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Nude posted:It seems like Godot wants to be a serious contender for both 2D and 3D game development. With C# (7!) support does anyone know how it compares to Unity? Right now I see it as something that's growing and to keep an eye out for. Would love to hear anyone else's thoughts. my thoughts mirror yours; i've been waiting for 3.0 to really check it out. based on the 20 minutes i've spent with it, the editor seemed a bit less fleshed out and it seems like you'll spend more time in code. having the source without dumping loads of money into it seems nice.
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Jan 31, 2018 13:08
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I've got this idea for a system-building game like Factorio, where instead of building factories and assembly lines, the player has to organise large groups of dumb, predictable labourers. The idea is that the player will have to make systems where different divisions of labour play off each other to achieve various goals, resulting in huge, Rube Goldbergian bureaucracies. Would Unity be a good fit for a game like that? I've heard some things about Unity not being capable of consistent floating-point maths, and that being important for a complex simulation game like I have in mind. But I don't know for sure. Any thoughts?
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Jan 31, 2018 14:00
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sweet. 2.x worked pretty well, hopefully 3 just makes it better
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Jan 31, 2018 14:09
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Boron_the_Moron posted:I've got this idea for a system-building game like Factorio, where instead of building factories and assembly lines, the player has to organise large groups of dumb, predictable labourers. The idea is that the player will have to make systems where different divisions of labour play off each other to achieve various goals, resulting in huge, Rube Goldbergian bureaucracies. Unity’s current implementation of .net can be weird at the edges, but it handles floats just fine..?
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Jan 31, 2018 14:11
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Boron_the_Moron posted:I've got this idea for a system-building game like Factorio, where instead of building factories and assembly lines, the player has to organise large groups of dumb, predictable labourers. The idea is that the player will have to make systems where different divisions of labour play off each other to achieve various goals, resulting in huge, Rube Goldbergian bureaucracies. I don't think Unity has any problem with calculating floats. That said, if you are talking about Unity's coordinate system you would be somewhat correct. The short version is Unity gives you 7 digits of accuracy when you have something in game world. So something that's 700000.01, 0, 0 will be in the same spot as 700000.02, 0, 0. It will still calculate those floats correctly but game wise they will be placed in the same spot. This article goes into greater detail about the limitations of the game coordinate system. For your game I think Unity could handle it just fine. It really depends on how big you want to make this and how much you want to zoom in/out. Kerbal Space Program (which simulates the solar system) was made in Unity for reference. Although admittedly they did use various tricks to get what they wanted.
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Jan 31, 2018 15:00
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The concerns with floats has nothing to do with Unity, it's a fundamental limitation of the processors we use. I think you're putting the cart before the horse, just because there is a limit to floating point precision doesn't mean a Factorio clone in Unity is going to melt down.. you're gonna have to push the envelope pretty hard before you run into issues. If it still worries you, just do everything with integers and never ever divide or use percentages. 
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Jan 31, 2018 15:08
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roomforthetuna posted:Is it going to ruin everything if I try to transition my existing project? You can "export to Godot 3" from a 2.14 project, it doesn't do very much automatically but it does create the project file. Some of your global settings will be forgotten and have to be replaced (plugins are deactivated for example). x.get_global_pos() and x.set_global_pos() must be replaced with x.global_position x.get_pos() and x.set_pos() must be replaced with x.position x.rotation_deg must be replaced with x.rotation_degrees (which breaks most of my AnimationPlayer links, easiest fixed with opening the tscn files in a text editor and search and replacing things) residual_motion = move(v) is replaced with collision = move_and_collide(v) and collision.residual, and all the transient collision_normal() functions are now values on that collision object, which is much better but requires a manual translation. ReferenceFrame nodes will prevent your scenes from loading, and must be replaced with ReferenceRect animation.set_speed(n) must be replaced with animation.set_animation_speed(n)
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Jan 31, 2018 16:21
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Boron_the_Moron posted:Would Unity be a good fit for a game like that? I've heard some things about Unity not being capable of consistent floating-point maths, and that being important for a complex simulation game like I have in mind. But I don't know for sure. Any thoughts? Floating point math is inaccurate always, if you want perfect accuracy use fixed point math instead.
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Jan 31, 2018 19:13
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Consistent is not the same as accurate; if you want to keep two complex simulations in sync over a network or replay the same simulation on more than one platform the consistency is going to be important even if you're correctly managing the accuracy.
