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MockingQuantum posted:being chased by something, thinking how they would be in the clear, "if only I had _______" no so you can have them talk about what they look like in a mirror duhhh i actually read a really bad book i think opened like that called minds eye? or something like that. dude opened in a gas station bathroom with an injury and someone chasing him down i think.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:26
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anime was right posted:no so you can have them talk about what they look like in a mirror duhhh Oh I thought we were just collecting all the bad overused cold opens
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Feb 7, 2018 19:27
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hmm, thats actually a fun experiment, what are the most common cold opens? random person finds dead body (usually a one page chapter) crime in progress tragic ptsd flashback just experienced a grave injury running from or chasing something i kind of associate them with thrillers/mysteries more than anything.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:33
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anime was right posted:hmm, thats actually a fun experiment, what are the most common cold opens? First/last day/week of school. Bonus points for principle on intercom or protag hosting a morning school-wide news show.
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Feb 7, 2018 19:50
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Someone please write a short story that consists of only writing cliches. Open on an alarm going off and a person waking up, then looking at themselves in a mirror.
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Feb 7, 2018 20:09
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Bob was being chased by a monster. It had eaten his arm. And then it closed in, about to eat him. “Oh no,” said Bob. Then Bob woke up. He looked at himself in the mirror. His hair was brown, like his eyes, which were tired, like his wife, who was actually the monster.
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Feb 7, 2018 20:11
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The dark and stormy dream gazed at itself in the mirror on the morning before the first day of cop school. Somewhere, a dog barked.
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Feb 7, 2018 20:23
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it was both his first day of school and his last day of being a cop. Just 24 hours between his retirement and meeting a cute coed who would change his life forever.
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Feb 7, 2018 20:41
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jon joe posted:Bob was being chased by a monster. It had eaten his arm. And then it closed in, about to eat him. fixed for u
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Feb 7, 2018 20:57
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MockingQuantum posted:being chased by something, thinking how they would be in the clear, "if only I had _______" If only i had a mirror! GENIUS! Edit: Short story. It was a dark and stormy night and the building was on fire; it was my fault. It was the final day of magic school and here I was, battling hell demons with Chelsy, the cute cheerleader, and I hadn't done my hair. Exmond fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 21:20
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Who are some YA authors that have really great prose? I know there's no universal good style and everyone has their own strengths, but I'm looking to improve mine in various ways for an edit of my book and want some various inspirations.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:57
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feedmyleg posted:Who are some YA authors that have really great prose? I know there's no universal good style and everyone has their own strengths, but I'm looking to improve mine in various ways for an edit of my book and want some various inspirations. Philip Pullman is pretty good.
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Feb 8, 2018 01:47
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feedmyleg posted:Who are some YA authors that have really great prose? I know there's no universal good style and everyone has their own strengths, but I'm looking to improve mine in various ways for an edit of my book and want some various inspirations. Jacqueline Woodson, Sandhya Menon, Leigh Bardugo, Angie Thomas, Meg Medina, Jason Reynolds, Daniel José Older, Neal Shusterman, and of course Tyra Banks.
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Feb 8, 2018 03:39
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Looking at his reflection in a grimy Jeep windshield is the only way Sergeant Flint Hardmeat can stitch up his own facial wounds.
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Feb 8, 2018 14:49
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It's been a while since I've posted here, finally finished (to my current, and very temporary, satisfaction) my fantasy novel topping out at 99K words. Already sent it to a few friends for their take and I'm craving some more feedback. I already read the first page and even had set up a thread for individual chapters in loving 2014 here on an earlier iteration (which had no real feedback, which is more my fault than anything), so I already know to do some things. But also looking for some in your face criticism, the hard stuff man. Is going to a writing group with an entire novel normal, instead of what I imagine are sections or short stories? Is there other places in the internet that are looking for already heavily edited revised fantasy novels to rip apart? Anyone got any good ideas? Apologies if I'm asking qs that have already been answered ad nauseum, only read the first and last few pages of the thread. e: anime was right posted:hmm, thats actually a fun experiment, what are the most common cold opens? lol this happens in the novel.
