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Foolster41 posted:My mermaid story has a girl waking up, though it's more she's gaining consciousness after a shipwreck. I'm not sure how to not start with waking up and have it in media res. start the scene five minutes later: oh theres a bunch of fresh ship debris, the POV character is possibly underwater and conscious and dealing with a headache. if you thrust your reader into that situation it's a mystery to them.why did the ship get wrecked? why is this character able to breathe underwater? the POV character might be looking for something valuable lost in the shipwreck or trying to solve the wreck along with the reader, there's instant momentum in your story.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:05
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anime was right posted:start the scene five minutes later: oh theres a bunch of fresh ship debris, the POV character is possibly underwater and conscious and dealing with a headache. if you thrust your reader into that situation it's a mystery to them.why did the ship get wrecked? why is this character able to breathe underwater? the POV character might be looking for something valuable lost in the shipwreck or trying to solve the wreck along with the reader, there's instant momentum in your story. Hmm. Maybe. I'll have to ask my RL writer's group orginizor who promised to read my story (I was at the group and said my story's on her list, though she's reading the finished novel of someone in our group who's quirring to be published) once she reads it. Maybe I should  it.Shipwrecked is the wrong word, she's swept off the ship by a big wave. I had it so at first she thinks she's just in her bathtub, and then realizes "oh crap, this is the ocean, and I'm not wearing clothes!" and she's already propped up on a rock. I feel like either way there's the mystery that's discovered along with the MC of why she's there (and why she has those welts on her back, which is explained in the story). The thing is, I didn't want her to immediately be aware of the circumstances of her falling off the ship, because a mermaid rescues her (who she at first thinks is just a naked swimming lady). The being able to mysteriously breathing under water thing is interesting, because it turns out she find she's been turned into a mermaid herself. IDK, it doesn't seem all that big a difference between "she opened her eyes, and looked around" and "she still wasn't sure where she was," starting later to me. The idea of her waking up underwater, and yet didn't feel like she was drowning would be an interesting twist on the starting waking cliche up though. Foolster41 fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jan 21, 2018 |
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Jan 21, 2018 00:30
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Naerasa posted:I had my fourth manuscript picked up by a small press and I'm currently shopping my fifth around to agents, though it's become clear to me that I've got to strip out one POV and replace it with a different one. Not sure which of those I talked to you about, though I know I haven't mentioned much of what I've been working on since I posted about my third manuscript and got laughed out of the drat thread (deservedly). I'm PRETTY sure it was you that mentioned a vague set up similar to what you just alluded to now, but gently caress it's been months I could be completely wrong. Still it's really fantastic that you're getting picked up by anyone! I hope it goes well
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Jan 21, 2018 00:45
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Foolster41 posted:IDK, it doesn't seem all that big a difference between "she opened her eyes, and looked around" and "she still wasn't sure where she was," starting later to me. The idea of her waking up underwater, and yet didn't feel like she was drowning would be an interesting twist on the starting waking cliche up though. You might be able to pull it off if you focus less on her confusion and more on her sensations. The problem with the waking up/amnesia set-up is that it's slow because it relies on the POV character puzzling together what inevitably turns out to be extremely basic poo poo. What could be interesting is not talking about her waking as much as going deep into her immediate circumstances, like: "There's water all around me. A trail of bubbles escapes my lips. They float upwards, racing towards the circle of light over my head. It's the only proof I have that the surface still exists, but it's enough to convince me I'm still alive." That's just demo prose, so it's not perfect by any means, but it both a) shows the reader that your protagonist is underwater, and b) is focused entirely on her current situation. She doesn't need to be waking up to be totally immersed in the present, since she's in a shocking situation that requires absolute concentration to survive. No one's going to be wondering why you're not explaining what happened if you do it right, since the conflict of 'not drowning' will be enough to keep the reader turning the page.
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Jan 21, 2018 01:20
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Naerasa posted:You might be able to pull it off if you focus less on her confusion and more on her sensations. The problem with the waking up/amnesia set-up is that it's slow because it relies on the POV character puzzling together what inevitably turns out to be extremely basic poo poo. What could be interesting is not talking about her waking as much as going deep into her immediate circumstances, like: "There's water all around me. A trail of bubbles escapes my lips. They float upwards, racing towards the circle of light over my head. It's the only proof I have that the surface still exists, but it's enough to convince me I'm still alive." I tried to focuses on senses (light and heat of sun, pain on her back, especially as the salt water splashes her). The opening takes about 400 words out of the 1900 word story, so maybe that's a tad long, since that's a quarter of the story. Anyway, I posted what I have right now here if you want to give feedback.
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Jan 21, 2018 01:36
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Every 'rule' is really just a flag to look at what you've done that breaks the rule and think if it's worth it.
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Jan 21, 2018 01:36
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Just randomly saw the Apple App Store has a handful of apps for writers posted today if anyone is interested. Nothing too crazy, but maybe useful?
