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C-Euro posted:Just got the level 4 nail and how the hell do you forge a drill-shaped sword Yes, but it’s pretty tricky to get (gotta beat the second trial in the Colosseum in addition to tracking down all the other pale ore). skasion fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 15:39
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skasion posted:Yes, but it’s pretty tricky to get (gotta beat the second trial in the Colosseum in addition to tracking down all the other pale ore). I haven't even gotten to the Colosseum yet so yeah I'm fine with it being a long ways off. I did get the last bit of Pale Ore for this upgrade from the area at the top of Crystal Peak though and it was v pretty. There's like four or five different places that I'm aware of where I could explore next and I'm gripped by indecision lol. This game rules.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:17
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There's one particular recommendation I'd make to avoid excessive backtracking later. I'll use initials of areas to avoid spoilers. Toward the very south east of QG there's a key that lets you in to a place center-west of KE. There's a particular fight there that you want to win and get the reward for
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Jan 28, 2018 17:53
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I think I know what those areas are but I haven't been to either yet. I'm not even quite sure how to get to QE but I think I at least know what side of the map it's on (Left)
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Jan 28, 2018 19:11
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Two tips for the flower quest: 1) From someone earlier in this thread: save it until you are close to the end of the game (i.e. post White Palace) and use the Kingsoul to just nuke everything in your way at range. Sure, this requires you to wait until the Forgotten Crossroads gets infected, but I think that's so much better than trying to get through the last room in the Queen's Gardens without double-jumping (I'm pretty sure it's beating the Broken Vessel that triggers the infection). 2) From Highwang's LP: the big jellyfish don't do their crazy kamikaze thing if you hit them with Sharp Shadow.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:27
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A page ago people were talking about the style of the game and how it colored their initial impressions of it. I obviously love the style a ton, its why I keep drawing fanart of it, but I actually was put off by it at first. I don't even really know why. Something about the story of the simplistic style of the bugs mixed with the more detailed backgrounds and very serious music...well it came off as pretentious? I don't really think that's the right word, I have trouble articulating what it is I disliked about this art at first. I guess it gave me an impression the game was going to be one of those indie titles that goes for style over substance. I'm normally not that judgmental about alternative art styles but for some reason I'm really skeptical of indie games nowadays. Especially when I hear people try to label it as a "Souls like" which is a tired meme at this point. VVV That event is triggered by breaking one of the seals or defeating the Broken Vessel Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 02:36
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OzFactor posted:1) From someone earlier in this thread: save it until you are close to the end of the game (i.e. post White Palace) and use the Kingsoul to just nuke everything in your way at range. Sure, this requires you to wait until the Forgotten Crossroads gets infected, but I think that's so much better than trying to get through the last room in the Queen's Gardens without double-jumping (I'm pretty sure it's beating the Broken Vessel that triggers the infection). isn't it because you kill something - any of them - that's holding it back, rather than killing an only moderately related boss?
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Jan 29, 2018 02:39
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It’s not Broken Vessel specifically, it’s picking up Monarch Wings. Killing a dreamer does it as well.
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Jan 29, 2018 02:54
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Internet Kraken posted:A page ago people were talking about the style of the game and how it colored their initial impressions of it. I obviously love the style a ton, its why I keep drawing fanart of it, but I actually was put off by it at first. I don't even really know why. Something about the story of the simplistic style of the bugs mixed with the more detailed backgrounds and very serious music...well it came off as pretentious? I don't really think that's the right word, I have trouble articulating what it is I disliked about this art at first. I guess it gave me an impression the game was going to be one of those indie titles that goes for style over substance. I'm normally not that judgmental about alternative art styles but for some reason I'm really skeptical of indie games nowadays. Especially when I hear people try to label it as a "Souls like" which is a tired meme at this point. That's exactly what I meant when I said I thought the game was "artsy-fartsy"  Also gotta agree with the Souls-like thing, it added another layer of  since literally every game at that time was being called souls-like. I wonder if the people/reviewers who called it that even played the game because there's literally nothing souls-like about the game. It's a straight metroidvania from start to finish (and a heckin' good one too).Speaking of art and Souls-like, I did bounce badly off of Salt and Sanctuary which was another game I didn't like the art and souls-like hype of. Everyone wanted me to play it and I did and I just... couldn't get over how it looked and how hyped up it was. Kinda lumped Hollow Knight in with that game because of all the (stupid) comparisons and boy was I wrong to do that.
