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BlazetheInferno posted:In short, reality ensues. Average people have a very hard time letting go of strong grudges and old hatreds, no matter how hard their leaders try to work together. Hell, the Rexxar campaign in Frozen Throne already starts to show how shaky that "peace" is. Appropriately, announced on the day that we found out in WoW that the Alliance will be getting playable orcs down the line in the new expansion. 
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Jan 30, 2018 22:48
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Cythereal posted:Appropriately, announced on the day that we found out in WoW that the Alliance will be getting playable orcs down the line in the new expansion. ...I'm sorry, what?
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Jan 30, 2018 22:55
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DoubleNegative posted:...I'm sorry, what? It was revealed during the live Q&A today. So, back during Warlords of Draenor in that alternate timeline version of the orc homeworld, when Ner'zhul went evil under different circumstances in the main timeline, a significant number of the Shadowmoon Clan resisted - lead by Ner'zhul's wife, Rukhan (long dead in the primary timeline). These Shadowmoon exiles befriended the draenei in the area, and then the Alliance when the PCs arrived. Indeed, Ner'zhul's wife was one of the Alliance PC's first followers serving in the Alliance's main base on Draenor. According to the Q&A guy, these alternate timeline Shadowmoon exiles under Rukhan's leadership will be joining the Alliance and venturing over into the main timeline.
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Jan 30, 2018 22:59
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Man, World of Warcraft's plot became such bollocks. I miss the time the biggest, lore-endingest retcon was when the first expansion switched around whether the Eredar or Nathrezim did their respective things in the single paragraph of Burning Legion backstory that existed before. But that's all like twenty years in the future of here, where a weird crow man wants the king to sail west. But hey, at least it looks like he's going to try with someone else! What crazy shenanigans could become of this?
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Jan 30, 2018 23:07
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Cythereal posted:It was revealed during the live Q&A today. That time travelling plotline kinda took the wind out of what ragged shreds there were left of Warcraft's lore's sails, didn't it?
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Jan 30, 2018 23:12
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Cythereal posted:It was revealed during the live Q&A today. 
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Jan 30, 2018 23:16
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I thought only comic books were allowed to be that stupid with their stories.
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Jan 30, 2018 23:18
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Poil posted:Are they whiter than the horde orcs too? To the contrary, they're brown-skinned, reflecting that they never drank demon's blood. The distinguishing traits of the Shadowmoon were that they were a scholarly, mystical clan who uniquely among the clans valued intellectual pursuits above the physical. The white/grey skinned orcs are the Shattered Hand clan. Edit: And in any event, goons corrected me. The guy on the Q&A stream said the brown-skinned orcs from alt-Draenor would be an Allied race, not an Alliance race - no affiliation specified. Sorry for the derail. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jan 30, 2018 |
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Jan 30, 2018 23:21
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What next? The ability to raid Diablo and his brothers in WoW? Actually, that might be fun. 
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Jan 30, 2018 23:29
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achtungnight posted:What next? The ability to raid Diablo and his brothers in WoW? Actually, that might be fun. Doesn't WoW already have spaceships? Why not have fight the Protoss Armada.
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Jan 30, 2018 23:57
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Now we just need to find a way to add the Lost Vikings in there somewhere and it can be a big Blizzard reunion.
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Jan 31, 2018 00:24
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Klaus88 posted:I thought only comic books were allowed to be that stupid with their stories. Blizzard has been doing stories like this since Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty came out so this is business as usual
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Jan 31, 2018 01:52
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General Revil posted:Now we just need to find a way to add the Lost Vikings in there somewhere and it can be a big Blizzard reunion. They actually are already.  The three of them appear in the Badlands, and Horde characters can fight them in the low-level dungeon of that zone, Uldaman.
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Jan 31, 2018 02:31
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Wait alliance dont?
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Jan 31, 2018 02:53
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Nah, they're friendly to the Alliance.
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Jan 31, 2018 02:55
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Ok, but how does Kyle Blackthorne fit in here?
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Jan 31, 2018 03:21
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He chose to perpetually sidle into a small nook for eternity, rendering himself undetectable and invulnerable. Neither sides can interact with him.