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Feb 9, 2018 22:47
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its fine to use those as cold opens they're just really common!!!
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Feb 9, 2018 23:27
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Post the first page, (here, if you like) and see if people ask you to post more.
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Feb 10, 2018 01:01
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sebmojo posted:Post the first page, (here, if you like) and see if people ask you to post more. The first page, not the first chapter. Well the first page is 448 and the chapter is 4300, so that might be better. Anyway, here it is: quote:The meadow was made of white flowers, single lines of red bisecting their soft petals, swaying gently in the breeze. Long thin stalks raised them to near waist high, giving their star shaped forms a motion as ethereal, as ghostly, as the air that moved it. edit: I don't know if the way I posted was the proper way to do it, please let me know if it isn't. The bold is a chapter heading, GRRM-style, its by character names. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 07:45
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- Hmmm... you open with two sentences poetically describing a field of pretty flowers, then the third and fourth sentences say that they're irrelevant because the main character has much more important things on his mind. The main character probably has a point. Even if this is some In Media Res thing we'll come back to later, we'll probably have forgotten about the flowers by the time we get back there anyway. This strikes me as the kind of image you open a movie with, but that probably works a lot less when it's only text on a page. - "eyes panic wide" - I guess you're trying to avoid the well-used phrase "eyes wide with panic". While the meaning does come across, this draws attention to the fact that the author is trying to avoid the phrase, which reminds the reader that there's an author. - "His right foot went for the ground and missed." - You've managed to make this unclear. It tends to be difficult to miss the ground with one's foot. After a certain age, people stop thinking about how to move their bodies, it becomes automatic, so I'm wondering how he managed to lose coordination all of a sudden. Did he slip? Was there a hole his foot plunged into? Did an existing injury cause his leg to buckle? I'm reminded of Douglas Adams "to fly, you just throw yourself at the ground and miss". - "Goddamned flowers." / "Sweat fell like damned rain," - It might just be me, but I'm feeling a little disconnect in the point of view. You started off with a detailed description of flowers, then state that the main character wasn't paying attention to them at all, but now we're getting his thoughts in the narration. How much of this is supposed to be in Danny's voice, how much is the narrator's voice? quote:Because Danny might not be a lot of things, but there was one he definitely was. - Danny is a Goddamnit? I realize that you're apparently trying to be coy and to tease the audience about something, but that sentence does not convey any meaningful information. quote:Even as he barreled down the field, it started up. The quiet voice in the back of his head, the one that whispered before a payoff, right before one thing or another would catch up to him and in a cold, considered voice, tell him precisely, perfectly, that it was time to get the hell OUT. This definitely seems like an In Media Res situation now, but to me, this paragraph doesn't seem to say much of interest. We already know he's running for his life. He's already trying to get the hell away (or whatever). It's the equivalent to "The quiet voice in Danny's voice informed him that he should probably continue to do what he was already doing, running for his life." It doesn't tell the reader anything. I assume this is trying to be coy again. - "He reached the end of the field and sprinted into the forest itself, a wall of green and shadows. He slammed right into it," - That gives the impression that it's a literal wall, painted onto a flat surface. If it's an actual forest, Danny should probably do what human beings do - observe tree trunks which are right in front of him and adjust his course before running straight into them. - "never-ending number of ivy's" - Typo. There should be no apostrophe there, that's used to indicate possessiveness, like 'Bill's truck'. quote:the quiet voice whispered in the back of his head. - To be brutal, my first reaction is "I don't care." That's very bad for the first page of the book. This situation is vague and doesn't catch my interest, it's a guy running from something through a field of flowers into a forest. The main character has nothing to do but run and say "Goddamn it". The only thing I know about him is that he is a male, with arms and legs. quote:There was no easing into, no build-up, just bam, his legs wind-milling and everything in full chase. His