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Tafferling
Oct 22, 2008

DOOT DOOT
ALL ABOARD THE ISS POLOKONZERVA
"Your romance options expand" should be the subtitle for the games subforum.

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SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


Judging by "your dating options expand", the teased new game mode is obviously a dating insulator.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
Finally I can seduce Divine and have her bite off my head.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


Internet Kraken posted:

Finally I can seduce Divine and have her bite off my head.

smh if your plan isn't to romance grimm

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused

SirSamVimes posted:

smh if your plan isn't to romance grimm

He broke my heart after he burnt his body and inserted his soul inside our magic flame baby.

Knorth
Aug 19, 2014

Buglord
Ooh switch version is coming out before this new patch

And sounds like the regular game is getting some optimisation patches because of the work from the Switch version too, nice

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.


So this is still free.... and after this still comes an even bigger one that will have a price no? I'm so in. These devs are cool.

Andrigaar
Dec 12, 2003
Saint of Killers
I'm not sure how this game's clock measures time (and when it decides not to), but sort of following a 3-hour speedrun guide I was able to finish the game in a claimed 4h4m.

And with fancy new DLC announced, I can put this game down until then. Because gently caress the Trial of Fools :colbert:

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
poo poo, I guess I'd better hurry up and finish this game (yes I know it says you'll be able to access the new stuff at any point in the game)

Inepta Lacerta
Nov 20, 2012

.
Really quite silly indeed.

Team Cherry keeping up with being awesome in supporting the game, I see.

So. loving. Stoked. Can't wait.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

goddammit I gotta play through again

RedMagus
Nov 16, 2005

Male....Female...what does it matter? Power is beautiful, and I've got the power!
Grimey Drawer
Pfft, obviously this is the long-awaited Myra redemption patch!

I'm hyped for this, I wonder if there's going to be a physical game release for Switch!

Capri Sun Tzu
Oct 24, 2017

by Reene

Internet Kraken posted:

The King did not create the first civilization or give literal mind and soul to all the bugs of Hallownest. Its pretty clear that not only are there civilizations outside of Hallownest, but also that other civilizations existed where Hallownest now stands. There are foreign travelers, mention of other lands and kingdoms beyond the borders, and clear indication of precursors to the Pale King's civilization.

The tablets are probably just an embellishment of the Pale King building a new civilization on the ruins of Radiance's. That or they could hint at a relationship between the King and his retainers that went beyond ruler and subject. The King might of had a way to share his power with the retainers and grant them higher intellect. Such intellect would be lost if they strayed away from the King, and thus they would no longer be "higher beings". This could be why Retainers are present in the White Palace dream; they go beyond being memories and are literally part of the King's mind due to this connection.

But again I consider it equally likely the Pale King's ego was so large that he thought anyone outside of Hallownest a savage and everything that predated it to be worthless. It was only through his grace that they were elevated to a state he considered intelligent. The White Bug's Burden.
He didn't create the first civilization, but he did create Hallownest. Before his arrival the bugs were... bugs, not sentient creatures. At least most of them, although it's hinted that some of the races were sentient outside of his power (e.g., The queen in the Hive). The pale king is a reincarnation of the white wyrm found in Kingdom's Edge and it's inferred that these wyrms are highly intelligent, god-like creatures and that this exact cycle has happened before

"...Wyrm's pull bugs into their thrall,
Till ages pass and kingdoms fall
Caps and shells may fall to dust,
But Mr Mushroom readjusts..."

Also a tablet in Howling Cliffs indeed states that any bugs who stray too far from Hallownest lose their sentience
"Higher beings, these words are for you alone. These blasted plains stretch never-ending. There is no world beyond. Those foolish enough to traverse this void must pay the toll and relinquish the precious mind this kingdom grants"

Your Computer posted:

:eyepop:
"Selfish God King clings to dying empire, messes with the natural order of things, pain and suffering ensues" where have I heard that story before:thunk:

If I understand it correctly the Pale King essentially granted individual minds and thus personalities, culture and civilization to the bugs? Was it a secret plot to contain the dark soul achieve world domination or does it kinda seem... not that bad? I mean unless you regard civilization as a mistake (which you might). Some of the lore tablets make him sound a bit sinister (from creatures who do not "share his vision") but as far as I can see he did nothing wrong doesn't seem malicious at all.



well, as far as monarchs go anyway :thermidor:

The Pale King is an interesting character and seems mostly benign, although he is a god-monarch despot who displaces the previous god and will go to any length to keep his vision intact. It's not a clear cut case of right or wrong

Capri Sun Tzu fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jan 31, 2018

Zaggitz
Jun 18, 2009

My urges are becoming...

UNCONTROLLABLE

If the new game mode is NG+ ill basically never ever stop playing this game.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
What would you see persisting for an NG+? Everything (including monarch wings and shadow dash etc.) so you could have fun breaking the game, or just make it a hard mode?

