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sassassin posted:The Jedi are, of course, correct. Even though he had a high midichlorian count training Anakin was very bad for him and the Order. Training Anakin was fine for him, getting smacked in the head with Maul’s saber wasn’t 
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Feb 2, 2018 01:37
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100 degrees Calcium posted:We know the presence of midichlorians are a marker of "strength in the Force", but unless there's some book or video game that gets into it, we don't know what makes one strong in the Force. Anikin's strength appears to be a consequence of his uncommon birth, and his children inherited that from him. But that makes him and his descendants a special case. They are effectively demigods, and should be considered outliers. As a volcel warrior, I can't believe the means to acquiring strength in the Force wasn't already obvious ot me. euphronius posted:They made him a wierd celibate warrior for capitalism.
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Feb 2, 2018 01:40
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a nerd walks up: while some of you may be spending your super bowl rooting for the eagles to win the - heh - sports ball, i'll be rooting for the falcon. the nerd trips on his shoelace
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Feb 2, 2018 02:28
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2018 better be the end of at least one evil empire!!
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Feb 2, 2018 02:32
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Anyone got a release date for Last Laser Master
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Feb 2, 2018 07:42
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Will Kathleen Kennedy be fired? What a blunder.
Wank fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 11:36
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Wank posted:Will Kathleen Kennedy be fired? What a blunder. I watch rlmtoo!!!!
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Feb 2, 2018 13:25
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100 degrees Calcium posted:What harm was done to Anikin by the Jedi Council aside from putting him in range of Chancellor Palpatine's ambition? They also gave him the exact wrong advice when he was looking for answers on how to save loved ones. Granted, they didn't know the full story, but he was reaching out, and was basically told, "Don't attach yourself to people, you're beyond that, people die, poo poo happens", making him more vulnerable to someone providing answers from the wrong sources.
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Feb 2, 2018 14:32
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thrawn527 posted:They also gave him the exact wrong advice when he was looking for answers on how to save loved ones. Granted, they didn't know the full story, but he was reaching out, and was basically told, "Don't attach yourself to people, you're beyond that, people die, poo poo happens", making him more vulnerable to someone providing answers from the wrong sources. They were right though. His attachment and his motivation to push against inevitability turned him into a child-murdering death machine basically overnight. If he had listened to the Jedi, he wouldn't have fallen and, based on the apparent whimsy of prophecy and visions in Star Wars, Padme may not have died.
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Feb 2, 2018 18:59
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Yoda probably assumed Anakin was talking about Obi-Wan. He can't give Anakin better advice because he doesn't know Anakin is talking about Padme because Anakin can't tell him that he's married because it's against the Jedi rules. Maybe if Anakin had come clean and said, "I married Padme in secret and I'm having visions of her death and I can't stop it; please help me to work out how to save her," the Jedi would have said, "Okay, we'll help you now and talk about this later," and helped him. He's meant to be the Chosen One, after all. But equally, they might have said, "Sorry, you broke the rules, you're out," and then he'd have been completely bereft of access to their archives (which is why he was so upset he wasn't promoted to master when he was appointed to the Jedi Council; he'd have had access to their restricted section or something like that) and he'd have been in an even worse position.
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Feb 2, 2018 19:31
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I clearly remember the moment in the movie theater when I actually saw Yoda give Anakin that lovely, lovely advice. At that moment, I stopped caring about Star Wars (until recently).
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Feb 2, 2018 20:17
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Ema Nymton posted:I clearly remember the moment in the movie theater when I actually saw Yoda give Anakin that lovely, lovely advice. At that moment, I stopped caring about Star Wars (until recently). And that was the moment that Ema Nymton finally became president
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Feb 2, 2018 21:20
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100 degrees Calcium posted:They were right though. His attachment and his motivation to push against inevitability turned him into a child-murdering death machine basically overnight. If he had listened to the Jedi, he wouldn't have fallen and, based on the apparent whimsy of prophecy and visions in Star Wars, Padme may not have died. maybe if the jedi hadn't taken him away from his mom as a kid and then were like 'dont ever eve rthink about loving even tho you're a horny teen' instead of demanding he do superhuman self control feats, he wouldn't have had his mind totally messed up jedi are cops
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Feb 2, 2018 22:15
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Zas posted:maybe if the jedi hadn't taken him away from his mom as a kid and then were like 'dont ever eve rthink about loving even tho you're a horny teen' instead of demanding he do superhuman self control feats, he wouldn't have had his mind totally messed up Can't argue with the cops line. The Jedi cult was clearly hosed. But none of the other younglings they kidnapped and brainwashed grew up to be skull-faced murderers.