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Jan 21, 2018 17:55
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I spoke with an agent today about my most recent manuscript and asked if it was worth it to put in revisions when I'd gotten 3 requests (that turned into rejections) out of 20 submissions, and her reply was that adult fantasy is tough to break into right now and I'd do better if I made my protagonist a woman. This isn't the first time I've gotten this advice from agents, but it's happened enough times that I'm really starting to get annoyed by it. I've already decided I'm doing female protagonists from here on out, but now I've got to mull over whether it's worth it for me to fix this book if I'm not willing to make the protagonist a woman. I'll figure something out, but sometimes this poo poo is really frustrating.
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Jan 23, 2018 02:10
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I dislike that kind of thing entirely because it reduces the whole thing to just chasing trends. Ideally you have a woman as the protagonist because they work best that way, the story works best with them in that role. Not because that's just what people want But I guess you go after what sells first and foremost and try to make it a good story around that. What are some good agencies for scifi-fantasy authors, by the by? I've looked around some but it's always some massive group that doesn't seem likely for a first time writer to get picked up by
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Jan 23, 2018 02:27
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just lol if your fantasy doesn't have 100 main characters at the start. and 2 at the end.
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Jan 23, 2018 02:37
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Burkion posted:I dislike that kind of thing entirely because it reduces the whole thing to just chasing trends. Use QueryTracker and search by sci-fi or fantasy. Your book kind of straddles between the two, but I'd probably call it sci-fi because of the presence of aliens.
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Jan 23, 2018 02:59
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crabrock posted:just lol if your fantasy doesn't have 100 main characters at the start. The Malazan Book of the Fallen did it, why can’t I? Also  that adult fantasy is a bad genre to try for now, my previous idea of historical fiction can’t be any better though 
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Jan 23, 2018 03:42
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sebmojo posted:Every 'rule' is really just a flag to look at what you've done that breaks the rule and think if it's worth it. This is the one truth to rule them all.
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Jan 23, 2018 15:07
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magnificent7 posted:Why is this not quoted and bolded in every reply. It's not quoted and bolded because 99% of the time, when you think the way you're breaking the rules is clever and inspired, it's actually not. Writers as a whole are really good about seeing weak spots in other people's work and really bad at seeing it on their own. You get better as you go on, sure, but most people need the rules early on to help guide them from making easy mistakes they otherwise would. Not excluding myself from this, by the way. I can't tell you how many rules I've broken and thought 'what I am doing is extremely sick and cool and clearly justifies breaking the rules', only to put it in front of a group and hear 'please don't do this' as a response.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:17
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No, the one truth is read more / write more.
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Jan 23, 2018 20:03
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Ursula K Leguin's book on writing is on the Kindle daily deal today if anyone's interested.
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Jan 27, 2018 02:12
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Stuporstar posted:Ursula K Leguin's book on writing is on the Kindle daily deal today if anyone's interested. Snagged it. Thanks for the heads up
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Jan 27, 2018 17:52
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I am not doing this, but as a lovely theoretical example... Let's say I want to write a short story about traveling across the universe in cryogenic sleep, but since it's an experimental technology, it turns out that while your body is in stasis, your mind is still consciously active during the 1,000 year journey. What can I do and/or where can I go to check to make sure an idea I want to write about is unique and hasn't been done by someone else already?
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Jan 28, 2018 18:46
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You can't. As far as I know there isn't a depository of ideas somewhere on the internet. Everything's been done already, anyway. Ultimately, it's not about the idea, but the execution. You and I can take the same ideas and (hopefully) come up with different stories. Other than that, the only way to know is to read, read, read. Know the cliches and plots and tropes of the genre you want to write in so that if you happen to fall into one you'll be aware of it instead of thinking that no one has ever done this particular subversion before.
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Jan 28, 2018 18:58
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Thanks. I think sci-fi is most susceptible to this (stories based on a "gimmick"), but it can happen in any genre, I suppose. I have a (what I think is) a unique setting within which I'd like to tell a story and I'd really like to make sure no one's done it before.
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Jan 28, 2018 19:03
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Honestly, you just gotta let that go. If it’s written well and the story draws people in, no one’s going to say, “oh but this world is pretty similar to this other world I read in this other story, therefore gently caress this hack writer.”
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Jan 28, 2018 19:39
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Exactly. I'm not going to drop the five novels I've been working on for almost a decade just because Star Trek introduced the idea of a dude who can teleport AND see through time because he's symbiotically connected to an organic network that weaves through spacetime. Because who loving cares. My stories aren't a bit like Star Trek (and they're not even using the idea to its full potential), so I can carry on with the same idea happily knowing my story is uniquely mine no matter what resemblances there might be. Why? Because this one idea doesn't completely define my main character--there's so much more going on with him. I wouldn't have been able to plot six books around him otherwise. So what if your idea might be "done before." No one cares about your Idea. The golden age of science fiction, where you could hack out some one-dimensional trash propped up by a single original idea--those days are loving over. Now you have to bring more to the table than your precious Idea. If you can't get over that, you've doomed yourself before you've even started. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 20:30
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People still gobble up medieval European fantasy worlds like fuckin candy.