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Jan 29, 2018 03:07
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Nightmare King is an absolute whore of a boss, where the text that introduces him should be replaced by "gently caress YOU". He really shouldn't be doing double damage. At least Orphan of Kos gave me a few breathers. With all the other bosses I came up with a strategy, but I guess this is a fight where I truly have to git gud. Sweet loving Jesus. School Nickname fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 03:16
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Apparently there's something...special in the Very Blue area in the bottom of the map. Something large and alive in the background that wasn't noticed until very recently.
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Jan 29, 2018 03:24
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I'd argue that that it is extremely similar to Souls in terms of story (though much less bleak) but when people say something is a "Souls-like" they are always talking about gameplay. Hollow Knight's gameplay similarities are really light so I feel calling it "2D Dark Souls" or whatever gives people the wrong impression.
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Jan 29, 2018 03:26
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School Nickname posted:Nightmare King is an absolute whore of a boss, where the text that introduces him should be replaced by "gently caress YOU". He really shouldn't be doing double damage. At least Orphan of Kos gave me a few breathers. With all the other bosses I came up with a strategy, but I guess this is a fight where I truly have to git gud. 
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Jan 29, 2018 03:32
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I think "Souls-like" fits Hollow Knight more than most games that get slapped with that label. The indirect way of presenting the story and the setting, the emphasis on boss fights and exploration, the death system. Its not as Souls-y as Salt and Sanctuary but its not a completely unfair way of describing the game. Certainly better than calling Crash Bandicoot Souls-like.
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Jan 29, 2018 03:35
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Important NK Tip: You don't need to bring along your little nightmare baby. He isn't need to access the fight and even if you do bring him he does nothing so stuff him under the bench. Actual fight tip: Because he warps away so quickly you usually can't land more than one hit. This means you should really be using charge attacks to deal more damage. 1stGear posted:I think "Souls-like" fits Hollow Knight more than most games that get slapped with that label. The indirect way of presenting the story and the setting, the emphasis on boss fights and exploration, the death system. Its not as Souls-y as Salt and Sanctuary but its not a completely unfair way of describing the game. There's obviously some direct inspiration but I don't think the gameplay similarities are similar enough to warrant mentioning. It ultimately ends up playing way, way differently and if someone was to go into it with the Dark Souls mindset they could be disappointed. As an example, the death system in Hollow Knight was obviously inspired by Dark Souls but its affect on gameplay is far less significant. In Dark Souls you always want more Souls and its extremely easy to die twice and lose your bloodstain, so it places a lot more pressure on your. Geo by comparison becomes irrelevant pretty quickly, can be acquired in vast amounts through indirect methods, and if you are in danger of losing a large sum you can always just exit the game safely and circumvent the entire mechanic. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 03:43
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Yesterday I finished off that flower quest after choking on the very last jump no less than twice and no more than four times. One of the other times I did it without a cleared pathway and just carefully inched my way to the last few screens before falling onto a flying enemy. Overall tThat took a lot of careful play (read: many, many failed attempts) in a game where I enjoy throwing myself at enemies and healing off the damage. Severe clash of ethos. Thanks for the tips. With the semi-specific yet still vague power of the wiki I found the rest of the mask shards, grubs, pale ore, and charms.  Still can't do the 3rd colosseum fight however. Glancing at a Youtube vid, I think I'm 3/4s through it before I fatigue out and my thumbs stop cooperating. I may just be too old for this poo poo. There's a few trinkets left, but mostly I have yet figure out where the true final bits are. Clearly I haven't run everywhere, but I'm really low on ideas of where the maternity ward is.
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Jan 29, 2018 03:48
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School Nickname posted:Nightmare King is an absolute whore of a boss, where the text that introduces him should be replaced by "gently caress YOU". He really shouldn't be doing double damage. At least Orphan of Kos gave me a few breathers. With all the other bosses I came up with a strategy, but I guess this is a fight where I truly have to git gud. NKG is straight up the best boss fight in the game and I wish he left behind a lantern or something that you could dreamnail to refight him.
