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Puppy Time posted:"Good graphics" is extremely easy to demonstrate and to advertise, especially high definition realism. You show the audience an image, done. It helps that nice pictures really easily impress most people, which is enough to gain a fair amount of sales. I know that, but people are also getting more and more wise to this. Hell, just look at the poo poo Ubisoft pulled with the Watch Dogs teaser at E3.
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Jan 26, 2018 17:23
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any talk of development costs and developers getting less money from sales necessitating higher prices and microtransactions falls apart when you remember how much of the money a game makes goes to shareholders and executives rather than the teams that actually developed the game. smash capitalism rather than punishing and exploiting consumers.
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Jan 26, 2018 18:34
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ApeHawk posted:I know that, but people are also getting more and more wise to this. Hell, just look at the poo poo Ubisoft pulled with the Watch Dogs teaser at E3. The point is that, lying aside, it's still massively easier to get sales based on graphics than less immediately obvious things. Even if companies were afflicted with a curse preventing them from lying about how good their graphics are, they'd still bear wayyyy down on the graphics stuff, because that is hands down the most efficient marketing method.
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Jan 26, 2018 18:43
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Uhg, Brad has gone and RUINED the ENTIRE Cinema Snob. He changed the Favicon on his website: http://www.thecinemasnob.com/favicon.ico How DARE he make his icon look EXACTLY like the default icon for Weebly site maker? #NotMyFavicon
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Jan 26, 2018 18:56
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financially racist posted:any talk of development costs and developers getting less money from sales necessitating higher prices and microtransactions falls apart when you remember how much of the money a game makes goes to shareholders and executives rather than the teams that actually developed the game. Basically this. The fact is, big publishers are currently making huge bank for the most part off games and yet devs aren't getting any more resources. Why on earth should I or anyone else believe raising the standard AAA price by say $20 would actually make things better for the developers then, rather than add another $20 to the pockets of people at the top? Oh sure, I'd imagine they'd at first pay lip-service to the idea of giving some of it to devs for the PR, to make it more palatable to consumers. But there is no doubt in my mind they'd soon find a way to cut that all away again until the vast majority of that extra money doesn't get anywhere near the developers. And it certainly wouldn't make those executives suddenly want to take more risks instead of frothing at the mouth at how many extra $$$ they can make off the next COD or whatever instead.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:21
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Puppy Time posted:"Good graphics" is extremely easy to demonstrate and to advertise, especially high definition realism. You show the audience an image, done. It helps that nice pictures really easily impress most people, which is enough to gain a fair amount of sales. Yeah, but there are also weirdos like me, who look at two different super-graphic shots and with every passing tech generation, it gets harder for us to see a difference. "Good graphics" is mostly psychological. In truth, it already entered the stadium of diminishing returns and everything above that is the mental equivalent of a economical bubble, if that makes sense. Sooner or later enough people will have wised up to make the entire thing come crashing down. In a way, you could even argue that things like the rising number of retro and indy games are already a sign of things to come.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:40
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Uh when did Youtube get the sponsor feature?
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Jan 26, 2018 20:57
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Libluini posted:Yeah, but there are also weirdos like me, who look at two different super-graphic shots and with every passing tech generation, it gets harder for us to see a difference. "Good graphics" is mostly psychological. In truth, it already entered the stadium of diminishing returns and everything above that is the mental equivalent of a economical bubble, if that makes sense. Sooner or later enough people will have wised up to make the entire thing come crashing down. Oh yeah, absolutely. The entire issue is treating games as a product to be sold in the same way as something you'd buy at the grocery store. I think AAA game publishing is hitting the "plunder and escape" mode now, where the focus is on milking as much from the product as possible before the bottom drops out. I still think that graphics are always going to be a fairly heavy weight as far as marketing is concerned, though; even in the indie sphere, you're going to get so much more attention with "good graphics" than anything else unless you're pretty lucky. It's just the nature of the beast; we're all very distracted by shiny things. ETA: MiddleOne posted:Uh when did Youtube get the sponsor feature? Last September, according to a quick googlin'.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:01
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Sarcopenia posted:How do you even make Charmerd withouth the blatant chauvinism and 90/00 outfits. That's like 89% of the original show. Maybe they'll compensate by making the elders even bigger dicks? I mean, the show was produced by the main stars, and apparently a lot of the weird revealing outfits really belonged to them.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:03
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Eff this Xena and Buffy talk, where is my Hercules reboot starring Kevin Sorbo?