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Jan 31, 2018 20:30
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Aww, the grid map node is buggy in Godot 3.0 
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Feb 1, 2018 04:26
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xzzy posted:The concerns with floats has nothing to do with Unity, it's a fundamental limitation of the processors we use. I’m unaware of any FPU bugs in any modern processor you’d need to worry about. There was notably a bug in the original Pentium, but later intel processors do not have that issue. Concerns on floats over variable precision or non-canonical but valid representations are an issue with the specification, not the processor. A ‘better’ processor won’t redefine what floats /are/.
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Feb 1, 2018 05:10
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Any hints as to what's happened to the ability to inspect the state of the world while paused has gone in Godot 3? I can see local variables and stuff, but I can't find the scene hierarchy anywhere now. Also in upgrade fun, my "move the camera to encompass focal objects" code no longer works as before, it seems to work only on one axis now, and my character's legs have become reversed but the head has not even though they're moved and animated from within the same hierarchy. Edit: Turns out the reason for that is, as well as rotation_deg being renamed to rotation_degrees, the direction of rotation has been reversed, so I had to flip all negative numbers to positive and vice-versa in the animation to get it back to the expected behavior. The head was immune because it doesn't animate by rotation. The feet were upside-down too, but that wasn't noticeable at the scale. roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Feb 1, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2018 06:33
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roomforthetuna posted:Edit: Turns out the reason for that is, as well as rotation_deg being renamed to rotation_degrees Have all these name changes been deprecated for awhile or do they not believe in that or some other reason they couldn't? Heard about a lot of these so far and it seems kinda weird to just pull the rug out from under people like this.
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Feb 1, 2018 15:33
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Obsurveyor posted:Have all these name changes been deprecated for awhile or do they not believe in that or some other reason they couldn't? Heard about a lot of these so far and it seems kinda weird to just pull the rug out from under people like this. Unfortunately, a major unintended consequence of this is that thousands of webpages of Q&A that they don't control now have outdated advice that won't work, which is a pretty horrifying prospect. Documentation that you still find when you google for it but is now actively unhelpful is a fine way to make a language unappealing.
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Feb 1, 2018 15:42
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I spent a few hours messing with godot for the first time and reading up on stuff yesterday since I was excited to be able to use c# with it. Unfortunately it seems the documentation is not quite there yet for the API and I was having trouble understanding how to get a simple tween to work. I understand what node paths are but I could not get them to work in the context of the tween, I was fairly certain I was translating all gdscript examples properly too, I saw no errors in the debugger when trying to run my project and I wasn't really sure how to debug further. I really like the way the design philosophy is implemented though, and I look forward to playing around with it some more later, I hope all the mono stuff gets a proper write up, I guess that will take time.
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Feb 1, 2018 17:01
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I think I have an irrational obsession with pulling code out of Unity MonoBehaviour Update() calls so I can possibly just make them ScriptableObjects or something more primitive. I just replaced my damage indicator scrolling up for a time with a tween:code:... I guess next is the code in Update() that makes it flash. I guess that can be a shader! (actually I think in that case I really should probably be using a shader...)
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Feb 2, 2018 07:50
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josh04 posted:Consistent is not the same as accurate; if you want to keep two complex simulations in sync over a network or replay the same simulation on more than one platform the consistency is going to be important even if you're correctly managing the accuracy. Yeah, this was what I meant by consistency. I don't actually have any desire to make my game networked right now, but I couldn't help looking to the future. I was also wondering if there were any other areas where a lack of simulation consistency could be a problem, that I might not have thought of.
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Feb 2, 2018 13:20
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Boron_the_Moron posted:Yeah, this was what I meant by consistency. I don't actually have any desire to make my game networked right now, but I couldn't help looking to the future. I was also wondering if there were any other areas where a lack of simulation consistency could be a problem, that I might not have thought of. How much is the simulation managing? If you're just planning to use Unity as just a rendering engine to reflect the simulation, then I wouldn't worry so much. I guess you'd just want to make sure the simulation logic isn't goofing up in Mono. The one obvious thing to look after when using base floating-point types is performing math on a huge number with a smaller number repeatedly. You probably know this already, but just to be thorough: code:code:
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Feb 2, 2018 19:19
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Going to fixed point is good for both consistency and sometimes network (depending on serialization, can save many bytes per number). Figure out how many decimals you actually need first. I'd be surprised if it was more than three. Caliber uses two (positionally, 1% of a pixel). If with fixed point you're still exceeding your upper bound too, you need to reconsider how your game scales itself. Even in Unity units, three decimals is millimeter accuracy. You have to be doing something like KSP where you're more than seven digits worth of units away from the scene origin to see issues, but then they just pulled a Futurama and made the universe move around the ship instead. If everything rounds consistently, floating point errors are no issue. Hell, Javascript's notorious ...00004s is why I do this in the first place.