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Jan 31, 2018 04:29
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lobster22221 posted:Doesn't WoW already have spaceships? Why not have fight the Protoss Armada. They at least cribbed the Protoss look for the Lightforged.
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Jan 31, 2018 09:06
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I actually really like the Legion aesthetic they developed of bizarre apocalyptic technology mixed with bizarre demon magic. It's really hard to tell where the clattering brass stops and the weird green fire begins, and I think that's cool.
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Jan 31, 2018 09:13
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wiegieman posted:I actually really like the Legion aesthetic they developed of bizarre apocalyptic technology mixed with bizarre demon magic. It's really hard to tell where the clattering brass stops and the weird green fire begins, and I think that's cool. I was joking about the protoss, and I've only played warcraft 2 and 3, but I've seen sections of WoW over the years, and It always seemed like the game was becoming more and more sci-fi in many ways, which I actually like. It really starts in this game with a bit of steam punk, and just escalates.
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Jan 31, 2018 09:22
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lobster22221 posted:I was joking about the protoss, and I've only played warcraft 2 and 3, but I've seen sections of WoW over the years, and It always seemed like the game was becoming more and more sci-fi in many ways, which I actually like. It really starts in this game with a bit of steam punk, and just escalates. That was going at full steam in the first expansion.
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Jan 31, 2018 10:04
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I mean, the secret behind Warcraft's success is that, when it comes down to it, the setting actually is pretty cool. Visually, primarily, but even the story, ludicrous and repetitive (let's spin the Wheel of Corruption to see who gets it this expansion!) as it may be, has something viscerally appealing to it and people keep coming back to it again and again. But come on, Blizzard, Warcraft IV when?
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Jan 31, 2018 10:13
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I mean, the secret behind Warcraft's success is that, when it comes down to it, the setting actually is pretty cool. Visually, primarily, but even the story, ludicrous and repetitive (let's spin the Wheel of Corruption to see who gets it this expansion!) as it may be, has something viscerally appealing to it and people keep coming back to it again and again. But come on, Blizzard, Warcraft IV when? It's a mishmash of blatantly stolen designs and characters, coated in heavy metal and high fantasy, and it's better than the sum of its parts.
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Jan 31, 2018 10:19
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Warcraft has always had a sense of joy and fun to it. It enjoys being over the top and embraces just being dumb fantasy.
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Jan 31, 2018 10:28
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SirSamVimes posted:Warcraft has always had a sense of joy and fun to it. It enjoys being over the top and embraces just being dumb fantasy. Now if only the story writers would get the message. It's part of why I so dislike the Legion expansion. This game here is the one and only time I've felt the Burning Legion was a convincing threat. The rest of the time, Sargeras might as well be Cobra Commander.
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Jan 31, 2018 14:44
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BlazetheInferno posted:In short, reality ensues. Average people have a very hard time letting go of strong grudges and old hatreds, no matter how hard their leaders try to work together. Hell, the Rexxar campaign in Frozen Throne already starts to show how shaky that "peace" is. The problem has never been that basic idea, but rather that WoW so utterly fails to convincingly execute on it. There are believable ways to depict cyclical violence and hatred but...WoW mostly does it by having people taking turns holding the Idiot Ball in the most hamhanded way possible.
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Jan 31, 2018 15:26
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Cythereal posted:To the contrary, they're brown-skinned, reflecting that they never drank demon's blood. The distinguishing traits of the Shadowmoon were that they were a scholarly, mystical clan who uniquely among the clans valued intellectual pursuits above the physical. I would have commented on this, but you corrected yourself. For clarification, "Allied Races" are Blizzard's take on the old Sub-races people in WoW have wanted for a while. So, Highmountain Tauren (aka Moose Tauren, Canadian Tauren, etc), Nightborne (related to Night Elves, but joining the Horde because they get along with the Blood Elves), Lightforged Draenei (shinier than ever), and Void Elves (Blood Elves that dabbled in void magic and got exiled and joined the Alliance) are all playable right now for people who preordered BFA and unlocked them. More coming. Though if they're not specifying the Shadowmoon exiles, and merely talked about the brown-skinned orcs, then they'll almost certainly be a Horde allied race, not Alliance. People have been asking for playable Brown Orcs since Burning Crusade.
