|
Willie Tomg posted:Ability scores aren't really the problem, but their non applicability to things are. A cleric shouldn't be penalized for having more than 8 INT, y'know? Aside from access to multiclassing options, I agree, in the vanilla rules they're nearly a useless appendix. Homebrew like the universal maneuvers can make use of them though. In fact I suspect the homebrew explosion at DM's Guild fits in the WotC business plan as research on ways to develop the D&D system and I'd guess ability scores, hp and AC are integral to D&D in a brand sense. So yeah it's disappointing when they outsource R&D to amateurs, but I do think it's less of an oversight and more their business model. More to the point I'm updating my universal maneuvers and gating many of them to ability scores. I'm coming into a maths / averaging issue on setting those gates appropriately for standard array / point buy PC's on the one hand and stat rollers on the other. Obviously I'm not accounting for outliers like "all 18" cheats. So our table rolls stats in sets of 6 in front of the DM and has to choose one set. They then assign the numbers wherever they want, then add racial modifiers. In our group of 6 PCs the average sum of the roll-sets, pre racial modified, is 78, with the median at 80. (81 high 73 low) The sum of the standard array is 72. I'll presume point buy yields similar. I'm mainly writing the maneuvers with my table in mind as the upper end of the AS band and the standard array as the bottom of the band. So a Tier 1 (Levels 1-4) ability gated at say Dex 16 is only accessible to a standard array character if they have the racial modifier. At our stat rolled table it means 4 of the PCs have access where only 2 would were it a standard array table. At higher levels an Array PC will need ASI's to access certain higher maneuvers though that should make them more unique or specific to that character which makes them rare and cool. So the higher ability scores, unsurprisingly, open up more options in the game - like elf barbarian for example. Standard array / point buy limit potential character builds. I think less choices is less interesting for a player over the lifetime of a campaign so that's why I prefer rolling stats in the way we do. Standard array does make it easier to critically discuss the rules of the game, as well as design homebrew as I'm doing. It'd be interesting to know if anyone's done statistics on players using array / point buy and rolling stats. My table is my only stat rolling sample group atm. Anyway, I guess it's clear ability points do have applicability to me sperging the gently caress out on them at least. Kaysette posted:I love when my light cleric is expected to know about religion but I'm rocking the -1 modifier. Our War cleric had a Wis of 19 and a Cha of 4. He held all of life's answers but was far too insufferable to bear listening to. The character retired to NPC as an adviser to an insane duchess, maybe they'll come back as quest givers later.
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 01:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 07:19 |
|
|
mango sentinel posted:My group doesn't like challenge Realtalk in the most earnest and least dismissive way I can convey via text: they will loving hate ToA. It's literally called Tomb of Annihilation. The threat is an inextricably core part of the module, otherwise you just have travelling through a jungle for three goddamned months doing not much.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
So what I'm getting from thw thread and my own reading is that 5e is a game of create a concwpt around the mechanics rather than create a concept and find mechanics that fit it. As such Elf Wardancer maybe just too difficult to pull off.  bit of a disappointment really.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 01:58
|
|
|
Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Lol @ not liking challenge. I mean like I get not wanting to be a power munchkin just to survive, but it sounds so loving boring to be someone who admits not liking to have to try.  Willie Tomg posted:Realtalk in the most earnest and least dismissive way I can convey via text: they will loving hate ToA. It's literally called Tomb of Annihilation. The threat is an inextricably core part of the module, otherwise you just have travelling through a jungle for three goddamned months doing not much. Thank you, this is helpful. I really want to extricate the Indiana Jones romp from the punishing mechanics, and I'd sooner skip the jungle slog than make it long and uneventful, that said I feel like that puts the onus on me to just turn it into a small world ride through the set pieces rather than letting folks explore. Gridlocked posted:So what I'm getting from thw thread and my own reading is that 5e is a game of create a concwpt around the mechanics rather than create a concept and find mechanics that fit it. What does an Elf Wardancer do that a reskinned swashbuckler can't?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 02:08
|
|
|
