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You know, sometimes I play a little game with myself where I recast any given Japanese video game, anime, whatever, as an examination of Japanese fears of outside cultures. Final Fantasy X is a story which starts in a land of peace, prosperity, technology, and leisure. Suddenly it is sneak-attacked by an outside land, via many many dropped weapons. A blond, loud, good-naturedly obnoxious sports-obsessed guy is then taken into that land, where he proceeds to help the very personification of yamato nadeshiko break both a cultural stagnation of 1000 years based on outdated, archaic practices which are specifically designed to hold that culture in stasis, and also the influence of his own culture in perpetuating that stagnation. Also, something something al bhed as burakumin. That land then has to choose how to proceed, but also firmly decides that young female idol singers are a good idea.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:14
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| # ? May 26, 2024 07:24 |
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Cleretic posted:Lightning I think will end up standing as the least liked protagonist in FF for a long time (unless XVI pulls some poo poo or Cecil goes on a racist rant), but it's not entirely her fault. Are you basing this on anything or what The only polls I could somewhat call relevant are this recent-ish one asking for KH characters where Lightning got almost as many votes as Noctis, this older poll by the official SE forums (or something?) where Lightning got favorite Female ff character, and this 2010 famitsu VG character poll where Lightning ranked yet most of the pre-FF7 protagonists did not. I saw some other poll result where Lightning was 5th for female FF protags from some japanese poll but I couldn't verify the source. Now I don't want to just cherry pick polls all day and argue about what polls count or not, but at the very least I would say that doesn't not hold up with the idea of "Lightning is not liked". She's decently popular, sitting well among the other FF protagonists, and I don't get why some people keep trying to repeat the idea she's not. Idk if it's an american thing
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Feb 7, 2018 16:32
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TheCenturion posted:You know, sometimes I play a little game with myself where I recast any given Japanese video game, anime, whatever, as an examination of Japanese fears of outside cultures. 
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Feb 7, 2018 16:32
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Kinda want this as an AV
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Feb 7, 2018 16:33
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Ventana posted:Are you basing this on anything or what Lightning is a super popular FF protag and probably the most recognizable female lead the series has produced.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:35
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Cleretic posted:Lightning I think will end up standing as the least liked protagonist in FF for a long time (unless XVI pulls some poo poo or Cecil goes on a racist rant), but it's not entirely her fault. Almost everyone in XIII is bad, not just her, the fact she was crammed down our throats didn't go down well at all, and let's be real there's probably a bit of misogyny mixed in there too with her being the most undebatable female FF protagonist. I really hope that doesn't end up causing S-E to backlash against her type of character entirely, because I actually like her character design a lot and god damnit I want more lady-lead FFs, but I feel like S-E's not really the type to run screaming away from the superficial reasons why something is unpopular. Lightning consistently does well on popularity rankings, especially in Japan, and Japan's opinion is really important even if maybe it shouldn't be. Even overseas though Lightning isn't particularly unpopular. Like for all that some people hate FFXIII with a passion, it's honestly rarely something that translates over to Lightning herself. You see more strong opinions on Hope, Vanille or Snow.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:36
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Lightning is also the second cool protagonist in FF that is a woman (the first being Lady "I don't like your plan. I think it sucks!" Yuna) so she'll be forever popular. Meow meow chocochow
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Feb 7, 2018 16:39
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Yeah Lightning and Noctis (and Gladiolus) have done consistently well enough to appear outside of the franchises in commercials for other things. They haven't really done that much of that outside of that one FFIX Coca-Cola commercial.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:39
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That Lightning has popularity outside of Japan is kind of impressive when you remember most personality she had was removed in translation with almost surgical precision, and then you have Toriyama going on and on and on about
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Feb 7, 2018 16:41
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ImpAtom posted:Lightning consistently does well on popularity rankings, especially in Japan, and Japan's opinion is really important even if maybe it shouldn't be. Even overseas though Lightning isn't particularly unpopular. I feel that Lightning was failed by the self-serious supporting cast in FFXIII and was a lot more interesting playing the straight man in kooksville ala LR.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:42
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Lightning is also the second cool protagonist in FF that is a woman (the first being Lady "I don't like your plan. I think it sucks!" Yuna) so she'll be forever popular. Wouldn’t the first be Terra?