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Jan 29, 2018 04:02
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Internet Kraken posted:As an example, the death system in Hollow Knight was obviously inspired by Dark Souls but its affect on gameplay is far less significant. In Dark Souls you always want more Souls and its extremely easy to die twice and lose your bloodstain, so it places a lot more pressure on your. Geo by comparison becomes irrelevant pretty quickly, can be acquired in vast amounts through indirect methods, and if you are in danger of losing a large sum you can always just exit the game safely and circumvent the entire mechanic. Honestly the death system feels kinda tacked on as a "hey, Dark Souls!" thing and I think the game would be better without it. Unlike in the Souls games where you always want more souls since it's both currency and experience points, in Hollow Knight it stops being relevant before you even reach the second half of the game. As a result, the death system punishes you heavily early game and is completely inconsequential later in the game which feels pretty backwards. It could be more interesting if they actually put in more stuff to spend your geo on mid-to-late game but even then it's still lacking that core property (character progression) that makes the soul system so good.
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Jan 29, 2018 04:14
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Discendo Vox posted:Apparently there's something...special in the Very Blue area in the bottom of the map. Something large and alive in the background that wasn't noticed until very recently. that's incredibly vague
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Jan 29, 2018 04:20
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Johnny Joestar posted:that's incredibly vague I assume they mean the lifeblood door located in the middle of the Abyss climb. I have no idea what the thing in the background they are talking about is though. You get locked out of that area after going inside too so you can't go back in to check.
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Jan 29, 2018 04:26
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It's not that newly discovered but there's a creature faintly visible in the background of the room where you pick up the Lifeblood Core.
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Jan 29, 2018 04:33
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I found Nightmare King pretty easy once you learn his attacks. I legit don’t mean that in a bragging sort of way, just that he telegraphs his moves a bunch, and there isn’t much variance, so he felt a little more static than even like a Mega Man boss or something. As long as you do the same thing each time, you can Always Dodge. What he DID do was make me want a hollow knight fighting game, because his dive kick and uppercut look really cool
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Jan 29, 2018 04:38
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SirSamVimes posted:It's not that newly discovered but there's a creature faintly visible in the background of the room where you pick up the Lifeblood Core. oh, neat
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Jan 29, 2018 04:48
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Well that was a long-rear end session. Decided to poke my head into Kingdom's Edge, then wound up fighting Hornet again and then crawling inside of a dead wurm. Got the King's Mark and thought "hey maybe this goes to that door in the Ancient Basin" and oh God there's a giant spooky pit underneath this place and oh God I sucked up this evil-looking liquid and now I can dash through these black barriers in Fog Canyon so why don't I just do all of the Canyon and Queen's Garden now. Oh hey it's my buddy Cloth and now she's helping me fight this evil mantis and oh no RIP Cloth. Also thanks for giving me half of a charm giant light lady. I'm 15 hours in now and it feels like the only things I have to do now is take on the Dreamers (especially the one in Deepnest, which I've barely explored), but this game keeps surprising me so who the gently caress knows what will happen. It's rad. Also do you get any sort of benefit from using the Dream Nail on NPC spirits? I really don't want to have to exorcise my #1 homie Cloth 
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Jan 29, 2018 05:47
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Just the one point of essence.
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Jan 29, 2018 05:53
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Your Computer posted:That's exactly what I meant when I said I thought the game was "artsy-fartsy" This is a funny way to think about it. I might argue that Dark Souls is a metroidvania! And I would not be the first person to do so! If the thing that makes a metroidvania is the model of upgrade>progression>upgrade>progression (and the possibility of subversion of that model through sequence breaking), then sure, Dark Souls is one of those. That said, minute-to-minute gameplay-wise, HK and DS are not super similar outside of dying-and-recovery, but in terms of story and gameplay integration, they're extremely similar. I know "Souls-like" gets thrown around like candy, so a lot of people use it when they mean "hard game with weird story" instead of "game which is exactly as hard as you want it to be because if something's too hard just go the other direction for a while and also the story works exactly the same way as the difficulty, it's there if you want it and not if you don't." C-Euro posted:Well that was a long-rear end session. Decided to poke my head into Kingdom's Edge, then wound up fighting Hornet again and then crawling inside of a dead wurm. Got the King's Mark and thought "hey maybe this goes to that door in the Ancient Basin" and oh God there's a giant spooky pit underneath this place and oh God I sucked up this evil-looking liquid and now I can dash through these black barriers in Fog Canyon so why don't I just do all of the Canyon and Queen's Garden now. Oh hey it's my buddy Cloth and now she's helping me fight this evil mantis and oh no RIP Cloth. Also thanks for giving me half of a charm giant light lady. I'm 15 hours in now and it feels like the only things I have to do now is take on the Dreamers (especially the one in Deepnest, which I've barely explored), but this game keeps surprising me so who the gently caress knows what will happen. It's rad. I think the Abyss was my favorite part of the game. People talk about Deepnest being scary, and it is, but man... it's just so quiet down there. Dream Nail on NPCs: No real benefit aside from the very minor essence points except FREEING THEM FROM PURGATORY IN THE DREAM THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING NO YOU SHUT UP
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Jan 29, 2018 05:53
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Are there any more doors that interact with the King's Mark than the one I mentioned previously? I could have sworn that I've seen more than one door that looks like that but I'm trying to remember where.
