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Warthur posted:And more particularly, what about saying that they are a garbage designer? And not using your outside voice to say every conclusion you come to is manners.
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Feb 5, 2018 18:14
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Under all circumstances? Say the designer in question's running a Kickstarter and you've had enough experience of their products and behaviour to come to the conclusion that they are not trustworthy. Are you really doing anyone a favour by soft-pedalling your objections by avoiding the phrase "Designer X is untrustworthy"?
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Feb 5, 2018 18:36
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I think rpg.net's heart is in the right place with regards to its policies on personal attacks, but you can really see the limits of their approach in that giant list of rule explanations/modifications posted a few months ago that had to laboriously explain over the course of twelve paragraphs that it was okay to state that someone had done something bad if they actually, factually did it. Frankly I would be happier with more loosely-stated rules that were enforced by moderators with greater room for discretion, so that months of grinding passive aggression didn't seem like a Sirlin-approved dominant strategy for those truly posting to win (but also so that I could tell someone they were being disingenuous without immediately hearing the staccato sound of a dozen panic buttons being jammed under bystanders' desks)
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Feb 5, 2018 19:36
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Warthur posted:Under all circumstances? Say the designer in question's running a Kickstarter and you've had enough experience of their products and behaviour to come to the conclusion that they are not trustworthy. Are you really doing anyone a favour by soft-pedalling your objections by avoiding the phrase "Designer X is untrustworthy"? It's certainly possible: "Alice Anderson previously wrote Swordfinder 2, Dungeon Goblins, and Magick & Mayhem, all of which were garbage games (here are some links explaining why). Based on this track record, I would advise against backing Alice's new kickstarter for Swordfinder 4.13." I feel like it gets a little bit weasely to have to put down every little bit of it without being able to actually state the obvious conclusion. But on the other hand, assuming you have time to break down the argument, it does help make your point stronger.
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Feb 6, 2018 02:21
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It seems like the difference between "Alice Anderson is a bad designer" and "Alice Anderson only designs bad games" is trivial and doesn't warrant the disproportionate emphasis they put on preventing people from "badmouthing" a niche celebrity. Who may be on the board, which is probably a big deal in niche hobby like this.
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Feb 6, 2018 03:19
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Rand Brittain posted:This kind of thing is why I don't take TG's pretense of being interested in social justice issues very seriously. I used to think you were just kind of snitty but usually polite, but now I know you're a piece of poo poo.
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Feb 6, 2018 05:16
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I'm not even all rah-rah about social justice issues, either
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Feb 6, 2018 05:17
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Am I a bad person for finding that I suddenly want Swordfinder 4.13?
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Feb 6, 2018 08:52
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Mr.Misfit posted:Am I a bad person for finding that I suddenly want Swordfinder 4.13? your sword's in your closet behind the lovely christmas present you got that one year.
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Feb 6, 2018 10:54
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inklesspen posted:It's certainly possible: "Alice Anderson previously wrote Swordfinder 2, Dungeon Goblins, and Magick & Mayhem, all of which were garbage games (here are some links explaining why). Based on this track record, I would advise against backing Alice's new kickstarter for Swordfinder 4.13." And it avoids getting into the dance of "So, basically what you are saying is that Alice Anderson is a garbage designer?" "Oh, well you can reach that conclusion from my post but I would certainly never directly say as much..."
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Feb 6, 2018 13:08
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Rand Brittain posted:If you read the whole infraction, it pretty explicitly says that the main reason for the infraction is the personal attack that you didn't quote. Yeah, that's exactly what makes the added "oh and also you hurt the poor people who mention FATAL" thing so stupid.
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Feb 6, 2018 15:28
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Warthur posted:The weaselness is exactly what I find objectionable. And whilst in terms of pure logic setting down your evidence is sensible, in terms of convincing rhetoric putting down your evidence and then clearly stating your conclusion is preferable. This exactly. Saying somebody is a bad designer is being dumb is not a personal attack - it may be impolite, but it's not the same thing as calling them 'loving mouthbreathing imbeciles' or something of that ilk. The key shouldn't lie with being unable to express certain views, it should lie with not entering a two-minutes hate period when you start throwing shade at someone or something. 'White Wolf is a bad company' is one thing, 'White Wolf is a gang of rapists and bastards and I hope they all die in a fire' is a different one entirely.
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Feb 6, 2018 16:40
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Sooooo Kingdom Death, how's that going? Still creepy and filled with dicks?
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Feb 6, 2018 16:48
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Nuns with Guns posted:Still creepy and filled with dicks? But enough about Mandy Morbid (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 6, 2018 19:04
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Nuns with Guns posted:Sooooo Kingdom Death, how's that going? Still creepy and filled with dicks? zak s and matt mcfarland are working on a beast expansion to kingdom death with extra anus huffing and gms is preparing a KD transmedia empire.
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Feb 6, 2018 19:08
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All right enough now.