Capri Sun Tzu
Oct 24, 2017

by Reene

No Wave posted:

What would you see persisting for an NG+? Everything (including monarch wings and shadow dash etc.) so you could have fun breaking the game, or just make it a hard mode?
You keep everything but die in one hit

Zaggitz
Jun 18, 2009

My urges are becoming...

UNCONTROLLABLE

It'd be cool if they let you choose what carries over. Starting a game with all the exploration upgrades but nothing else would be alot of fun.

Zaggitz
Jun 18, 2009

My urges are becoming...

UNCONTROLLABLE

Another thing they mention in their blog post is that they are working on some heavy optimization upgrades for the PC version as they tweak the switch version. Looking forward to actually being able to beat Nightmare King Grimm on my laptop without massive frame drops!!

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
I hope new mode is boss rush. I'd have to learn how to beat the Failed Champion but probably worth.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused

Capri Sun Tzu posted:

He didn't create the first civilization, but he did create Hallownest. Before his arrival the bugs were... bugs, not sentient creatures. At least most of them, although it's hinted that some of the races were sentient outside of his power (e.g., The queen in the Hive). The pale king is a reincarnation of the white wyrm found in Kingdom's Edge and it's inferred that these wyrms are highly intelligent, god-like creatures and that this exact cycle has happened before

"...Wyrm's pull bugs into their thrall,
Till ages pass and kingdoms fall
Caps and shells may fall to dust,
But Mr Mushroom readjusts..."

Also a tablet in Howling Cliffs indeed states that any bugs who stray too far from Hallownest lose their sentience
"Higher beings, these words are for you alone. These blasted plains stretch never-ending. There is no world beyond. Those foolish enough to traverse this void must pay the toll and relinquish the precious mind this kingdom grants"

Addressing that was the entire point of my post. I'm not sure how you missed that but let me make it clear; the idea that bugs weren't sentient before the Pale King came is obviously not true. Because in Hallownest alone you have evidence of the Moth and Void civilizations, both of which predate the arrival of Pale King. Again, the tablets talking about the King granting literal minds to his subjects are either embellishment or referring to a special bond between the King and his retainers.

No Wave posted:

What would you see persisting for an NG+? Everything (including monarch wings and shadow dash etc.) so you could have fun breaking the game, or just make it a hard mode?

Charms are the only upgrade I would really want to carry into NG+. That way I could replay the game with different builds rather than using the same easily acquired charms for most of it.

In a dream world they would make a NG+ that gives you all your upgrades but also drastically boosts the difficulty of everything.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

No Wave posted:

I hope new mode is boss rush. I'd have to learn how to beat the Failed Champion but probably worth.

I'd love a boss rush/refight mode even if they scaled your equipment and abilities down to what you would realistically have in-game. The boss fights in this game have been some of my favorite moments.

Capri Sun Tzu
Oct 24, 2017

by Reene

Internet Kraken posted:

Addressing that was the entire point of my post. I'm not sure how you missed that but let me make it clear; the idea that bugs weren't sentient before the Pale King came is obviously not true. Because in Hallownest alone you have evidence of the Moth and Void civilizations, both of which predate the arrival of Pale King. Again, the tablets talking about the King granting literal minds to his subjects are either embellishment or referring to a special bond between the King and his retainers.
My read is that they "weren't sentient" because they were held in mindless thrall by the Radiance, which the Pale King liberated them from, not that the Pale King is the sole source of consciousness in the world.

So It Goes
Feb 18, 2011
I interpreted the lore as when the radiance was in control the bugs were just an insect hive mind and with the wyrm this was removed, giving rise to individuality and personality.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



But moths existed also and obviously weren’t enthralled, or at the very least they escaped it, because they turned on the Radiance and helped the Pale King subdue her.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
I think its vague enough that either interpretation could be correct. Its possible that every bug in Hallownest was enthralled by the Radiance before the Pale King banished her. Personally I think that isn't the case, and that the Radiance died from something else. The moth's were worshiping her memory in the dream, but when the Pale King's kingdom rose they abandoned her memory in favor of the King. Her memory, which longed to be remembered forever, lashed out at the Pale King's subjects because of this.

I like that interpretation more because I feel it fits the themes of the game better. If the Pale King overthrew the Radiance while she was still ruling then she has reason to be pissed. But if the Pale King merely inherited the ashes of her kingdom and built a new one over it, she's a figment of the past that refuses to be forgotten. And I think that touches on more of the themes about life, memory, and how something can endure in the mind's of others long after it has faded away.

Vakal
May 11, 2008

Andrigaar posted:

Because gently caress the Trial of Fools :colbert:

Eh, it's not that bad. The only hard sections are the multiple rounds where there is no floor.