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Feb 7, 2018 16:43
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Dragonatrix posted:That Lightning has popularity outside of Japan is kind of impressive when you remember most personality she had was removed in translation with almost surgical precision, and then you have Toriyama going on and on and on about To be fair like 70% of FF's fanbase probably thinks Toriyama is the guy who made Dragonball if they recognize the name at all.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:47
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Lightning is bae
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Feb 7, 2018 16:48
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Avalerion posted:Wouldn’t the first be Terra? Terra sucks.Celes is mediocre but that's because she doesn't actually get that much characterization or arc once you start actively controlling her as the main character because they shift to a series of disconnected, non-essential vignettes so writing character interactions and moments that filled the World of Balance would have been too difficult considering the possible variations of who you could have when and where. FF6 post floating continent is a let down compared to the first half of the game saved by a fantastic final dungeon/bosses and a few of the vignettes being good enough. The WoR is a cool idea executed kind of poorly since it shifts this ensemble cast and story to a series of discrete and separate events so there's very little There There character interaction wise when the better part of the game till that point are those character interaction bits, like Sabin and Cyan trying to figure out what Gau's deal was. It'd have been a much better game if they just handled the events like the last time the party was forced to split up since you'd get the best of both worlds in that regard. Hell it'd even play into the final dungeon design if you grouped them into separate parties that make their way to the tower because the tower makes you do that anyway!
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Feb 7, 2018 16:56
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:Not an emptyquote This was why I was hesitant to try it.
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Feb 7, 2018 17:12
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Noctone posted:Lightning is bae
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Feb 7, 2018 17:19
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Dragonatrix posted:That Lightning has popularity outside of Japan is kind of impressive when you remember most personality she had was removed in translation with almost surgical precision, and then you have Toriyama going on and on and on about Tbh I think Lightning is still pretty cool just from her battle lines and stuff, it's just the cutscenes where they gave weird direction for Ali Hillis (who, otherwise, can do a great job as a VA)
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Feb 7, 2018 17:28
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I'm here for the steak.
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Feb 7, 2018 17:28
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Lightning's a badass woman of action who punches Snow twice, of course people like her. I mean, people would probably like Hope more if he actually followed through and murdered Snow.
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Feb 7, 2018 17:41
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Dragonatrix posted:That Lightning has popularity outside of Japan is kind of impressive when you remember most personality she had was removed in translation with almost surgical precision, and then you have Toriyama going on and on and on about What was her personality like in the original? Because as ridiculously one-note "I'm a strong woman and a soldier, hmph!" as she is, this will never not be an awesome moment for a Final Fantasy hero https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLKSFPrD_Tk&t=28s
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Feb 7, 2018 17:42
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Avalerion posted:And it’s like 20+ games by now. Top of my head I can’t think of any other franchise with that many entries, but would bet on fire emblem or dragon quest as runner ups. atelier
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Feb 7, 2018 17:46
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If you don't count remakes, Final Fantasy has 80ish games and spinoffs. There's a fuckton of Chocobo games. Pokemon has over 120, not combining generations (i.e. red and blue are counted separately), but this also counts all the weird Tyco handheld types and stuff too. The Mega Man series is close to this. Mario has over 250 games he's been in, most of which he stars in, this includes the Donkey Kong games. So yeah, there's your winner. Nice. Someone should do this with Sephiroth's summon.
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Feb 7, 2018 17:46
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IIRC she's supposed to be angrier
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Feb 7, 2018 17:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in9fg7Vhmw0
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Feb 7, 2018 17:48
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Insider sources inside Square-Enix Toriyama has revealed one of the key details of his new in the works light novella featuring Lightning getting married to a Japanese dude who looks like Toriyama is that Cid is actually an acronym, it stands for "Caius in disguise", and it means that Caius Ballad is actually all Cids throughout the series, endlessly reincarnated after the events of FFXIII-3. This is part of an ongoing campaign for Toriyama to revolve the entire Final Fantasy series around his waifu. Cid who blows himself up? Caius. Cid who beats his wife? Caius. Cid who creates an invincible bioweapon and enters into a pact with a space dragon god after his wife got killed by his corrupt government into using the fighting energy of kidnapped warriors from across time and space to power up his invincible bioweapon and also the space dragon god? Caius. Cid who fixes cars and is somehow okay with his granddaughter dressing up as a tramp? Yep, Caius.
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Feb 7, 2018 17:51
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Gologle posted:Cid who creates an invincible bioweapon and enters into a pact with a space dragon god after his wife got killed by his corrupt government into using the fighting energy of kidnapped warriors from across time and space to power up his invincible bioweapon and also the space dragon god? Caius. 