arms winded wildly, snapping the last of the vines. He caught himself on one of the thick trees infesting the forest, bunched close enough that all he saw between were slivers of dark. He then stood up and smacked his head against one of its drat branches. - I would have appreciated some easing into and build-up. You're also jumping back and forth in time in the same paragraph. The first sentence should be attached to the previous paragraph "how did he get here again?". - "Winded" is not the right word in this context. Maybe you mean "windmilled", but the image of someone doing that is just silly. You say he snapped the vines. I didn't realize he was tangled up in them in the first place. What kind of vines are they? Snapped suggests they are brown and dead, making them easier to snap, but they could be green, and alive, which would make them more difficult to snap. If the vines are "never-ending" how did he clear the last of them so quickly? (Probably delete "never-ending".) - You aren't describing the flow of events in enough detail. I can't get a sense of where he is and what he's doing. He goes from clearing vines to immediately hitting a tree without any indication that he's started running again. This is an action scene, we need the detail. - "He heard the bushes rustle and ivy get snapped clean somewhere behind. " - I thought that he was just right at the outskirts of the forest, because it is unclear where he is and what he's doing. I'm not getting any sense of movement or progress through the forest. It's like he was caught on the vines right at the edge, then suddenly he's a lot farther inside without warning. - Danny's pursuers seem to be really, really slow. He's running at top speed, fine, but he fell on his face and had to start running again, he got caught and tangled in vines and had to free himself, he ran into a tree and hit his head, and it's so dark in the forest that he can't see where he's going, which means he can't go as fast, and they're still a good distance behind him, apparently. Overall, this opening did not grab my attention. When opening a book, the reader has a blank canvas in their head, they know nothing of the world, the conflict, and its characters. The canvas is still blank. It's fine if you want to use an In Media Res to hook the reader with some action, hiding the specifics for later reveals. However, you still need to give the reader something to connect to. In this case, it's probably Danny, and his dilemma. Who is he, what is his problem, what does he want? I don't get any insight into Danny's character at all. Can you give Danny some thoughts which are vaguely worded enough to give us a reason to connect, without spoiling your later reveals?
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Feb 10, 2018 15:46
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I didn't mind the opening, save for a few lines your story posted:Because Danny might not be a lot of things, but there was one he definitely was. And danny sure does trip a lot, which is weird. So far I'm getting a vibe that Danny is an idiot. I liked this line, it added humour. your story posted:His right foot went for the ground and missed. His face found it. Maybe fix it up a little if other people find it bad. Given what I read I would read a bit more, but it does wear on my patience. So far the draw is "Danny is running away from something, also danny trips a lot and is a bit of a tard" which isn't a good draw. Exmond fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 20:57
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Exmond posted:Given what I read I would read a bit more, but it does wear on my sentence. So far the draw is "Danny is running away from something, also danny trips a lot and is a bit of a tard" which isn't a good draw. Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Overall, this opening did not grab my attention. When opening a book, the reader has a blank canvas in their head, they know nothing of the world, the conflict, and its characters. The canvas is still blank. It's fine if you want to use an In Media Res to hook the reader with some action, hiding the specifics for later reveals. However, you still need to give the reader something to connect to. In this case, it's probably Danny, and his dilemma. Who is he, what is his problem, what does he want? I don't get any insight into Danny's character at all. Can you give Danny some thoughts which are vaguely worded enough to give us a reason to connect, without spoiling your later reveals? Agreeing with both of these. You've got Danny, flowers, and not much else. I don't know anything about Danny and he hasn't done anything unique. All he's done is run and curse, which reveal nothing about his character except 1) he has legs, and 2) he swears when stressed. Throw in the fact that he's male and he could be any one of about a billion people. Stop worrying so much about action and start worrying about conflict. They seem like the same thing, but they're really not. Exmond posted:I liked this line, it added humour.