Once you have the upgraded magic blast you can pretty much just cheese it by using the shaman charm and staying on the wall while just blasting everything.

Capri Sun Tzu
Oct 24, 2017

by Reene

Internet Kraken posted:

I think its vague enough that either interpretation could be correct. Its possible that every bug in Hallownest was enthralled by the Radiance before the Pale King banished her. Personally I think that isn't the case, and that the Radiance died from something else. The moth's were worshiping her memory in the dream, but when the Pale King's kingdom rose they abandoned her memory in favor of the King. Her memory, which longed to be remembered forever, lashed out at the Pale King's subjects because of this.

I like that interpretation more because I feel it fits the themes of the game better. If the Pale King overthrew the Radiance while she was still ruling then she has reason to be pissed. But if the Pale King merely inherited the ashes of her kingdom and built a new one over it, she's a figment of the past that refuses to be forgotten. And I think that touches on more of the themes about life, memory, and how something can endure in the mind's of others long after it has faded away.
I like your interpretation more. It's also possible that the Radiance has always only existed in dreams. Whatever the case, under her rule/worship the bugs of Hollownest were mindless, bestial creatures:

What cost to tame our savagery? You gave your all and then gave more.
Yet still desires lay unquenched, more dreams remained, your energies spent.
Amongst it sprang a dreadful scourge,
That forced return our aggressive urge,
And turned us back to beasts or husks,
Our souls consumed by light above.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
I've been thinking about that. Fair warning that I'm about to delve into some pretty out there ~game theories~.

It is stated multiple times throughout the game that creatures under the influence of the Radiance are reduced to their "base instincts". When we think of instincts, we think of our most basic needs and the drive to fulfill them. But there are creatures under the influence of the Radiance that do more than just hunt and kill. The bugs cling to past remnants of their lives. If they had all been reduced to nothing but the most basic levels of intelligence, why would that be?

I think the game is using instinct in a different way than we normally. Instinct here isn't our basic animal needs. Its a distilled summary of who we are as people and what we are driven to do. A guard of Hallownest has the "instinct" to guard, so under the Radiance they endlessly patrol. A noble has the "instinct" that they must hoard wealth and lord it over others, so they continue to do so even though its pointless. Fools in the Colosseum have the "instinct" to fight for glory, so they engage in combat forever. None of these are instincts a creature could be born with, but under the Radiance this is what they are compelled to do.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
Hallownest does seem like a decline of Rome situation where they became enormously sophisticated and advanced, then just fell apart. The mantises by and large weren't affected but they didn't embrace technology/wealth the same way.

I think there's a difference posed between the stag, who explores, and the mindless bugs like the guards/nobles who repeat the same actions over and over.

So It Goes
Feb 18, 2011

Internet Kraken posted:

I think its vague enough that either interpretation could be correct. Its possible that every bug in Hallownest was enthralled by the Radiance before the Pale King banished her. Personally I think that isn't the case, and that the Radiance died from something else. The moth's were worshiping her memory in the dream, but when the Pale King's kingdom rose they abandoned her memory in favor of the King. Her memory, which longed to be remembered forever, lashed out at the Pale King's subjects because of this.

One of the radiance’s dream nail lines refers to you as ancient enemy. This suggests to me there was a direct conflict between the radiance and pale king.

Capri Sun Tzu
Oct 24, 2017

by Reene

So It Goes posted:

One of the radiance’s dream nail lines refers to you as ancient enemy. This suggests to me there was a direct conflict between the radiance and pale king.
Or that Light and Void have always been enemies

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



The Seer's dialogue implies that there was a more literal betrayal of the Radiance, which suggests that it was actively sealed away rather than just kind of fading away when the Pale King became the new hotness to worship.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

i like the bit where you jump over spikes and hit a jellyfish with your sword

Andrigaar
Dec 12, 2003
Saint of Killers
I greatly dislike that touching those spikes can either kick you back 2 jumps or multiple screens instead of just damaging the bug-bro.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

see, the pro move is to actually avoid touching the spikes, and instead, to not touch them

GenericOverusedName
Nov 24, 2009

KUVA TEAM EPIC
The real pro move is to hit the spikes with your nail to pogo off of them.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:

i like the bit where you jump over spikes and hit a jellyfish with your sword

I like the part where the one mask dude comes running in and cuts the jellyfish apart with the katana while screaming fake japanese. Then you look at a lake with him.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
I'm going to kiss Quirrell and the elder and the singing mining bug and I'm going to cuck Cornifer and kiss his hot mantis wife.

Torquemadras
Jun 3, 2013

Okay, let's be real here for a moment

Hollow Knight features sentient insects. All over the place. There's also spiders, and snails, which is kinda pushing it, but whatevs.

And then there's jellyfish

Like

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Knorth
Aug 19, 2014

Buglord
There's also mushroom people

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