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Jan 31, 2018 21:33
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BlazetheInferno posted:I would have commented on this, but you corrected yourself. Yeah, I should have known better when I was told Blizzard was making a brave and interesting choice with the story. For those curious, though, here are the major orc clans and their colors from WC2 to contrast the original seven human kingdoms. Red: Blackrocks Blue: Stormreavers Purple: Twilight's Hammer Black: Black Tooth Grin White: Dragonmaw Orange: Burning Blade Green: Bleeding Hollow Cythereal fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Feb 1, 2018 |
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Jan 31, 2018 22:42
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Where did all of these orcs come from? Weren't they from another realm (which they somehow also shared with that weird "new" race in WoW, which no-one had heard), and most of them became demon worshippers, and then invaded the human realm because their planet was falling apart?
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Feb 1, 2018 16:17
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painedforever posted:Where did all of these orcs come from? Weren't they from another realm (which they somehow also shared with that weird "new" race in WoW, which no-one had heard), and most of them became demon worshippers, and then invaded the human realm because their planet was falling apart? These seven clans I mentioned are from Draenor, the orc homeworld. Once a proud and savage warrior race, the orcs were corrupted by demons and began to worship them, becoming the Horde. At the demons' command, they invaded the human planet of Azeroth. This is the plot to WC1 and 2. Here at the present in WC3, a young new leader among the orcs is trying to build a new Horde free of demonic corruption that will stand for itself. The WoW stuff involves an alternate timeline where events proceeded very differently on Draenor crossing over with the main timeline and is best ignored. There's also a bunch more orc clans, from the WC2 expansion: Warsong - Red Shadowmoon - Black Shattered Hand - White Thunderlord - Purple Laughing Skull - Yellow Bonechewer - Green Frostwolves - Blue
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Feb 1, 2018 16:37
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Do they also have some sort of personality, or are they even more deprived than WC2 humans?
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Feb 1, 2018 16:45
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Xander77 posted:Do they also have some sort of personality, or are they even more deprived than WC2 humans? Digging out my manuals. Back then... Blackrocks: Ruling clan of the Horde, most numerous and loyal. Stormreavers: Power behind the throne of the Horde, consist mainly of warlocks and mages. Twilight's Hammer: apocalyptic cult serving the Horde for now, more interested in its belief that they are a sacred harbinger of oblivion than in loyalty to the Horde. Black Tooth Grin: Splinter faction from the Blackrock, riven with political strife and uncertain leadership. Bleeding Hollow: The most ruthless and savage of the clans, but also placing the needs of the Horde above their own glory. Burning Blade: Not a clan properly, but a collection of outcast orcs so bloodthirsty and uncontrollable that they were kicked out from their clans and kept forcibly in line by ogre magi as a weapon of last resort. Dragonmaw: Small but elite clan, masters of shamanistic magic that learned to bind and dominate dragons to their service as weapons of war and represent the Horde air force. Shadowmoon: Rulers of Draenor back home while the Horde invades Azeroth, the Shadowmoon are mysterious and masters of dark magic, keeping the home clans in line by fear. Warsong: Aggressive even by orc standards, known for their howling war cries and mightily enraged that they weren't sent to Azeroth. Shattered Hand: Fanatically loyal to their clan and noted for both their sadism and masochism, warriors of the Shattered Hand traditionally cut off one of their own hands and replace it with a weapon. Thunderlords: Primitive and old-fashioned by orc standards, the Thunderlords disdain magic and bloodlust in favor of wolf-mounted cavalry tactics. Frostwolves: A wise and shamanistic clan that clings tightly to the past, and tries to keep things running on Draenor rather than chase glory on Azeroth. Laughing Skull: Treacherous and deceptive, the spies and assassins of the Horde whose loyalties to anyone but themselves are a question mark. Valued by the Horde, but not trusted. Bonechewers: Savage to the point of open cannibalism and wearing the bones of their victims. Considered so difficult to control they were kept on Draenor.