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Feb 11, 2018 07:29
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Thanks guys, I felt a little weird about posting just one page since I didn't really think much was happening yet, but yeah being "too cute" in my writing, and a lack of focus on a specific viewpoint are all things I need to work on. The conflict gets introduced on the third page I think, but maybe that's just too late to grab readers. Thanks again.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:23
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Shageletic posted:Thanks guys, I felt a little weird about posting just one page since I didn't really think much was happening yet, but yeah being "too cute" in my writing, and a lack of focus on a specific viewpoint are all things I need to work on. The conflict gets introduced on the third page I think, but maybe that's just too late to grab readers. Thanks again. I've heard from Agents and Publishers that you often have 5 - 10 pages to hook them. Some have shorter attention spans and only care if you can get them interested enough to turn past the first page. This is most prevalent in Big 5 publishers (and subsidiaries) as well as larger agent firms. The slush piles are truly mountainous in many cases, so why put in the effort to find the hook in your work vs moving on to the next query/manuscript in the pile? Beyond that, when a reader picks up a book in a bookstore (people still go to physical bookstores?) they often pop it open and read the first page or two to make a buying decision. Give them something that's going to keep them from dropping it back on the shelf.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:44
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I'm about to finish the 1st draft of my first novel, probably about a week away at my current pace. I read through the OP (again) to pick up some tips on where to go next. However, I've been editing as I go, reading aloud at the end of each chapter, went back and added notes on places to fix up/change as I deepened material in later chapters, and did extensive outlining and notecarding before I started so the form is relatively locked in. I'll go through and do another pass of a basic edit, including reading it all aloud again. Are there any other tips of what to do at this stage? Like putting everything in Hemingway, or whatever? Or doing like, scene-by-scene motivation mapping or something? It's a mystery, so perhaps there's a system for working out plot holes? Or a way of working out things that can be trimmed down and compressed? After that pass I was thinking of giving it to a couple of friend/family readers to get basic feedback, then either submitting it to some publishers or hiring an independent editor to do a pass and then self publish. Does that all seem about right? Or am I missing something major? Or does anyone have any general advice at this stage that isn't covered by the OP?
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Feb 13, 2018 23:34
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test readers and put your book in the fridge for a couple of weeks so your eyes are fresh when you come back to it seems about right when you're done with a first/second edit pass, yeah.
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Feb 13, 2018 23:38
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congrats, btw. the first major hurdle is getting a single first draft done, i've found. it's much easier to write an entire book after you've done it once before.
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Feb 13, 2018 23:40
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Thanks! And that's good, because my "what to write next" document has only grown and grown and grown over the past three months. I'm so happy to finally have this thing out of my head after sitting on it for ages. I'm so excited to move on to something else!
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Feb 13, 2018 23:42
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Could I ask for some constructive advice on how to improve this story: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3845416&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=13#post481196390 It was a story I did for TD that DM'd. There were some punctuation errors that I think I need to be taught (please god not dialogue tags) Was the Suddenly she-dies ending bad? I thought I had foreshadowed with the tailor mentioning how far people will go for inspiration? Even if foreshadowed,would it sink the story? Exmond fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 00:12
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edit: actually posting this in TD
anime was right fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 03:08
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God, sometimes writing is just the worst thing ever. I'm still chipping away at a book, and I'm really enjoying the process, but the last few days I've worked on it I've kind of gotten discouraged because I feel like I have no idea where it's going. I'm figuring out a lot of the key elements of the book while I'm writing it, like character needs and relationships, plot points, conflicts, etc. but I have no strong feeling about how it's going to end, even in the broadest sense. And I'm not sure what to do about it. I've tried outlining, I've tried snowflake method, I've tried throwing index cards in the air, none of it really illuminates the story any better for me. I know just writing until it's done, then fixing poo poo is probably what I should do, since it's working so far, but it sucks feeling like I have no safety line to the end of the process. How often do people itt kind of "woodshed" the plot of their work with other writers? I find I tend to clarify a lot of my ideas by talking through them, but I don't really have any writer friends available to talk through it with, and I feel too self-conscious about the book at this point to try and explain what I've figured out so far with random non-writer friends.
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Feb 14, 2018 03:13
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I tend not to, as realistically speaking, no one but my friends will (be coerced to) read what I write and I want to save the "thrills and chills" for them.