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Jan 28, 2018 21:16
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Dadbod Apocalypse posted:I am not doing this, but as a lovely theoretical example... This actually comes up in the scifi podcast Sayer.
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Jan 28, 2018 21:19
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Stuporstar posted:Exactly. I'm not going to drop the five novels I've been working on for almost a decade just because Star Trek introduced the idea of a dude who can teleport AND see through time because he's symbiotically connected to an organic network that weaves through spacetime. Because who loving cares. My stories aren't a bit like Star Trek (and they're not even using the idea to its full potential), so I can carry on with the same idea happily knowing my story is uniquely mine no matter what resemblances there might be. Why? Because this one idea doesn't completely define my main character--there's so much more going on with him. I wouldn't have been able to plot six books around him otherwise. Are you having a meltdown because I stole your cryogenic sleep idea?
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Jan 28, 2018 21:42
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Dadbod Apocalypse posted:Are you having a meltdown because I stole your cryogenic sleep idea? lol you're not-all-that-original idea is safe to work on, dude What I'm sick of is seeing Idea Guys pop up in this thread again and again thinking their ideas are so special they start whining when told their ideas don't count for poo poo
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Jan 28, 2018 21:58
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I don’t really know what you’re getting all angry about. I never said that I had a great idea; I just want to know if there’s a way to check if something has been done before because I’d prefer this to be a unique premise. Chill out.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:03
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Dadbod Apocalypse posted:I don’t really know what you’re getting all angry about. I never said that I had a great idea; I just want to know if there’s a way to check if something has been done before because I’d prefer this to be a unique premise. Chill out. And we keep telling you that doesn't matter but the advice (to let it go) from everyone who's responded to you refuses to sink in
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Jan 28, 2018 22:19
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Dadbod Apocalypse posted:I’d prefer this to be a unique premise that's what she's saying. there AREN'T any unique premises. billions of people have had access to typewriters and computers for hundreds of years now, it's all been done. The only thing you can do is put new spin on things with new characters and different combinations of things. so don't worry so much about "is this idea fresh" so much as "am i doing this idea justice by writing it well."
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Jan 28, 2018 22:21
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But I took everyone’s advice and appreciate it? Holy cow, go rage out at someone else.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:27
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Dadbod Apocalypse posted:But I took everyone’s advice and appreciate it? Holy cow, go rage out at someone else. just do your best, that's all you can do. Ponder these 22 rules of storytelling: https://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/pixars-22-rules-of-stor.html particularly this one: quote:Discount the 1st thing that comes to mind. And the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th – get the obvious out of the way. Surprise yourself. Its fine to have a premise that appeals to you even when its been done before. Just work on getting rid of the obvious possibilities to make it yours, you feel me?
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Jan 28, 2018 22:43
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Dadbod Apocalypse posted:I just want to know if there’s a way to check if something has been done before Read every story/novel ever written
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Jan 28, 2018 23:02
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Google "books about oracle prostitutes in the temple of Osiris" (that is your idea, right??) Alternately, post in the identify that book thread with your idea and see what people guess. Even easier is to just assume it has, though vOv. Edit: Stuporstar is right about new ideas not really mattering, and the reason people are saying that instead of just answering your explicit question is because if people focus on the perceived originality of their ideas, they are unlikely to adequately focus on the quality of their story, which is (unsurprisingly) what actually makes books worth reading. Fiction Advice posters are always going to give the advice they think you need, not just the advice you explicitly ask for. Especially since someone else might come along later with a similar question. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 23:24
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Dadbod Apocalypse posted:Are you having a meltdown because I stole your cryogenic sleep idea? Pretty sure Philip K. Dick beat both of you to the punch on that one.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:42
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Guiness13 posted:Pretty sure Philip K. Dick beat both of you to the punch on that one. lol don't validate this dude's wild defensive flailing by saying "both" I'm pretty sure no one's gonna write another Ubik, even if they tried, and that's the point.
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Jan 29, 2018 00:06
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Chill out, fellows, we are all good word friends here.
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Jan 29, 2018 00:10
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I thought he was talking about King's short story. Just goes to show how ideas aren't special.
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Jan 29, 2018 00:14
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sebmojo posted:Chill out, fellows, we are all good word friends here. gently caress, who called the fuzz?
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Jan 29, 2018 00:15
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CantDecideOnAName posted:I thought he was talking about King's short story. Or watching the world pass by in The Time Machine Or the sensory deprivation chamber in Stanislaw Lem's Tales of Pirx the Pilot Or the cryogentic chamber in Cixin Lui's Three Body trilogy And he could read all those and go, "Nope, nope, not what I was thinking..." and if he were smart would come to realize his story is never going to be so like something already written that he needs to stress about it.
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Jan 29, 2018 00:32
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crabrock posted:gently caress, who called the fuzz? I know/see all, from within my Omniscitron.
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Jan 29, 2018 00:41
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