|
Splicer posted:Pfft, next you'll tell me jet fuel can melt steel beams. Doesn't necessarily have to melt, just heat to the point in will yield (Bend).
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 09:33 |
|
|
wesleywillis posted:Doesn't necessarily have to melt, just heat to the point in will yield (Bend). This is what I've always thought about that guff, since I had to put so much effort into fire-protecting the steel beams in my house, and the most that'll be burning then is some joists and a box of star wars books.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 23:01
|
|
|
It’s been pointed out many times that this is exactly what happened. It can be done in simulation. Steel beams don’t have to “melt” to bend more easily, but conspiracy nuts are a) not engineers, b) not rigorous scientists, and c) stupid fucks who don’t understand logic or basic math. Hell, you can demonstrate it with plastic, easily.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 23:55
|
|
|
It's more that people in general will, once they've made a decision, refuse to listen to stances opposed to that decision. Indeed sometimes they'll become even more convinced that they're right when people argue against them. It's called the Backfire Effect.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 23:59
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:It's more that people in general will, once they've made a decision, refuse to listen to stances opposed to that decision. Indeed sometimes they'll become even more convinced that they're right when people argue against them. It's called the Backfire Effect. This effect turns out to be bullshit, bad social science. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2819073
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 00:03
|
|
|
Phanatic posted:This effect turns out to be bullshit, bad social science. your evidence just makes me more certain that it's true!
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 00:24
|
|
|
People who believe in conspiracy theories, as a general rule, do not arrive at those beliefs through logic and reason, so you cannot reason them out of them. People who believe in a conspiracy theory are also more likely to believe in other conspiracies, even when those are directly contradictory.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 02:08
|
|
|
Ashcans posted:People who believe in conspiracy theories, as a general rule, do not arrive at those beliefs through logic and reason, so you cannot reason them out of them. People who believe in a conspiracy theory are also more likely to believe in other conspiracies, even when those are directly contradictory. Rational argument and ridiculing are the only demonstrably effective methods in changing a conspiracist's beliefs. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01525/full Pubmed link (same paper) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5061726/
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 02:21
|
|
|
Phanatic posted:This effect turns out to be bullshit, bad social science. Interesting! That article dates to August 2016, which may explain why material talking about how the Backfire Effect is super-real, and discussing its brother, confirmation bias, is by far the most common thing when you search for Backfire Effect. The top result for me searching for "is the backfire effect real" is this article saying it might not be, but every other result on Google's first page takes it as fact. This New Yorker article collects a number of older studies that seem to be pretty unambiguous -- not that the New Yorker, scholarly bastion that it is, provides any confidence intervals or other statistics. That still seems to be pretty representative of the material out there right now on the effect. What's the disconnect between this stuff and the paper you linked?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 02:32
|
|
|
People who believe in conspiracy theories are getting off on being the select few who understand a secret that the sheeple don't get. It's exciting to know about something other people don't know: if you've never gotten to be the expert in the room about something, it might be really attractive to become the expert on some bullshit crazy rear end thing that you can then surprise people with. They're supposed to react by being impressed by you... and I bet a lot of the time, people's actual reaction (surprise that you're an idiot, when they didn't realize that before) is misinterpreted as such.Proteus Jones posted:Rational argument and ridiculing are the only demonstrably effective methods in changing a conspiracist's beliefs. That's an interesting study, but I'm not sure they're showing that rational arguments or ridicule actually reduce a person's general susceptibility to believing in conspiracy theories, vs. reducing their belief in the particular theory being challenged. It also is entirely based on Hungarians, so it may be biased by Hungarian education, culture, etc. In the study, they first presented a novel conspiracy theory (albeit one based on lots of existing prejudices and theories, like "jews control the world"). So this particular conspiracy theory was not self-selected by the participants, nor did they have months or years to ponder the theory before being challenged, or to locate and communicate with other real people who also agreed with the conspiracy theory. After being presented with the novel theory, the study forced participants to sit through one of three recordings (or a control) providing the rational and/or ridicule counterarguments. One of the biggest challenges with people who believe in conspiracy theories is getting them to pay attention to counterarguments in the first place; they are likely to self-select sources that confirm their bias and reject sources that challenge it. What we believe is also highly correlated with what our peers believe, and today it is easier than ever to select one's peers primarily on the basis of belief. I'd argue that the study is interesting, but very preliminary and not actually rigorous or comprehensive enough to say that it demonstrates "effective methods."
