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What's the thread's opinion of John Dies at the End? I just finished reading it. It goes a little too absurdist over-the-top in places, but I found it irreverently enjoyable at large. How about the second one? How does it compare?
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Jan 25, 2018 18:56
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Blasphemeral posted:What's the thread's opinion of John Dies at the End? I love JDATE. The second book is just as weird, though in different ways. I haven't gotten to the third yet, but I've heard it's also quite good. All that said, you'd probably get more thoughts on it over in the Cosmic Horror thread.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:14
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biracial bear for uncut posted:I've read the Craft Sequence up until the last book (though I think another one is coming out soon), but the sequel books just haven't gotten as good as the first one yet, to me. The most recent one goes back to the original series and cast, and is easily the best since the first. The only one I really didn't like much was the one on the Hawaii-equivalent island.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:14
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I think Four Roads Cross is the best in the series - it's a prequel that tells a compelling story about how the characters got to the point they're at later in the series. Plus it has Kopil riding a zombie dragon he uses as a personal battleship  The new book, The Ruin of Angels, is also really good and the city of Agdel Lex is a kickin' rad setting.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:26
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Captain_Person posted:I think Four Roads Cross is the best in the series - it's a prequel that tells a compelling story about how the characters got to the point they're at later in the series. Plus it has Kopil riding a zombie dragon he uses as a personal battleship You're thinking of Last First Snow. Four Roads Cross is the second one about Tara in Alt Coulumb.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:56
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Blasphemeral posted:What's the thread's opinion of John Dies at the End? John Dies At The End is pretty much the peak of the series. This Book Is Full of Spiders, Seriously Dude, Don't Touch It! was funny in some places, but pretty much anything involving Amy gets on my nerves. What The Hell Did I Just Read is pretty much the second book all over again and I'm not sure why I bothered with it.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:43
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Khizan posted:You're thinking of Last First Snow.  In other news, I binged the Rivers of London books at the start of the year and they were a delight. The comics were a bit disappointing though.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:33
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Ornamented Death posted:I love JDATE. Every single time I need to remind myself that JDATE isn't a Jewish dating website.
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Jan 27, 2018 09:23
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Beachcomber posted:Every single time I need to remind myself that JDATE isn't a Jewish dating website. You only remember it as a Jewish dating website, while the rest of the world remembers it as a novel. In fact, as recently as last week, it WAS a Jewish dating website. But not anymore.
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Jan 27, 2018 14:20
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StonecutterJoe posted:You only remember it as a Jewish dating website, while the rest of the world remembers it as a novel. In fact, as recently as last week, it WAS a Jewish dating website. But not anymore. Bearnstein Bears theory mk. II begins itt 
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Jan 27, 2018 22:09
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OptimusWang posted:Bearnstein Bears theory mk. II begins itt Berenstain.
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Jan 27, 2018 23:17
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Captain_Person posted:I think [Last First Snow] is the best in the series - it's a prequel that tells a compelling story about how the characters got to the point they're at later in the series. Plus it has Kopil riding a zombie dragon he uses as a personal battleship I was worried when I first read it, that being a prequel and revisiting events we knew about from Two Serpents Rise that it would be less engaging than the previous books in the series. I should have had more faith in Max. In particular, it expands our understanding of several significant characters that in the later time frame of the earlier books (Dammit, Max) had larger but less personal roles: Temoc, Elayne Keverian, and The King in Red (hell, TKiR is initially a one-line reference in Three Parts Dead)
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Jan 29, 2018 13:27
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I have a Stross question. Case Nightmare Green. I understand that the increase in population and the increase in computing are Bad. I think I remember that part of the problem is the stars are becoming "right". Will the stars eventually be " wrong" again, or is Case Nightmare Green the new normal?
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Feb 4, 2018 09:23
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It's a several decade (or century?) window, I think. I don't know how far through the books you are, so all I'll say is that I can't see the series ending happily.
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Feb 4, 2018 11:40
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Kim Newman has a new sequel out this year: The Haunting of Drearcliff Grange School.
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Feb 4, 2018 12:27
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Beachcomber posted:I have a Stross question. I don't remember any exact quotes, but yes, Case Nightmare Green is temporary. One of the major goals of the Laundry is to have enough defenses setup so that at least some portion of humanity is able to survive until the stars go wrong again and can rebuild.
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Feb 4, 2018 12:57
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Wheat Loaf posted:Kim Newman has a new sequel out this year: The Haunting of Drearcliff Grange School. Secrets is one of my favorite books of his.
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Feb 4, 2018 13:18
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anilEhilated posted:Awesome. I have somewhat mixed feelings about it. I first encountered it as "Kentish Glory" in Mysteries of the Diogenes Club, which was reprinted as the first part of The Secrets of Drearcliff Grange School, but then I didn't really like the second half of the story about the creepy new girl who takes over the school. Not because it was especially bad, mind you, so much as I've just never enjoyed Invasion of the Bodysnatchers plots where everyone but the main character is overtaken by a malign influence. Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to this one, though, because I've long been a fan of that kind of "boarding school of adventure" story. I like the Diogenes universe a lot better than the Anno Dracula one.