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Feb 2, 2018 22:25
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they're not as cool or daredevil as anakin though, they're plebs who he or clones killed in short order
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Feb 2, 2018 22:53
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100 degrees Calcium posted:Can't argue with the cops line. The Jedi cult was clearly hosed. But none of the other younglings they kidnapped and brainwashed grew up to be skull-faced murderers. Sure they did, they just murdered the "right" people. Negotiations with a light saber were common enough even before the war.
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Feb 2, 2018 23:14
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100 degrees Calcium posted:They were right though. His attachment and his motivation to push against inevitability turned him into a child-murdering death machine basically overnight. If he had listened to the Jedi, he wouldn't have fallen and, based on the apparent whimsy of prophecy and visions in Star Wars, Padme may not have died. Adhering to the Jedi rules might have saved Anakin long enough for him to be murdered in Order 66 with the rest of the cult.
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Feb 2, 2018 23:29
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sassassin posted:Adhering to the Jedi rules might have saved Anakin long enough for him to be murdered in Order 66 with the rest of the cult. Nope Mace would have ganked Palpatine and saved the galaxy.
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Feb 2, 2018 23:43
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porfiria posted:Nope Mace would have ganked Palpatine and saved the galaxy. Dooku would have cut off Windo's hand.
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Feb 2, 2018 23:46
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sassassin posted:Dooku would have cut off Windo's hand. Good Anakin already took care of those hands (hand removal being tacitly approved by the Jedi Order).
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Feb 2, 2018 23:48
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We would have, at best, Lord Protector Windu instead of Emperor Palpatine with the same result.
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Feb 2, 2018 23:48
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:We would have, at best, Lord Protector Windu instead of Emperor Palpatine with the same result. Windu would have ordered the annihilation of the Jedi Order?
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Feb 2, 2018 23:49
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The Clone Wars would likely either be indefinitely extended other crises would emerge--when you have a Grand Army, you end up with reasons to use it. Either way the Order would have to shut down the Senate pending an investigation. There's basically no saving the Republic at that point.
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Feb 2, 2018 23:55
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porfiria posted:Nope Mace would have ganked Palpatine and saved the galaxy. they wouldn't know poo poo unless palpatine told anakin explicitly that he was a lord of the sith. Which he wouldn't do if anakin was a hardliner
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Feb 3, 2018 00:05
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RotS goes to great lengths to establish that Anakin is merely a victim of the failure of the Republic and its Jedi, and not at fault for their demise. Sheev and the clones do all the real work, while Anakin kills children.
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Feb 3, 2018 00:06
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sassassin posted:Adhering to the Jedi rules might have saved Anakin long enough for him to be murdered in Order 66 with the rest of the cult. So he either joins Palpatine or he dies. That seems more like Palpatine's fault than the Jedi's fault. As far as I can tell, Anikin's fall and the fall of the Republic are basically separate stores that happen to have some overlapping events and participants. I'll be the first to declare the Jedi a backwards police force who's arrogance caused them to fail the Republic in a way that should have been obvious and predictable. But in Anikin's case: it was Palpatine's schemes and Anikin's incredibly short-sighted nature that led to his downfall, not the Jedi Order.
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Feb 3, 2018 01:41
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it's true that as far as we know no other jedi had any issue silencing their biological urges to gently caress. maybe they were reaallly good at being celibate monks, like better than any religion that exists in the real world, or maybe some of them had sex robots or abused children or whatever. maybe it wasn't unheard of for them to have affairs with high profile people like the catholic church used to, but we don't get any of that. but it does make anakin seem more human for actually, like, being normal. luke's celibacy is also kinda interesting to think about. i guess.