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Feb 14, 2018 04:31
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MockingQuantum posted:God, sometimes writing is just the worst thing ever. I'm still chipping away at a book, and I'm really enjoying the process, but the last few days I've worked on it I've kind of gotten discouraged because I feel like I have no idea where it's going. I'm figuring out a lot of the key elements of the book while I'm writing it, like character needs and relationships, plot points, conflicts, etc. but I have no strong feeling about how it's going to end, even in the broadest sense. And I'm not sure what to do about it. No one knows every element of a story before writing it, everyone discovers things as they work through it. That's perfectly normal, it's called writing. Maybe sometimes you need to write all the way to the end and look at the story at a whole before you realize what it's about. As for me, I have a difficult time writing a story if I don't have a good idea in mind for how it'll end. But some of the stuff I've read has helped me think about story and character arcs and how they are related in good stories. When writing a story, you should probably know at least two of the following four things before you start: a starting point for your character, a starting point for your plot, an ending point for your character, a ending point for your plot. If you know two of those things, you can think your way to the other two. The ending of the plot should spring from the seeds sown in the beginning. What is the major plot problem which gets the main character involved? What outcome does the main character want to see? Will they succeed or fail? What is the main character like at the beginning? Generally speaking, your character at the end of the story should be basically in the opposite place they were at the beginning (in outlook or circumstance or even both). They start out with one mindset, one view, one major flaw/misconception, and at the end, they are different, they have recognized their flaw and overcome it for a positive-ending story (or fall victim to it in a negative-ending story). That's where you get a character arc from. Character arcs should be thematically related to the overall arc of the story. Character and Story arcs should follow roughly the same course. This can also work in reverse too. If you know an endpoint for a plot or character arc, it can inform your beginning. I had an idea for a plot about a starship technician whose ship is caught in a time loop, but I didn't really have much in the way of character for them. However, I figured out that for the ending, I wanted to end it without the tech being able to resolve everything the way they wanted. That led to realizing that the tech's flaw is that he's pretty arrogant/egotistical, who thinks he's hot poo poo and can fix everything. Boom, because I had a story arc, I could match it to a character arc. Sorry for my sleep-deprived ramblings, I hope they make sense.
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Feb 14, 2018 06:10
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Took another shot at the first page, if you don't wanna go through the trouble of parsing it again I understand.quote:The meadow was made of white flowers, single lines of red bisecting their soft petals, swaying gently in the breeze. Long thin stalks raised them to near waist high, giving their star shaped forms a motion as ethereal, as ghostly, as the air that moved it. Still gotta work on the viewpoint thing and being coy (still went with the eyes panic wide, I dunno I just like the sound of it) but tried to make the threat clearer. Well, I mean its invisible but still.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:09
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Shageletic posted:Took another shot at the first page, if you don't wanna go through the trouble of parsing it again I understand. It's cleaner and the prose is tighter but there's still no story here. Danny is running. That's it. Try going on Amazon and looking at the first pages of the best-selling books in your genre this year. With only ~250 words to play with, all of those authors had to make some hard choices when picking what information to convey. Get a sense of their choices and use them to revisit your own. How is what you've done different than what they've done? What's the common thread in all of their first pages that yours lacks? EDIT: Also, I'm a little unclear on why the Danny comes two lines down. Do those first lines appear on a page before? They're not written from his perspective, so it makes sense that the Danny would come after, but it's a weird choice to go omniscient for two lines and then drop down. I'm not saying you can't do it, it's just not doing you any favors.
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Feb 14, 2018 21:24
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who are they and why is danny scared of them. there's like two big things here: if danny doesn't know what he's running from, maybe use the advantage of the unknown to emphasize the element of fear or tell the reader who danny is running from and why. it doesn't have to be a powerful reason, yet, but a reason nonetheless. i think those two things would help a lot.