clusterfuck posted:More to the point I'm updating my universal maneuvers and gating many of them to ability scores. I'm coming into a maths / averaging issue on setting those gates appropriately for standard array / point buy PC's on the one hand and stat rollers on the other. Obviously I'm not accounting for outliers like "all 18" cheats. You can't really compare those two things. Set the requirements for point buy, rolling for stats will never be balanced with it, because it is inherently random and inevitably ends up with some PCs having higher stats sooner. The only other option is level-gating things. Post level 8, a character should have a 20 in their main stat. Gridlocked posted:So what I'm getting from thw thread and my own reading is that 5e is a game of create a concwpt around the mechanics rather than create a concept and find mechanics that fit it. Play a Kensai monk, you'll be fine. Dex based, doesn't wear armor, can use a longsword 2-handed, and does some sweet tricks with various monk abilities. Monks end up with all save proficiencies eventually, which kind of melds with the whole magic tattoo magic resistance thing. Closest thing to a Wardancer that exists in DnD. If you wanted to use magic, you'd need to do something else though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 02:08
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:As such Elf Wardancer maybe just too difficult to pull off. You could run an Elf Bard - College of Swords maybe. Our party has a half orc barbarian obsessed with dance who has multiclassed to Bard. Yes the Rage / Spellcasting limitation bites but I'm allowing him to spend Inspiration points to overcome it. The Gate posted:You can't really compare those two things. Set the requirements for point buy, rolling for stats will never be balanced with it, because it is inherently random and inevitably ends up with some PCs having higher stats sooner. The only other option is level-gating things. Post level 8, a character should have a 20 in their main stat. I see what you're saying but my situation is writing homebrew mainly for my table with an eye on the standard array other tables play with. There's level and class gating already built into this homebrew. I'm comparing those two things directly because I'm comparing our table to others. The system of rolling stats is explicitly part of the rules so it's valid to do so. The outcomes of some PCs having higher stats sooner just makes for a different tone of campaign and I think I already outlined how I see that. I see the array sums as the (very useful) baseline and as I said in my post I'm averaging the roll-stats results and finding the spectrum of ability score sums to be between 72 (array) and 80ish (rolled). I reckon that result would be fairly consistent using the same methods we did. You can test it immediately if you like.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 02:32
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:So what I'm getting from thw thread and my own reading is that 5e is a game of create a concwpt around the mechanics rather than create a concept and find mechanics that fit it. Nah, the trick is you need to ignore what the class names and descriptions say to pull off concepts. For example, if you want to play a really good wrestler and grappler type. Your instinct would be to play a strong class like a fighter or barbarian when in 5e you actually want to play a Bard or maybe a Rogue because of the way skill expertise works. An elf wardancer is just a lightly armoured melee character so you probably want to play either a sword school bard, a kensai monk or maybe a blade warlock with paladin levels. Those are the way to play 'fighter'. Its definitely possible you just need to work backwards and not trust what the name of the class indicates. Bard doesn't read as singer/musician/storyteller is should read as 'wrathful god who marches in full plate and crushes their foes in melee combat or maybe is like a wizard but with a special variety of spells.' EDIT: Actually Bard of Swords is probably your best bet for a wardancer type, just load up on self buff spells to reflect your inherent warhammer elfness so your attack DC doesn't matter on the spell (hence the lower CHA score you'll have wont really be a big deal) and then load up on dex and you should be good to go. kingcom fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jan 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 02:43
|
|
|
Willie Tomg posted:Yeah I'm biased because... y'know, first 5e character which I made just throwing numbers everywhere, but MAN ALIVE I wish someone just tapped me on the shoulder and went "btw homie, INT is literally useless for nonwizards except for a few fluff checks" What D&D needs is less ability scores--no more than four at most. Might (Str and Con), Agility, Wit (Int and Wis), and Charisma. If your Wit was both your Int and your Wis, for example, you wouldn't have to worry about having the "right" score. Your character is either exceptionally intelligent or he isn't, and you pick the abilities and skills that he uses his intelligence for (or doesn't).