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Feb 4, 2018 15:12
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AlphaDog posted:It's a several decade (or century?) window, I think. I don't know how far through the books you are, so all I'll say is that I can't see the series ending happily. hangedman1984 posted:I don't remember any exact quotes, but yes, Case Nightmare Green is temporary. One of the major goals of the Laundry is to have enough defenses setup so that at least some portion of humanity is able to survive until the stars go wrong again and can rebuild. Thanks! I'm midway through Annihilation Score but this has been nagging at me for awhile.
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Feb 5, 2018 02:42
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Beachcomber posted:I have a Stross question. There is a quote out there in the various Wikis for Stross books that the Laundry is trying to pull poo poo together in a way that will allow some part of the UK to survive the 70-or-so years that the conjunction will be in place. But it's one of those things where any single fuckup will mean certain extinction for all of humanity. So, no pressure. The events in The Delirium Brief has me thinking that the primary objective (survival) is met, but things are *really* going to suck for everybody.
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Feb 5, 2018 16:02
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biracial bear for uncut posted:The events in The Delirium Brief has me thinking that the primary objective (survival) is met, but things are *really* going to suck for everybody. Yeah, talk about a deal with the devil.
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Feb 5, 2018 22:32
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I guess everyone but me knew this one was coming? Brief Cases
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Feb 6, 2018 08:18
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Wizchine posted:I guess everyone but me knew this one was coming? The official cover art is new-ish; but yeah, we've known this was coming for a while. If Butcher is to be believed, the Harry/Maggie/Mouse novella in Brief Cases will be the final new Dresden short story.
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Feb 6, 2018 13:15
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Yeah, I'm not buying another book for one short story again. That might be a good deal if you've only bought Side Jobs, but if you've bought the other collections all of those stories showed up in except the last one, then that's not worth it.
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Feb 6, 2018 13:53
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Yeah, I'm not buying another book for one short story again. The bright side here is that this has some of the harder to find stories. AAAA Wizardry was originally printed in an RPG supplement, the Bigfoot stories were in some super limited edition thing (although the digital version is readily available)
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Feb 6, 2018 14:37
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I'm just happy to have some new Dresden. Any new Dresden, really. The first in years.
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Feb 6, 2018 18:09
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I haven't read any of the short stories since Side Jobs so this is great for me.
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Feb 6, 2018 18:10
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ConfusedUs posted:I haven't read any of the short stories since Side Jobs so this is great for me. Same, with the exception of the Bigfoot stories.
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Feb 6, 2018 18:37
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Blasphemeral posted:I'm just happy to have some new Dresden. Any new Dresden, really. The first in years. And you only have to wait four more months to get it. Kinda wish there were more UF stories like Dresden or Alex. A lot of the UF I do find tends to be more PNR than UF, or just straight up male power fantasy stuff.
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Feb 6, 2018 18:45
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Dresden isn't power fantasy?
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Feb 6, 2018 21:34
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anilEhilated posted:Dresden isn't power fantasy? Yes and no. I mean, look at Harry. He's not ugly, but he's not good looking. For most of the book he's somewhat physically average, especially compared to most of the things he fights. For all his magical strength, there's a lot he cannot do, and he's usually humiliated at least once a book. He has meaningful flaws that are part of his character. The people around him end up hurt, but so does he. He suffers and struggles, which makes his conflicts more meaningful, and other people get to share the spotlight. A lot of my favorite moments from the series weren't even Harry's. Now compare Harry to someone like Jack Reacher, Ryan Cawder, Hawk Hunter- you get the idea. People who are powerful and dangerous in a very physical, tangible way. Their flaws are usually bullshit ( "I've got nightmares from all the people I've beaten to death with my enormous penis." ) or something that makes them cool ( missing an eye, scars ). They're people who are usually superlative ( or succeed through luck ) at everything they attempt, especially combat and laying pipe. They typically won't suffer directly, but instead, a stand-in character ( usually female ) will end up under the gun instead. Whatever conflicts there are are usually fairly basic and they're usually solved by manly man manning the gently caress out of whatever's in his way, man. I would also say that there's something to be said for the tone. While Jim can be a bit of a goon sometimes, he's never made me feel uncomfortable. He makes mistakes, but they're ones of ignorance, not aggression. A lot of straight up power fantasy is both aimed at and written by a very particular demo, and it tends to be filled with racist, sexist, often creepy garbage. If Dresden Files was straight power fantasy, it would probably be based around Thomas, only with none of his low moments. About every three chapters there would be a solid four paragraphs given over to jerking off about a particular weapon, probably a gun, and most of the enemies would be capital-O Otherized.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:32
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:....and most of the enemies would be capital-O Otherized. They'd all work for the government, for one. Or maybe Planned Parenthood, Greenpeace or the like.