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Jan 26, 2018 21:06
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Leal posted:Eff this Xena and Buffy talk, where is my Hercules reboot starring Kevin Sorbo? We regret to inform you that Kevin Sorbo is now a toxic crazy person.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:23
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minecraft has sold over one hundred million copies. i don't think graphics matter even remotely as much as they once did.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:28
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financially racist posted:minecraft has sold over one hundred million copies. i don't think graphics matter even remotely as much as they once did. The minecraft and AAA game audiences are totally different though
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Jan 26, 2018 21:31
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i highly doubt that is the case. in fact i bet the venn diagram of people who buy aaa games and people who buy minecraft is a near complete circle. like, kinda everyone in the gaming world aside from elitist assholes has played minecraft at this point. furthermore i'd also argue that a lot of aaa game success has to do with how entrenched that poo poo is in the industry and the absolutely loving gigantic marketing budgets (which often dwarf development costs) far more than the graphics in the games themselves. DEEP STATE PLOT fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 21:39
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FoldableHuman posted:Okay, so you didn't actually process the point at all and just sort of short-circuited when the word "nice" showed up, got it. Because, no, the first is not an expansion of the second. They're entirely separate arguments, devoid of similarity beyond the fact that they share some words. It's literally an expansion, that's literally what it is. What any of this has to do with my original post I have no idea. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 21:43
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The thing isn't that you can't sell a game with poor graphics, it's that it's much easier to sell a game on good graphics than on anything else. Minecraft is popular because its gameplay is good enough that it got lucky and received word of mouth marketing. There are probably hundreds of games just as fun that will never achieve its popularity, just because they aren't lucky. If you have the graphics, that's something that can attract people's attention long enough to find out the rest. Without graphics, you're facing an uphill battle to get attention.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:46
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Puppy Time posted:The thing isn't that you can't sell a game with poor graphics, it's that it's much easier to sell a game on good graphics than on anything else. i think graphics do still matter but art style and novel gameplay are both catching up rapidly. it's not like minecraft is the only ridiculously successful game with unimpressive graphical capabilities; terraria for example has itself sold 20 million copies, you've got games like bastion and braid selling at or near aaa levels. and nintendo are of course known for not really pursuing graphical showcases since the wii and yet they still sell gangbusters with games that are eye-catching instead of hyper-realistically-rendered recreations of our world. i mean poo poo the switch alone is kinda evidence that graphics are mattering less and less and less compared with just having a game that is nice to look at. you don't need graphics when you have talented artists instead.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:53
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So basically the marketing departments are pushing for higher graphics because they can convey that aspect of the game in 15 second commercials far more practically than they can convey qualities like story or gameplay.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:56
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Puppy Time posted:The thing isn't that you can't sell a game with poor graphics, it's that it's much easier to sell a game on good graphics than on anything else. Yeah, if graphics wasn't the issue, then games with retro-styled graphics like Devil Daggers, Strafe, Paranautical Activity and High Hell would be much more popular than they are.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:58
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financially racist posted:i think graphics do still matter but art style and novel gameplay are both catching up rapidly. it's not like minecraft is the only ridiculously successful game with unimpressive graphical capabilities; terraria for example has itself sold 20 million copies, you've got games like bastion and braid selling at or near aaa levels. and nintendo are of course known for not really pursuing graphical showcases since the wii and yet they still sell gangbusters with games that are eye-catching instead of hyper-realistically-rendered recreations of our world. I'd like to point out that when most game critics talk about the Wii nowadays, it's mostly in the context of the massive amount of shovelware that was released for it. That console sold a lot, but the only games people talk about are all iterations on Nintendo's big franchises, and updated ports of older games.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:01
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i am tim! posted:So basically the marketing departments are pushing for higher graphics because they can convey that aspect of the game in 15 second commercials far more practically than they can convey qualities like story or gameplay. if this were the case then why do all aaa games end up copying the gameplay loops of one another so frequently? so far as i can tell, the aaa space consists only of three types of games: games that want to be call of duty, games that want to be uncharted, and games that want to be grand theft auto (and last console generation, a fourth type of game that wanted to be gears of war...thank fuckin christ that's over at least). if graphics were the thing that sold games, you'd think they'd actually diversify in their gameplay more than they have.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:04
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Spark That Bled posted:I'd like to point out that when most game critics talk about the Wii nowadays, it's mostly in the context of the massive amount of shovelware that was released for it. That console sold a lot, but the only games people talk about are all iterations on Nintendo's big franchises, and updated ports of older games. And Xenoblade.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:05
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financially racist posted:if this were the case then why do all aaa games end up copying the gameplay loops of one another so frequently? Why are almost all PC indie games variants on 2D platformers, visual novels and first person shooters?