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 02:48
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:So what I'm getting from thw thread and my own reading is that 5e is a game of create a concwpt around the mechanics rather than create a concept and find mechanics that fit it. Correct, as further evidenced by all the people replying how your concept totally works in X class if you just cut off several key parts away from it. D&D has long since moved away from being a system that tries to emulate sword and sorcery pop fantasy; all D&D emulates now is D&D itself. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jan 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 02:51
|
|
|
The Slack Lagoon posted:Ran my second ever session as a DM and it seemed to go well! Also this got missed but good job ! DMing definitely isn't easy and 5e can be a lot to get your head around but glad its going well!
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 02:54
|
|
|
Kensai Monk dipping into Eldritch Knight or Rogue dipping into Wizard seem to be the two best choices. My bud suggested making him only speak Sylvian or something to reall push the angry elf thing. I plan on doing that by running all my IC speach through google translate and attempting to pronounce the results (in russian) That or ditch the idea completely and play drug dealing alchemist.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 03:06
|
|
|
There's no alchemist class or alchemy related mechanics in 5e.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 03:08
|
|
|
On the topic of Elf Wardancer: This is why optimization shouldn't be a dirty word. General optimization can suck. You don't want someone who knows how to find "literally the best build" to do that at your table; that sucks. Usually it's game breaking. But if someone comes to you and says, "Listen, I want to play Prince of Persia", it's helpful to know how to do that within the rules with liberal amounts of serial-number-changing. The point is to take a concept and make it the best at its stated purpose as you can. There are ways to play just about anything, but the tricky thing is you can't trust your instincts on how to put those lego blocks together to make it work. That's one of the primary criticisms in D&D and why the culture of optimization persists; you need it if you want to be able to play the character you want to play.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 03:19
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:There's no alchemist class or alchemy related mechanics in 5e. Then how do you get your magic drugs?!?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 03:24
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:Then how do you get your magic drugs?!? They get conflated a lot but alchemy isn't chemistry. Although it can get confusing when you get stuff like "ah, just as we try to turn our lead into gold, we try to refine our base selves into higher beings" but they don't actually do that by taking drugs. Except in Unknown Armies but that's literally called Narco-Alchemy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 03:41
|
|
|
mango sentinel posted:
There's really nothing stopping you from adapting the dungeons and puzzles and Nyanzaru setpieces in its own lighter-weight thing of course, I can see that being a lot of fun for a casual group that likes poking around a place! It would be a substantial editing process however. Not least of which would be revisiting the entire initial hook of the module: that The Good Kind Of Necromancy has stopped working as intended, as well as the entirely of Chapter 2's content. It's definitely a good well of ideas upon which to build those Indiana Jones funtimes you're looking for though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 03:51
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:There's no alchemist class or alchemy related mechanics in 5e. "Alchemist" is an archetype for the artificer class from UA, isn't it? From memory it's a bit poo poo but it does exist.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 05:12
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:"Alchemist" is an archetype for the artificer class from UA, isn't it? From memory it's a bit poo poo but it does exist. Yep!