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Feb 14, 2018 21:43
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MockingQuantum posted:God, sometimes writing is just the worst thing ever. I'm still chipping away at a book, and I'm really enjoying the process, but the last few days I've worked on it I've kind of gotten discouraged because I feel like I have no idea where it's going. I'm figuring out a lot of the key elements of the book while I'm writing it, like character needs and relationships, plot points, conflicts, etc. but I have no strong feeling about how it's going to end, even in the broadest sense. And I'm not sure what to do about it. I know the feeling, and I've been going through the same sort of thing. I tend to just pants, and I've felt it was easier getting words out before, and lately it's been harder. I've tried to outline some, but I really don't like doing it. I love the feeling of exploring, discovery and having my characters surprise me. I've talked through ideas I've had when I was stuck with fellow writers in my RL writer's group, or in writing discords. Though I feel like it hasn't helped a lot, except for getting some small nudges to ideas of how to get through it. I've hard the idea of writing a story based on a photo I really liked of a dog and deer in the back of a police car, so I was picturing them as teenagers who got in trouble. I have a vague idea of their personalities, and I'm trying to figure out more. Also, what sort of conflict they have to deal with. I think the excellent adventure game Night in the Woods was also an inspiration. One piece of advice I got was thinking about some everyday situations they might be put in, so I've been trying to do that. Another story I'm working on is a fantasy short story about a human boy named Zack who goes to live with lizard folk and they have weird customs, and he's truing to fit in. Basically, they don't wear clothes when playing until they're 10 (it's a desert, so very hot), and because Zack is clothed. There's some embarrassing mishaps, and eventually he finds a way to fit in by going through a coming of age ceremony when he turns 10. The whole thing is only 5,000 words, and I'd really want it to be a novel length story, so I'm trying to think of good B or C plots that parallel the themes of fitting in, and vulnerability in the main story. I've done about 3 rewrites and a few editing passes. The world is one I've been working on for about 10 years now and am starting to think about actually writing a story set in the world.
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Feb 14, 2018 21:59
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Naerasa posted:It's cleaner and the prose is tighter but there's still no story here. Danny is running. That's it. anime was right posted:who are they and why is danny scared of them. there's like two big things here: Thanks, I'll think about it. I do appreciate the criticism, one of my biggest regrets is not getting a creative writing degree before grad school (instead of my super useful poli sci B.A.). I've always had an interest in writing but I really don't have the skills or practice I wish I already had. So the best thing I can do is to have critical people take a look at it I suppose and learn from that (I do feel embarrassed about already sending the earlier version to friends tho).
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Feb 14, 2018 22:15
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I am now on the third draft of my first novel After that I've got a few options for my next one since I'm going to try shopping around the first one One's a Western Fantasy about a disgraced Necromancer and her Paladin-in-training companion taking on a cult of vampires in the deserts of North America along with a host of other supernatural and mythological creatures (including Wendigo, Skin Walkers, chupacabra ect) One's a more light hearted story, I think somewhere between a Kids book and a YA novel, about a group of monsters finding themselves in a strange alien world and banding together despite none of them particularly liking one another. The last one is the darkest of the three, an urban fantasy about a young woman being possessed with the power of an ancient Egyptian deity. I really want to write all three right now but I have to decide which would be best to go forward with first.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:32
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Burkion posted:I really want to write all three right now but I have to decide which would be best to go forward with first. I'll be in a not dissimilar position soon. My plan is to write some of my ideas as short stories first, or write interesting scenes or situations in those worlds. I figure it will help me understand what I love about each of them and make it easier to move forward with one idea, or to realize that some of them don't require longer narratives and can just live as short stories. Or maybe it would make it harder to choose between them once their worlds have been fleshed out. Not sure if it's a good idea or not, but could be something to keep in mind.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:47
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Can writing ever be useless? Like if I work really hard to write 1,500-2,000 words a day just advancing the plot on some story idea I had can I come out the other side of that learning nothing? I've been slowly adding to a story over the past few months and I hate it and I hate where it's going but I feel obligated to continue it rather than just keep jumping to new stories like I used to. Can one write mindlessly? Or if I slug away at that story and get to some kind of ending will I look back at it and think, "Oh hey, this part isn't too bad, and this character works to a certain extent," and excavate some kind of merit from it? I'm already in this and I'm already writing a lot but I guess I feel kind of aimless right now. I hope there's some sort of identifiable question up there. And thanks!
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Feb 15, 2018 04:35
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