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Feb 2, 2018 19:20
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Speaking of C#, I've been meaning to mess around with Xenko... anybody try it out already?
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Feb 3, 2018 05:36
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Does anybody know if TextMeshPro has some ability for me to supply a shader? It seems counterproductive to what it's trying to do so I don't think I can. I was hoping to get rid of some logic in a MonoBehaviour that to flicker some text by changing the color of the text on small, regular intervals.
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Feb 3, 2018 18:52
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Does anybody know if TextMeshPro has some ability for me to supply a shader? It seems counterproductive to what it's trying to do so I don't think I can. I was hoping to get rid of some logic in a MonoBehaviour that to flicker some text by changing the color of the text on small, regular intervals. Yes, there’s a demo for it somewhere in the demo scenes. They stencil out waves or something iirc.
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Feb 4, 2018 15:01
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code:this is an attempt to more or less have my cake and eat it too. an effect is a SO class meant to map a list of targets to whatever function and yet still being able to pass parameters (as part of a larger Interaction SO that has Targets mapped to Effects). my preference would be to just have a way to say "insert literally anything at all as long as the first parameters is a target list and you give data for the rest", but even then im not sure itd really help my goal of being able to write some effect like ChangeColor in lieu of ChangeToRed, ChangeToBlue, ChangeToGreen, etc. e: Further elaboration: this is more or less a way to quickly script new abilities for characters and such in a turn based game via giving an SO a list of targets and having it call functions / fire events / return commands (I haven't figured out a best fit at all, yet). It works but its just too inflexible for me to be happy with it, since effects can only be given a list of targets and not any additional data. The above thing lets me stash some data with the Effect via loading up some parameters with data, so that at least allows reuse of functions and more flexability from where effects can draw from, but it still doesn't solve the basic issue of saying like, "I'd like this effect to apply a modifier, which is specified via the user / interaction", which would permit me to have more generic style Effects. I might just be looking at this whole thing the wrong way: the obvious idea I've been chasing after is allowing more flexibility in the parameter signatures for Effect's EffectFunction delegate and then using reflection or something to communicate to the Interaction about what the effect needs, then communicating that to whatever is wanting to invoke the Interaction, but maybe that's just not possible due to it being kind of inherently not type safe to do? I tried making Effects themselves a generic type but Unity didn't like that and it probably wasn't a good idea anyways. Its probably just going to end up not nearly as simple as I was hoping. e2: followup: I have learned about Delegate.DynamicInvoke and ahahahaha I am going to create a loving frankenstein monster. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 4, 2018 19:13
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leper khan posted:Yes, there’s a demo for it somewhere in the demo scenes. They stencil out waves or something iirc. There's a 50/50 chance I missed it or the demo you're talking about didn't actually use a custom shader. I looked at demo scene #23 ("Animating Vertex Attributes") in a video while folding laundry and he did all the effects in MonoBehaviours. That one had the wave in it. I also looked at demo scene #24 ("Surface Shader Example") and it's just going over the different SDF materials. I didn't see anything to sneak in my own shader.
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Feb 5, 2018 07:54
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:There's a 50/50 chance I missed it or the demo you're talking about didn't actually use a custom shader. I looked at demo scene #23 ("Animating Vertex Attributes") in a video while folding laundry and he did all the effects in MonoBehaviours. That one had the wave in it. I also looked at demo scene #24 ("Surface Shader Example") and it's just going over the different SDF materials. I didn't see anything to sneak in my own shader. If you want to do something very custom, you can use a render texture as the face texture or duplicate one of the existing shaders. I’d probably recommend the former. Just do whatever weird nonsense you want, shove it in a render texture, and drop that on the face or outline or wherever you want it.
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Feb 5, 2018 13:45
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leper khan posted:If you want to do something very custom, you can use a render texture as the face texture or duplicate one of the existing shaders. A render texture doesn't need a camera at all? It sounds like it's becoming overkill for just trying to make some damage indicators flash without polling on some timings in an Update() call.