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Feb 1, 2018 16:58
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It's honestly on about the same level in Warcrafts 1-3; they're more team colors than anything else. At the beginning of WoW, the only human/orc factions that had any real presence at all were Stormwind for the humans and the Warsong/Blackrock/Frostwolf for the orcs, so those got a little bit of personality - if only because they were the only ones really around. All the rest had basically nothing until Warlords of Draenor hit and suddenly all the orc clans have a unique leader and something of a schtick going for them. Blizzard also released around that time a set of books about the pre-history of the universe before the games that flesh out the backstories of a lot of the factions.
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Feb 1, 2018 17:00
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Also, the deadliest of them all: The flowerpicker clan. Should be noted, Draenor flowers could and actually DID stab you. 
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Feb 1, 2018 17:26
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Frostwolves weren't in War2. Nobody was Orc blue for BtDP.
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Feb 1, 2018 17:28
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painedforever posted:Where did all of these orcs come from? Weren't they from another realm (which they somehow also shared with that weird "new" race in WoW, which no-one had heard), and most of them became demon worshippers, and then invaded the human realm because their planet was falling apart? Their planet was fine when the invasion began. The demons (Burning Legion) want to get to Azeroth (for reasons I do not want to spoil) but opening a portal to get the Legion there requires a lot of magical arcane power. The corrupted orc shamans turned into warlocks who formed the Shadow Council were taught the magic they needed to open the portal (with help from the human side) to Azeroth with the plan to establish themselves and then use their magic to let the demons come. The orcs won the first war against Stormwind (Warcraft 1)but were bested by the forces of Lordaeron and the rest of the Alliance (Warcraft 2). Part of the reason the orcs lost was Gul’dan, the most powerful warlock, betrayed the Horde seeking an artifact he believed would give him power. The portal was destroyed and the orcs placed in the camps. The orcs still on Draenor fell in with Ner’Zhul who latched onto a plan to open multiple portals and conquer many worlds (Warcraft 2 Expansion) They began gathering the artifacts they needed including rebuilding the portal to steal magical items from Azeroth. The plan succeeded and they opened the portals but the portals ripped Draenor apart. Ner’Zhul was taken by the Burning Legion and “repurposed” (we see him more later in the game). Azeroth did not suffer from that cataclysm except for their expeditionary force in Draenor which was presumably wiped out.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:18
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:It's honestly on about the same level in Warcrafts 1-3; they're more team colors than anything else. At the beginning of WoW, the only human/orc factions that had any real presence at all were Stormwind for the humans and the Warsong/Blackrock/Frostwolf for the orcs, so those got a little bit of personality - if only because they were the only ones really around. All the rest had basically nothing until Warlords of Draenor hit and suddenly all the orc clans have a unique leader and something of a schtick going for them. Blizzard also released around that time a set of books about the pre-history of the universe before the games that flesh out the backstories of a lot of the factions. The multiple colors thing were useful for multiplayer. It was a Blizzard thing. Many of the colors in Starcraft were given faction titles and then were never used in the campaign. I do not believe they used all the colors in Warcraft 2 in the campaign either. Warcraft 1 only had blue for humans and red for orcs. Warcraft 3 has colors but I do not think they were explicitly assigned to factions though the player always uses the same one for each campaign.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:24
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McTimmy posted:Frostwolves weren't in War2. Nobody was Orc blue for BtDP. The Frostwolf clan participated in the First War but not the Second. Thus, no wolf rider units in Warcraft 2. The spot was filled by Ogres.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:26
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:It's honestly on about the same level in Warcrafts 1-3; they're more team colors than anything else. At the beginning of WoW, the only human/orc factions that had any real presence at all were Stormwind for the humans and the Warsong/Blackrock/Frostwolf for the orcs, so those got a little bit of personality - if only because they were the only ones really around. All the rest had basically nothing until Warlords of Draenor hit and suddenly all the orc clans have a unique leader and something of a schtick going for them. Blizzard also released around that time a set of books about the pre-history of the universe before the games that flesh out the backstories of a lot of the factions. Nah, guldan and his clan backstabbing you is a major plot point in wc2 so there was some barebones there to justify the mirror matches. In wc3 the groups that show up are given an identity greater than just a team color, but we'll see that as we meet more people during the campaign.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:31
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Xenocides posted:
Was that the case? I thought certain factions were assigned a color. Black was hard coded for each neutral type(Neutral passive, neutral aggressive, and I think one more?). Individual unit types could have the color overridden.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:37
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