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 02:48
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:People who believe in conspiracy theories are getting off on being the select few who understand a secret that the sheeple don't get. It's exciting to know about something other people don't know: if you've never gotten to be the expert in the room about something, it might be really attractive to become the expert on some bullshit crazy rear end thing that you can then surprise people with. They're supposed to react by being impressed by you... and I bet a lot of the time, people's actual reaction (surprise that you're an idiot, when they didn't realize that before) is misinterpreted as such. You make a good argument. It would be interesting to see this methodology tested against extant belief, but it would have to be constructed in such a way that the participant isn't aware that what's being measured. Given the overly paranoid nature of a lot of conspiracy theories (they hiding X from you!) this is probably easier said than done. And that's the last of me posting about psych. and conspiracy theories in this, the Crappy Construction thread. Sorry all, for some reason I thought I was in the Pseudo Science thread.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 02:54
|
|
|
There's in general a big replication problem with a lot of social science papers, generally related to researcher degrees of freedom whereby if you mash enough data then some things will appear statistically significant but are completely meaningless. Moreover, papers like that routinely make it through peer review and are accepted by the general community as TRVTH unless and until someone goes and tries to replicate them and realizes that hey, this is just a bunch of p-hacked garbage and the effect never existed in the first place. http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0956797611417632 quote:How Bad Can It Be? A Demonstration of Chronological Rejuvenation Google for the Cornell food lab and Brian Wansink to find plenty more examples of this kind of thing in real life. Example: https://hackernoon.com/introducing-sprite-and-the-case-of-the-carthorse-child-58683c2bfeb https://twitter.com/Research_Tim/status/959726101412175872 Not saying that's what's going on with the backfire effect, or accusing the researchers of any kind of malfeasance. But when someone goes looking to replicate a result and fails so spectacularly, it's plenty of reason to be skeptical no matter how well-entrenched beliefs about the original result are. Proteus Jones posted:And that's the last of me posting about psych. and conspiracy theories in this, the Crappy Construction thread. Sorry all, for some reason I thought I was in the Pseudo Science thread. Edit: poo poo, me too. Whoops. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Feb 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 02:55
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:People who believe in conspiracy theories are getting off on being the select few who understand a secret that the sheeple don't get. It's exciting to know about something other people don't know: if you've never gotten to be the expert in the room about something, it might be really attractive to become the expert on some bullshit crazy rear end thing that you can then surprise people with. They're supposed to react by being impressed by you... and I bet a lot of the time, people's actual reaction (surprise that you're an idiot, when they didn't realize that before) is misinterpreted as such. Sometimes this, but also: Alan Moore posted:The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish Banking Conspiracy, or the Grey Alien Theory. It would be comforting to learn that a pugnacious idiot isn’t the world’s most powerful man.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 03:21
|
|
|
Darchangel posted:It’s been pointed out many times that this is exactly what happened. It can be done in simulation. Steel beams don’t have to “melt” to bend more easily, but conspiracy nuts are a) not engineers, b) not rigorous scientists, and c) stupid fucks who don’t understand logic or basic math. I could never figure out how anyone believed that crap. I mean, the entire craft of blacksmithing is based around the idea that hard metals are easier to work when they're heated to plasticity, which is a hell of a lot easier than getting them melted to cast.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 07:18
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 09:27
|
|
|
I'm putting that one down under "attempted murder".
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 09:30
|
|
|
dazzle camouflage for stairs looking good
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 11:41
|
|
|
Carpet on stairs is always bad, but whooo what a doozy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 16:00
|
|
|
I didn't realize these were stairs until someone else pointed it out. I just thought is was really bad carpeting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 17:20
|
|
|
The lines being just slightly not parallel gives me such a dizzy headache. Seconding "attempted murder".