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Feb 3, 2018 08:17
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Is that in the new cannon, or are you inferring?
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Feb 3, 2018 08:35
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No one ever said Jedi couldn't gently caress. Obi Wan almost certainly does Sand People and Twileks on the regular.
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Feb 3, 2018 10:28
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George Lucas says Jedi are allowed to have sex, they just aren't allowed to form attachments: George Lucas posted:"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1989505.stm There's nothing wrong with having a healthy sexual relationship with someone, just like there's nothing wrong with Obi-Wan being friends with someone like Dex. But as a Jedi you can't participate in a sacrament that quite explicitly attaches you to someone for life and obligates you to place their well-being over that of others. Obviously this isn't outlined in depth in the movies because they're supposed to be for children, and I think most intelligent people who watch the movies in good faith understand what the "no marriage" plot-line is actually supposed to be getting at thematically. But obviously this forum isn't about watching movies in good faith so feel free to proceed with the discussions of secret Jedi child-loving or whatever. porfiria posted:Windu would have ordered the annihilation of the Jedi Order? The Jedi would have taken control of the Senate and forcibly removed any representatives deemed to have been corrupted by Sidious. This would have led to massive social unrest and a likely civil war, obligating the Jedi to remain in their positions as dictators until such time as the crisis abated--which would probably be never. The only way to prevent the Republic from collapsing would be for them to continually accrue more and more power to themselves. The only options for them would be to either become what they hate or to disengage and risk losing everything they fear to. The point is, you can't create a healthy democratic culture upon a foundation of coups and dictators. You can't save a democracy by betraying it. That's the "dark place" Yoda is referring to when Mace suggests deposing Palpatine and seizing control of the government. Wheat Loaf posted:Yoda probably assumed Anakin was talking about Obi-Wan. He can't give Anakin better advice because he doesn't know Anakin is talking about Padme because Anakin can't tell him that he's married because it's against the Jedi rules. I say this a lot, but people are focusing on mechanistic plot details that don't matter and missing the underlying thematic purpose of the scene. The scene isn't about what Yoda does or doesn't know, or about Anakin not being able to come clean about who he's talking about. The scene is about Anakin saying, "I'm obsessing about death", Yoda responding, "The only way through is to learn to let go", and Anakin realizing he just can't do that. There's absolutely nothing Yoda could have said that would have changed Anakin's mind. It wouldn't matter if Yoda knew it was about Padme (in my opinion, he probably does anyway). It wouldn't matter if Yoda phrased his advice in different terms. It wouldn't matter if Yoda gave Anakin different advice. Anakin came to Yoda looking for the power to stop people from dying. Nothing less than that would do. But Yoda can't offer that to him. Only one person can. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 3, 2018 15:41
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Cnut the Great posted:But Yoda can't offer that to him. Only one person can. Qui-Gon as it turns out.
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Feb 3, 2018 17:33
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sassassin posted:Qui-Gon as it turns out. He has a special set of skills.
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Feb 3, 2018 17:56
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But who does Yoda gently caress?
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Feb 4, 2018 00:25
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YaddleAngry Salami posted:There's probably something we can make of the constant use of 'canon' in describing Disney's materials, and what it means that the 'Cathar' are not considered part of that, having been redefined as heretical 'legends'. I appreciate this post.
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Feb 4, 2018 00:25
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TildeATH posted:He has a special set of skills. Who was it that described him as looking and sounding like the weed dealer for the rest of the Jedi? I thought that was funny.
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Feb 4, 2018 00:33
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Is TLJ the first SW film to feature: -Direct reference to the Roman alphabet? (Poe says ‘H’ for Hux) -Flashbacks ?
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Feb 4, 2018 01:37
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It definitely is the first it have formal flashbacks
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Feb 4, 2018 01:39
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I said it before but also food that isn’t like rations or blue milk
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Feb 4, 2018 01:39
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A new hope had Roman letters also.
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Feb 4, 2018 01:40
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Shaocaholica posted:Is TLJ the first SW film to feature: ANH had English text printed on the tractor beam control, pre-special-edition. TFA sorta had a flashback when Rey touches Luke's saber.
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Feb 4, 2018 01:41
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