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Feb 7, 2018 08:08
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Yes and no. what you're talking about is awfully-written power fantasy. dresden is power fantasy with a fig leaf - "he's not ugly but he's not good looking" i think the only two women in the books who don't want to jump his dick are charity carpenter and that widow who joins the witch coven thing "he's physically average" he's like 18 feet tall and he doesnt *need* super strength, he's a wizard (but he has it anyway) "there's a lot he cannot do" there's a lot he can't do the first time he tries it then he uses his super resourcefulness to find a way. etc etc etc. The series has moments when it achieves something better, but at it's core, it's about someone who's flawed just like you or me, but AWESOMELY BADASS WITH FUCKEN WIZARD POWERS!!1 it's power fantasy with a veneer of respectability. Which is fine, I'm not judging and I'll still read the next one assuming he ever writes it, but yeah.
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Feb 7, 2018 10:23
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Surely "nerdy guy who's kind of a goober and is awkward around girls but is also one of the most badass super-powerful wizards ever and all the hot girls want to shag him" is the very essence of a juvenile power fantasy? Dresden Files is Twilight for boys. That doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing in and of itself but it is what it is. 
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Feb 7, 2018 10:44
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Wheat Loaf posted:Surely "nerdy guy who's kind of a goober and is awkward around girls but is also one of the most badass super-powerful wizards ever and all the hot girls want to shag him" is the very essence of a juvenile power fantasy? Eh, that seems overly harsh. Dresden at least makes mistakes sometimes, screws up, and has to deal with the consequences of his own bad actions. The series is a power fantasy but not a pure power fantasy. Dresden has problems that go beyond "which hot girl will I pick" etc., and frequently the plot is driven by his own personal failures. There are other fantasy and SF series that are much, much worse offenders in the "juvenile power fantasy" field. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 13:47
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Dresden's a good story because power comes with actual costs and consequences have meaning. It just also happens to be a masculine, with a slight edge of geekyness, power fantasy. And thats okay. 
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Feb 7, 2018 14:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There are other fantasy and SF series that are much, much worse offenders in the "juvenile power fantasy" field. I have no doubt there are, but I haven't read them. I've had Monster Hunter International sitting in my "to read" pile for over a year now. I recall opening it to a random page and it wasn't quite, "I saw the hot girl and I kissed the hot girl and it was loving awesome because she was so hot!" but whatever it was managed to be pretty close. I don't know, maybe you're right and I'm being too hard. I like old pulp stories that can get pretty lurid (among other things). I enjoy things like Ian Fleming novels and Mickey Spillane novels and so on. Dresden certainly isn't worse than those on the "problematic" front by any stretch of the imagination. Why I'm easier on them than Dresden when Dresden never has passages of Harry musing about how much he hates Koreans is obviously something I need to think about.
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Feb 7, 2018 15:14
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awesmoe posted:yes and no, but mostly yes I always thought the ladies going after him was kinda funny, given that Harry's so down on himself. He's tall, but described as being kinda gangly, hawk-faced, etc. I wish the female side of the supporting cast was a little better, and that's probably why I enjoy Verus a little more. I love Caldera. But yeah, the later part is what I'm driving at with the "yes and no" answer. It's the difference between a decent burger at a favorite fast-casual place and some greasy glob of sweet meat bought off a dollar menu. Power fantasy at play, sure, but there's more going on than just Butcher giving the reader a handjob. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Eh, that seems overly harsh. Dresden at least makes mistakes sometimes, screws up, and has to deal with the consequences of his own bad actions. The series is a power fantasy but not a pure power fantasy. Dresden has problems that go beyond "which hot girl will I pick" etc., and frequently the plot is driven by his own personal failures. F/SF/UF tends to be toxic as hell to the point of me putting any given book under a microscope before I think about reading it. Most of Jim's flaws I'm willing to assign to him being an awkward white guy that grew up on a diet of fantasy, as opposed to him being an actively hateful piece of poo poo. For what it's worth, I'm not saying that power fantasy is bad in itself, or that Dresden is high-lit. I'm just trying to say that a lot of them tend to be really simple, stupid, hateful, boring books that don't even deliver some interesting lines like Jim can. Wheat Loaf posted:Dresden Files is Twilight for boys. That doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing in and of itself but it is what it is. I read straight up romance novels. Twilight was boring as hell and the scenes just sort of meandered along until they ended. Re-imagining it as a series where Bella marches around, kicking down doors and setting buildings on fire is way more entertaining.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:45
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Remember the short story that was in a different point of view and dresden is described as mild mannered nerdy and gangly most of the time but in the blink of an eye turns into this incredibly intimidating person wielding immense terrifying power?
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Feb 7, 2018 19:51
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Dresden 100% has power fantasy elements, but it's low-key about it and makes relatively few problematic missteps in pursuing that fantasy.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:52
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