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 17:51
|
|
|
Phanatic posted:This effect turns out to be bullshit, bad social science. poorly designed and implemented ngh
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 18:32
|
|
|
Bird in a Blender posted:Carpet on stairs is always bad... Please elaborate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 20:06
|
|
|
BattleMaster posted:dazzle camouflage for stairs looking good Oh god I didn't realize those were stairs until I saw your comment.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 20:09
|
|
|
Blue Footed Booby posted:Please elaborate. It’s just my opinion, but it sucks to clean. You’re hauling a vacuum up and down the stairs to clean all those steps, much easier to sweep if you have a hard surface. Stairs also get lots of foot traffic wear and tear, so that carpet will get worn out way faster than the rest of the areas.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 20:28
|
|
|
A lot of residential buildings I work on all get their stairs carpeted, I think they think it's more high-class than leaving them concrete. Quite often it's the cheapest commercial carpeting you can get and wears out and looks like poo poo within 5-10 years.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 20:31
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:A lot of residential buildings I work on all get their stairs carpeted, I think they think it's more high-class than leaving them concrete. Quite often it's the cheapest commercial carpeting you can get and wears out and looks like poo poo within 5-10 years. Carpeting is less susceptible to slipping, when compared to rubber/plastic stairs (like I have at my job), and it's quieter than a solid surface.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 20:33
|
|
|
I get having carpets in your in-home stairs, but the big 100% concrete stairwells serving the whole building probably don't need carpet and can just be reasonably finished concrete?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 20:35
|
|
|
My stairs were made out of cheap wood by the council in the late 1940s. Carpet it is then.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 21:23
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:reasonably finished concrete? Which is cheaper, tidying up whatever mess the builders left or putting down the same (dirt hiding) carpet that's everywhere else?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 21:40
|
|
|
Did your old people also have the thing with the short strip of carpet held on my brass runners with white gloss on bare boards either side of it? The carpet must be this one weird bright red oriental Paisley mashup. I’ve seen it in the UK and Australia so I’m assuming there was some sort of international agreement in the 1950s.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 21:56
|
|
|
learnincurve posted:I’ve seen it in the UK and Australia so I’m assuming there was some sort of international agreement in the 1950s. It's the same interior designers shipped to Australia for their crimes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 22:17
|
|
|
Carpet is just secondary stair insulation.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2018 23:48
|
|
|
The wear patterns on the carpeted stairs at my office are really funny. From above, you see its wayyyyyy darker on the right side when going up, because people are coming in from outside and are tracking in parking lot grime. They have to replace it every 6 months or so because it gets so thrashed with foot traffic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 00:10
|
|
|
word to the wise to any blue collar guys in the Minneapolis region: do not do any construction jobs in Brooklyn Park! They will not pay & you will be wasting your time
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 00:36
|
|
|
A3th3r posted:word to the wise to any blue collar guys in the Minneapolis region: do not do any construction jobs in Brooklyn Park! They will not pay & you will be wasting your time Not that this will affect me, but can you expand on that? Is this just work direct to the city?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 00:42
|
|
|
Bird in a Blender posted:Not that this will affect me, but can you expand on that? Is this just work direct to the city? Oh, I haven't been a painter for a couple years, but I just remember doing a job there for several weeks and then not getting paid for it. So we took the apartment building complex manager to small claims court but that took a long while too, and by the way that is the peak season for painting is the summertime, so there isn't a ton of free time for that kind of court stuff. I think there was some sort of settlement that we found unsatisfactory in the end. That was part of what convinced me to go back to school & then try to get to a factory instead of operating in construction. CAN'T TRUST NOBODY!!!!!!!!!
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 00:58
|
|
|
McMansion Hell compiled some enormous houses that look like bad Photoshops this week. wtf is happening to the columns here    not sure if this one is actually supposed to be some sort of postmodern art project 
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 03:59
|
|
|
I'm son of party hat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 04:07
|
|
|
Zil posted:I'm son of party hat. Sup bro   
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 04:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 09:33 |
|
|
Every time she posts I wind up looking at Zillow listings in my hometown and I found this today:    It's not absolute insanity like the stuff she finds but something about the way everything is arranged gives me the ughs. It looks like someone was loving around with a preset home in a design program and it somehow accidentally got built.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 07:47
|
|