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Jan 29, 2018 06:05
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If people actually used "Souls-like" to describe games with a focus on exploration, difficult combat, and other mechanics you associate with the series then people wouldn't hate it. Instead its basically become a shorthand for "hey this game is hard" which is stupid. Its lost any merit it ever had as a term.C-Euro posted:Are there any more doors that interact with the King's Mark than the one I mentioned previously? I could have sworn that I've seen more than one door that looks like that but I'm trying to remember where. That's the only door that requires it.
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Jan 29, 2018 06:23
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Dark Souls is the Hollow Knight of Bloodborne.
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Jan 29, 2018 07:37
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OzFactor posted:This is a funny way to think about it. I might argue that Dark Souls is a metroidvania! And I would not be the first person to do so! If the thing that makes a metroidvania is the model of upgrade>progression>upgrade>progression (and the possibility of subversion of that model through sequence breaking), then sure, Dark Souls is one of those. That sounds more like you're describing "video games" to me, but I guess we can disagree on this point  To me, other than being a very 2D genre, a metroidvania is all about movement abilities and exploration, to get more movement abilities and explore further, to get more movement- you get the idea. Certainly Dark Souls has exploration, but even its RPG stat system isn't that much of an upgrade and the game focuses more on personal skill growth than (stat) upgrades. Then again, you might argue that the 3D Zelda games share a lot with metroidvanias (with an extra dimension) and Dark Souls is the best Zelda game so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Internet Kraken posted:If people actually used "Souls-like" to describe games with a focus on exploration, difficult combat, and other mechanics you associate with the series then people wouldn't hate it. Instead its basically become a shorthand for "hey this game is hard" which is stupid. Its lost any merit it ever had as a term.
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Jan 29, 2018 07:45
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this is the best SimAnt - a - like.
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Jan 29, 2018 08:37
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Johnny Joestar posted:oh, neat  he just sort of blinks. hollowknight wiki peeps have seen him since at least sept last year, he ain't new. good bugdog though
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Jan 29, 2018 11:23
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Radiance took several failures, then farming out Unbreakable Strength and killing it in two more tries. Without a range extender. What I'm saying is US is absurdly powerful.
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Jan 29, 2018 12:24
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Andrigaar posted:Radiance took several failures, then farming out Unbreakable Strength and killing it in two more tries. Without a range extender. It freaking better be for the price!
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Jan 29, 2018 14:29
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C-Euro posted:Are there any more doors that interact with the King's Mark than the one I mentioned previously? I could have sworn that I've seen more than one door that looks like that but I'm trying to remember where. There are a few NPCs that react to it, but that's all.
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Jan 29, 2018 14:49
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If you give a fragile charm to the Troupe vendor and then banish the Troupe, does that mean you've screwed yourself out of both the charm and the completion-percentage? I'll do a cleanup on achievements after Update 3 but I really hate having to fill out the Hunter's Journal. It's a good thing you don't fight him because then you would have a boss fight that's locked behind hours of grinding.
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Jan 29, 2018 14:59
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Inspector Gesicht posted:If you give a fragile charm to the Troupe vendor and then banish the Troupe, does that mean you've screwed yourself out of both the charm and the completion-percentage? No, any charm currently in Divine's possession is dropped on the ground where the tent was if the troupe is banished. Failing that you could probably rebuy it from Leg Eater anyway.
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Jan 29, 2018 15:50
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Inspector Gesicht posted:If you give a fragile charm to the Troupe vendor and then banish the Troupe, does that mean you've screwed yourself out of both the charm and the completion-percentage? Certain things like getting the entry for the maggots seems so wrong.
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Jan 29, 2018 16:01
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Oh man just forgot my favorite part of last night's play session- going back to the map shop after getting the last map from Cornifer and seeing him snoring in the background 
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Jan 29, 2018 16:21
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Just got gud and beat Nightmare King, then got 106% completion and finally finished the game with two endings! gently caress me the true boss is a bitch. I will admit I cheesed my way out of it with full Jonis and maxed grimmchild.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:21
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