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Feb 6, 2018 19:11
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thelazyblank posted:zak s and matt mcfarland are working on a beast expansion to kingdom death with extra anus huffing and gms is preparing a KD transmedia empire. Another finger on the monkey paw closes.
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Feb 6, 2018 19:32
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Simian_Prime posted:But enough about Mandy Morbid I'm glad she's doing so great after breaking up with Zak, and I sincerely wish her well. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Feb 6, 2018 |
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Feb 6, 2018 19:48
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Nuns with Guns posted:I'm glad she's doing so great after breaking up with Zak, and I sincerely wish her well. I did not realize that, but  Hopefully she’s also dropped her ex’s toxic habits of harassing people (and isn’t herself being targeted for harassment). Simian_Prime fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Feb 6, 2018 |
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Feb 6, 2018 20:42
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Is that a real thing that happened? Also I thought Zak's girlfriend was horribly, terminally ill?
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Feb 6, 2018 21:09
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Rand Brittain posted:Is that a real thing that happened? If you care to know, Mandy has Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. It's not a terminal illness (unless it's affecting her blood vessels) but it's still something that impacts her day-to-day life. This is publicly available knowledge. His Wikipedia entry also describes his relationship to Mandy in the past tense. Source: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9bnmy7/zak-loves-mandy-0003000-v19n10 Nuns with Guns posted:I'm glad she's doing so great after breaking up with Zak, and I sincerely wish her well.
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Feb 6, 2018 21:50
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Seems this Zak guy is really nice for staying with his girlfriend during her tribulations.
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Feb 6, 2018 21:57
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LOW BLOOD PRESSURE
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Feb 6, 2018 22:02
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So how about that Green Ronin timeline, huh?
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Feb 7, 2018 19:01
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Darwinism posted:So how about that Green Ronin timeline, huh? "...and that's why you shouldn't hold us responsible for all the things we did."
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Feb 7, 2018 19:05
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Darwinism posted:So how about that Green Ronin timeline, huh?
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Feb 7, 2018 19:36
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dwarf74 posted:Is this an "it was released and it's really something" or a "hey what about that thing that doesn't exist yet?"
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Feb 7, 2018 19:39
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FMguru posted:What does your heart tell you, dwarf74? That the timeline was a placation and a weapon for their fans to use against their detractors and it only holds that power so long as they never release it?
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Feb 7, 2018 19:50
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Kurieg posted:That the timeline was a placation and a weapon for their fans to use against their detractors and it only holds that power so long as they never release it?
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Feb 7, 2018 19:51
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dwarf74 posted:Is this an "it was released and it's really something" or a "hey what about that thing that doesn't exist yet?" But enough about Far West.
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Feb 7, 2018 20:10
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What happened with GR now?
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Feb 7, 2018 21:23
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Sion posted:What happened with GR now? FMguru fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 21:33
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FMguru posted:One of their main writers was revealed to be a creeplord with a loooooong history, and GRR seems to have kept him around (including putting him in charge of their touted program to mentor up-and-coming female writers) despite being made aware of this history a long time ago. When GR was called to account for this, they launched personal attacks on their accusers, said they were the victims of an organized smear campaign, and promised that they'd release a timeline "soon" that would clear up everything and show they made the appropriate decisions at every juncture. It's been three months and counting since then - that must be some timeline they're putting together! GRR initially used those two situations as cover, pretending that they'd mistaken new allegations for references to the prior ones. But it became clear this was a smoke-screen as more information came out, and that GRR as a company and the specific individuals involved had been informed of separate, new allegations several months prior to things coming to a head. They were also caught out in lying about Suleiman's role with the mentorship program (that part still isn't entirely clear, but either he was in charge and they straight up lied about it, or he was in charge but they created an administrative fiction that he wasn't). They did finally fire Suleiman after the Horror Writers Association booted him and banned him from their convention for the same behavior. Everything became public, at which point Suleiman gave an intensely slimy non-apology and GRR went radio silent after having shot their feet clean off on social media in the preceding few days. That's when they promised the oft-lamented timeline.
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Feb 7, 2018 21:46
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This all happened in November, btw.
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Feb 7, 2018 21:55
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Wowiezowie.
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Feb 7, 2018 23:19
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His "apology" is my absolute favorite stupid thing, as it is mostly about how sorry he is for being so loving sexy.
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Feb 7, 2018 23:22
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Look, it's hard to go through life when your gaze is just that intense.
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Feb 7, 2018 23:28
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:His "apology" is my absolute favorite stupid thing, as it is mostly about how sorry he is for being so loving sexy. Don't forget that he's currently the only support network for his 3 sisters and mother. And they're Women, Therefore if you shun him you hurt those Women. So don't hurt the Women.
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Feb 7, 2018 23:30
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unseenlibrarian posted:Look, it's hard to go through life when your gaze is just that intense. Indeed. It was like he was granted a Zeus-like potency that mandated him to creep up on anything with a pulse and the real crime would have been resisting.
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Feb 7, 2018 23:57
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FMguru posted:that must be some timeline they're putting together! The timeline itself is in real time
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Feb 7, 2018 23:57
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