore sounds want to meet their extrapolation as music and vice versa.
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Jan 27, 2018 05:18
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Snowy posted:Hey that's cool, I make the sounds first then play them all at the same time and that is the song. I had to try to wipe my brain of that song right first poo poo. It's funny because I'm very much the opposite and I constantly fight against it. Somewhere deep in my heart I am a four-minute-pop-song whore, and when I need to do something less structured and catchy than that it's a source of deep existential angst for me. Which is an issue, because I'm doing more and more soundtracks nowadays where zippy, catchy tracks really aren't always appropriate. Trig Discipline fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 08:25
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Uli says they plan to ship the neutron at the end of April and now the factory is up and running, this is very likely. They'll be releasing more info over the coming weeks. 56 patch point analog synth at behringer prices will be hard to resist. Semi modular is great!
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Jan 27, 2018 09:55
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