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Feb 5, 2018 16:38
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In a sort of belated New Years resolution, I'm gonna finally start buckling down on game dev. I've flirted with it a bit, and made some (bad) games as a teenager. My goal for now is to just start cranking out a ton of dumb tech demos in GameMaker and see if one of them sticks. I realize Unity and UE4 are both things, but it's way easier for me to make my own assets for a 2D game
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Feb 5, 2018 16:42
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deadly_pudding posted:In a sort of belated New Years resolution, I'm gonna finally start buckling down on game dev. I've flirted with it a bit, and made some (bad) games as a teenager. My goal for now is to just start cranking out a ton of dumb tech demos in GameMaker and see if one of them sticks. I realize Unity and UE4 are both things, but it's way easier for me to make my own assets for a 2D game Awesome, check out the awful jams dischord, lots of friendly helpful game makers there.
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Feb 5, 2018 16:52
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:A render texture doesn't need a camera at all? Why don't you use a coroutine? Isn't that what they're for?
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Feb 5, 2018 18:48
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Tiler Kiwi posted:e2: followup: I have learned about Delegate.DynamicInvoke and ahahahaha I am going to create a loving frankenstein monster. Dynamic invocation of effect tags is something I suggested to you earlier in this thread, wasn't it? Just don't forget to have a whitelist corresponding to functions that actually exist, or some other kind of fallback, then you can tag things before you even have a function for it. Remember: Frankenstein is the monster.
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Feb 5, 2018 19:24
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KillHour posted:Why don't you use a coroutine? Isn't that what they're for? My real goal was to try to just make the material for the text just be flashing epilepsy wonder. It seemed like having some text flash would be a shader thing. This isn't really blocking me from doing other stuff; the greater bulk of my stupidity is simultaneously getting me stuck in completely different areas. I was just trying to do this as "right" as possible. I'm generally just trying to not have a MonoBehaviour ticking on Update() for something like this. In this case, I believe Update()'s still running even if I have the good stuff in a coroutine. This is a certain amount of pig-headedness but it's helping me get into things like making subsystems, using ScriptableObjects, and writing shaders for visual effects.
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Feb 5, 2018 19:58
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deadly_pudding posted:In a sort of belated New Years resolution, I'm gonna finally start buckling down on game dev. I've flirted with it a bit, and made some (bad) games as a teenager. My goal for now is to just start cranking out a ton of dumb tech demos in GameMaker and see if one of them sticks. I realize Unity and UE4 are both things, but it's way easier for me to make my own assets for a 2D game Cool. Also maybe check out Godot, which can do both 2D and 3D, and lets you write your game logic visually, in a friendly scripting language, or in C++ or C# if you prefer. And it’s free, unlike GameMaker.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:01
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:My real goal was to try to just make the material for the text just be flashing epilepsy wonder. It seemed like having some text flash would be a shader thing. Update will tick every frame unless the behaviour does not have an Update function. Update functions are not a prerequisite to run a coroutine. Something will need to at minimum update a timer in the shader (unless you have access to an RNG in the shader I guess?). That will be triggered /somewhere/.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:04
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leper khan posted:Something will need to at minimum update a timer in the shader (unless you have access to an RNG in the shader I guess?). That will be triggered /somewhere/. I'm not so much fixated on not having an Update() as much as I am being able to completely chicken out of having a MonoBehaviour at all. I also am conceding this is kind of unreasonable, but I learn new things every once in awhile when I shoot myself in the foot like this on purpose. So I'm trying to go for it.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:07
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Disclaimer: I kind of stopped nibbling on the shader when I couldn't figure out how I might even plug it into the text. That being said, I found a _Time property with X-Z components that give the a floating-point time in various scalings. It did compile the shader so I assume I did that much correct. Don't you need a monobehaviour to trigger the health bar to go down when you take damage anyways? Just start the coroutine there.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:40
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KillHour posted:Don't you need a monobehaviour to trigger the health bar to go down when you take damage anyways? Just start the coroutine there. <whiney voice>  But I wanted to use a shader!!! </whiney voice>
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Feb 6, 2018 05:21
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:<whiney voice> Kill your darlings 
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Feb 6, 2018 08:12
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Can I do this in my shader, and set this entire uniform array with one call to glUniformXX()? I can't figure out how to do it.code:baby puzzle fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Feb 6, 2018 |
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Feb 6, 2018 17:30
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:<whiney voice> I mean you could but the monobehaviour would still need to call the shader, probably by changing a variable on it and then changing it back when it's done. Which... would require a coroutine.
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Feb 6, 2018 18:37
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KillHour posted:I mean you could but the monobehaviour would still need to call the shader, probably by changing a variable on it and then changing it back when it's done. Which... would require a coroutine. Isn't there a _Time property I can use for that? Maybe I'll try that on some random mesh tonight just to see if I can make it work at all before even looking into trying to cram it into TextMesh Pro's thing.
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Feb 7, 2018 01:07
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