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Feb 7, 2018 18:00
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DACK FAYDEN posted:uh excuse me Drakengard is not in the FF universe (yet) 
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Feb 7, 2018 18:03
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Mega64 posted:Lightning's a badass woman of action who punches Snow twice, of course people like her. Hope sucks. The Hope/Snow thing is like "what if we took the Vaan/Basch dynamic but drug it out over ten hours and made it way more pathetic???"
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Feb 7, 2018 18:06
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Actually I'd say Hope/Snow is better than Vaan/Basch because FF13 at least tries to give some weight to it (Even if it fails), and FF12 just kind of shrugs it off early on.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:18
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Raxivace posted:If it's not then why are there FF15 references in Automata? Automata has two of those weapons, FFXV and generic Dragon Quest Cypress Stick. And it's set in the same world as original Nier, which is an alternate parallel Earth distinct from Drakengard's Earth-but-south-is-"up"-on-the-map. So the Drakengard multiverse is Earth (Drakengard), Earth (Nier), Earth (Lightning Returns), unknown Dragon Quest world (probably the DQ1/2/3 world given that it was the Cypress Stick specifically), and FFXV world. (Plus whatever else is in it we don't know about - I think the unresolved plot threads are the origin of Cathedral City and where Accord is from. Plus space aliens. Plus I guess Nier Earth could technically also be Lightning Returns Earth.) summary: nier takes place in paris and kaine is lightning
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Feb 7, 2018 18:22
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Doesn’t Nier take place in Post Apocalypse Tokyo?
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Feb 7, 2018 18:27
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quote:A fan attendance described Cloud’s new design as a more natural look. Nomura and Hamaguchi mentioned that “while Cloud may look this way, he was a dork. I believe those of you who played the the original would understand what I mean by saying he’s a dorky character.” That said, we’ll see more of the youthful side of Cloud rather than the always-serious one we’ve seen more outside of the original game." im glad they ermembered the plot of ff7
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Feb 7, 2018 18:32
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Cephas posted:What was her personality like in the original? Because as ridiculously one-note "I'm a strong woman and a soldier, hmph!" as she is, this will never not be an awesome moment for a Final Fantasy hero Lightning's thing is that she's actually extremely emotional and easily pissed off and gets angry quickly and spends a lot of her time trying to remain in control. She isn't cool and collected, she's like five seconds away from punching someone the gently caress out at any given time and barely keeping that in check. The translation basically conveys this poorly and ends up making her seem stoic and cold. This hurts a lot of things because it changes how her response to various events comes off. She's extremely driven and focused and prone to explosive action. (Which is why she's named Lightning because on-the-nose-naming.) All of her plots and character beats rely around this. She makes a lot of mistakes because she's rash and quick to anger. Almost everything she does involves that as well. It's why her plot in Lightning Returns involves having her emotions stolen and when that happens they're so strong they literally become a separate character. The English translation makes her look a lot more stoic and serious and cold. The voice acting direction makes her sound sulky or bored where Maaya Sakamoto's voice is more like five seconds away from telling you to go gently caress yourself and trying to be polite about it.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:35
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people compare lightning to cloud but shes a lot more like barret in terms of personality in the japanese version, send tweet.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:36
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ImpAtom posted:Lightning's thing is that she's actually extremely emotional and easily pissed off and gets angry quickly and spends a lot of her time trying to remain in control. She isn't cool and collected, she's like five seconds away from punching someone the gently caress out at any given time and barely keeping that in check. The translation basically conveys this poorly and ends up making her seem stoic and cold. This hurts a lot of things because it changes how her response to various events comes off. She's extremely driven and focused and prone to explosive action. (Which is why she's named Lightning because on-the-nose-naming.) If I could get this translation I’d give FFXIII another go. Makes her sound way more interesting.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:15
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Morby posted:If I could get this translation I’d give FFXIII another go. Makes her sound way more interesting. I mean it's FFXIII so her plot still ends up kind of fizzling. I'm not trying to say she's secretly a fantastic character or anything but that she comes off as having more of a personality instead of being sulky sadface. Which is honestly what happened to Cloud post-FF7 too.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:25
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Morby posted:If I could get this translation I’d give FFXIII another go. Makes her sound way more interesting.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:27
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FF13 has a lot more structural problems than just Lightning's voice direction. For example, everything else about the story.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:28
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i am tim! posted:Doesn’t Nier take place in Post Apocalypse Tokyo? Which is why I presume it's not Lightning Returns Earth. Much like Gogo is not Adlai Stevenson.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:31
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Terra sucks. wow rude
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Feb 7, 2018 20:34
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