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Jan 26, 2018 22:09
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Spark That Bled posted:Why are almost all PC indie games variants on 2D platformers, visual novels and first person shooters? because most pc indie devs are in fact lazy assholes who can't code for poo poo, and most of the games that meet your criteria sell like poo poo unless they are done spectacularly well or in a particularly novel way. furthermore the most successful indie games are generally not fps games or visual novels, and have a low representation of 2d platforming.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:14
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financially racist posted:because most pc indie devs are in fact lazy assholes who can't code for poo poo, and most of the games that meet your criteria sell like poo poo unless they are done spectacularly well or in a particularly novel way. furthermore the most successful indie games are generally not fps games or visual novels, and have a low representation of 2d platforming. Three of the four of the big indie success stories you mentioned earlier are variations on two of those things. I suppose I should add "twin stick shooter" and "Action RPG" in order to round out the go-to genres, so Bastion can be included.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:24
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Spark That Bled posted:Three of the four of the big indie success stories you mentioned earlier are variations on two of those things. I suppose I should add "twin stick shooter" and "Action RPG" in order to round out the go-to genres, so Bastion can be included. if you are going to tell me that minecraft is an fps game or that terraria is a platformer i am just going to say that you are either not arguing in good faith at all or you are a complete moron
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Jan 26, 2018 22:32
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financially racist posted:if you are going to tell me that minecraft is an fps game or that terraria is a platformer i am just going to say that you are either not arguing in good faith at all or you are a complete moron Well, what are they, then? Sports games?
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Jan 26, 2018 22:34
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they are both crafting survival games i mean gently caress if you wanted to have an example of overdone indie genres you could have just said 'crafting survival games', that's more accurate and has had more success and more cynical copycats than prolly any other genre in indie games you suck at this dude
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Jan 26, 2018 22:38
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financially racist posted:they are both crafting survival games So basically, you just proved my point that indie games don't diversify their gameplay more than AAA games do?
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Jan 26, 2018 22:43
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Spark That Bled posted:So basically, you just proved my point that indie games don't diversify their gameplay more than AAA games do? as a whole? no. the successful ones? yes, even if they are within an otherwise common genre. there are not any other 2d platformers that play like braid. there are not any other fps games that play like superhot.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:57
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THIS ARGUMENT IS EVEN loving DUMBER AND MORE WORTHLESS THAN THE ONES THAT NORMALLY HAPPEN IN THIS THREAD JESUS CHRIST
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Jan 26, 2018 22:58
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i can't say i disagree let's talk about this fantastic game jim sterling recently played instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkIUslpV8ho 
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Jan 26, 2018 23:04
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Leal posted:Eff this Xena and Buffy talk, where is my Hercules reboot starring Kevin Sorbo? No joke he had a heart attack and his brain went without oxygen for six minutes or something and when he woke up he was a reactionary libertarian. Just like Tila Tequila.
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Jan 26, 2018 23:05
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financially racist posted:i can't say i disagree At least it's not going to last much longer on Steam by now. If it hasn't already been pulled as I'm posting this right now.
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Jan 26, 2018 23:14
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nine-gear crow posted:We regret to inform you that Kevin Sorbo is now a toxic crazy person. Oh c'mon, his role in God's Not Dead wasn't that bad. business hammocks posted:No joke he had a heart attack and his brain went without oxygen for six minutes or something and when he woke up he was a reactionary libertarian. Just like Tila Tequila. This is actually really disheartening 
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Jan 26, 2018 23:18
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The dev (or just a troll claiming to be the dev) has already sent Jim an e-mail threatening to have the vid taken down. No surprise, he called Jim a "fag".
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Jan 26, 2018 23:19
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nine-gear crow posted:We regret to inform you that Kevin Sorbo is now a toxic crazy person. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l87Ddn-_CQI
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Jan 26, 2018 23:31
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Leal posted:Oh c'mon, his role in God's Not Dead wasn't that bad. If you want the real good poo poo, check him out in Alongside Night also “starring” the vulcan from Star Trek Voyager and Jake Busey.
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Jan 26, 2018 23:35
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Puppy Time posted:"Good graphics" is extremely easy to demonstrate and to advertise, especially high definition realism. You show the audience an image, done. It helps that nice pictures really easily impress most people, which is enough to gain a fair amount of sales. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_o6DxhslAI Alaois posted:THIS ARGUMENT IS EVEN loving DUMBER AND MORE WORTHLESS THAN THE ONES THAT NORMALLY HAPPEN IN THIS THREAD JESUS CHRIST
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Jan 26, 2018 23:45
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Kay Kessler posted:The dev (or just a troll claiming to be the dev) has already sent Jim an e-mail threatening to have the vid taken down. No surprise, he called Jim a "fag".
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Jan 26, 2018 23:58
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