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 06:52
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:While it's fine in individual cases, it still seems stupid that clerics with bad religion modifiers are even possible.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 07:54
|
|
|
You need only a cursory read of it to see why I stand by what I said.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 07:54
|
|
|
FRINGE posted:I dont know, unless they specifically study "religions" it doesnt seem weird at all to me that "priest of light" doesnt know anything very reliable about "religion of oceans". And they probably easily right off "religion of night" as "crazy confused people being lead down the road of evil" becuase of course that what they think. That seems like it'd apply pretty well in a setting with hands-off gods who never made a personal appearance. Not so much when the gods in question are obviously real and send minions to do stuff and occasionally show up in person to smite things. Because it's not like IRL when the conflict stems from "I've got the only real god". The gods clearly exist, right? The conflict stems from the gods themselves being in conflict.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 08:33
|
|
|
I don't really have any interest in the Kensei monk but I still involuntarily twitch like a prescriptivist idiot when you people spell it with an A. Does this come from something? I see it everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 10:03
|
|
|
FRINGE posted:I dont know, unless they specifically study "religions" it doesnt seem weird at all to me that "priest of light" doesnt know anything very reliable about "religion of oceans". And they probably easily right off "religion of night" as "crazy confused people being lead down the road of evil" becuase of course that what they think.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 10:07
|
|
|
Nehru the Damaja posted:I don't really have any interest in the Kensei monk but I still involuntarily twitch like a prescriptivist idiot when you people spell it with an A. 3.5 and Shogun: Total War.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 10:15
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:So what I'm getting from thw thread and my own reading is that 5e is a game of create a concwpt around the mechanics rather than create a concept and find mechanics that fit it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 10:20
|
|
|
Splicer posted:What are the bullet points that make a wardancer for you?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 11:49
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:
Make an Elf Monk
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 11:52
|
|
|
Yeah just be a Kensei or Long Death monk and fluff your bonus action attacks as the ponytail strike and your monk abilities as sweet magical tats.
Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jan 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 12:04
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:
e: check out the UA eberron article for some Splicer fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jan 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 12:12
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Meanwhile Wizards just got one class feature (full spell progression) so were clearly underpowered without those free metamagics. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 12:46
|
|
|
Well, the overall assertion is kinda right (Wizards are like the 3rd best caster until 11+), and despite the number of them their archetypes are almost all garbage with maybe one notable ability per, but this guy is just loving wrong about what Wizard qualities are.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 12:58
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Pretty sure a priest of Apollo would have had at least a cursory knowledge of who Artemis and Poseidon were. AlphaDog posted:That seems like it'd apply pretty well in a setting with hands-off gods who never made a personal appearance.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 15:23
|
|
|
The disjunction here is that you should only ask for a roll for obscure things (like the above) and not general facts. If someone is a cleric let them know more about living religions without a roll and basically never ask for rolls regarding their own religion, trained or otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 15:48
|
|
|
Are arcane tricksters more like wizards or sorcerers for how spells known work?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:14
|
|
|
The Slack Lagoon posted:Are arcane tricksters more like wizards or sorcerers for how spells known work? More like Sorcerers. They have a limited number of spells known, but all of the spells that they know, are always prepared for them. Note that the new spell you gain at level 8, level 14, and level 20 can be from any spell school. Also, note that whenever you level up, you can unlearn one spell that you know, and replace it with something else.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:24
|
|
|
Hmm an Arcane Trickster can grab Shadow Blade. On the one hand they don't get very high spell levels so it won't be as powerful as on a Wizard or Sorcerer, but is probably the most useful class to put it on. It would be a better weapon than pretty much anything they can use. Its a pity there isn't an invocation or something that would let the Warlock use the Shadow Blade as their Pact Weapon, especially for a Pact of the Blade Hexblade. Man even if it was like a level 8 Invocation that required Hexblade and Pact of the Blade, if it let you make your Pact Weapon basically the Shadow Blade at the level your Warlock slots are at, but without using a spell slot or Concentration, at will would be really nice. It would give the Pact of the Blade a reason to actually use their weapon instead of just spamming Eldritch Blast.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 19:23
|
|
|
He's right. Between the warlock, sorcerer, and bard, there's not really any narrative left to explain how and why a wizard casts magic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 19:44
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:He's right. Between the warlock, sorcerer, and bard, there's not really any narrative left to explain how and why a wizard casts magic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 19:49
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:He's right. Between the warlock, sorcerer, and bard, there's not really any narrative left to explain how and why a wizard casts magic. Imbued, innate, intuition, and education
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 19:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 07:19 |
|
|
The thing is, there is already a caster who amasses arcane secrets and mysteries which enable them to perform feats of magic: the warlock. So the wizard is like an electrician or something. Yawn!
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 19:54
|
|