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I heard this folklore thing once that was like this lady is making a quilt and if she ever finishes the quilt the world will end and that's green ronin and the timeline
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Feb 8, 2018 00:15
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| # ? May 23, 2024 13:14 |
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Sion posted:Wowiezowie. Their first effort at explaining themselves included the phrases: "We absolutely believe victims. Full stop. We always have, and we always will" and "Green Ronin remains committed to diversity, safety, and respect for all" Turns out, words are cheap.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:15
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Isn't Holden Sheaerer also a friend of CAS?
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Feb 8, 2018 00:28
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Kurieg posted:Isn't Holden Sheaerer also a friend of CAS? No, they can't stand each other. In fact "can't stand each other" is kind of a mild term for how much Holden loathes the guy.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:35
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Holden is the primary source for the antisemitism accusation, which is why that one is a lot iffier than the sexual harassment.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:56
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Kurieg posted:Isn't Holden Sheaerer also a friend of CAS? My mind actually tried to make some sort of weird "The Catcher in the Rye" connection here before recalibrating...
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Feb 8, 2018 01:43
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homullus posted:The timeline itself is in real time Timeline patch 3.0 is coming
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Feb 8, 2018 01:50
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Kurieg posted:Isn't Holden Sheaerer also a friend of CAS? Yes, they're extremely good buddies.
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Feb 8, 2018 01:51
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I knew it was either "best buds" or "visceral Hatred" and i leaned on the wrong side I guess. e: So who's the rear end in a top hat Holden is defending? Kurieg fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 02:45
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I can't remember his buddy's name, but I remember Holden attacking CAS, and it confused things for a while simply because Holden's known to be a lying sack of poo poo, and it hurt the credibility of the victims.
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Feb 8, 2018 04:43
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John Morke is the one we know about. By Holden's own statements there's someone else he hasn't named because of some bullshit about being ~conflicted~ because they helped him out and it might cause Holden inconvenience. EDIT: From this post, specifically this bit: quote:I know the name of someone in the industry I've seen named as a rapist and serial molester by half a dozen different reputable professionals, and every day, I fail to put his identity out in the public because I'm afraid of being targeted with a defamation lawsuit in retaliation-- he has a litigious reputation-- even knowing that my silence leaves him free to create new victims Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 04:56
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Comrade Gorbash posted:John Morke is the one we know about. By Holden's own statements there's someone else he hasn't named because of some bullshit about being ~conflicted~ because they helped him out. Got a link? I don't recall this.
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Feb 8, 2018 05:02
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Comrade Gorbash posted:John Morke is the one we know about. By Holden's own statements there's someone else he hasn't named because of some bullshit about being ~conflicted~ because they helped him out and it might cause Holden inconvenience. Well, tbh, if Holden did name this person, we’d probably just assume it’s a lie, or propose that making this accusation only hurts the credibility of the actual victims, so if Suleiman is any indication he should just keep his head down and instead focus on more immediate battles, like poisoning his brother for voting Trump and/or killing Morke followed by himself. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 8, 2018 05:17
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Holden is pretty explicitly saying that he won't name that person because there is a non-zero chance that they'll sue him, which isn't what you said at all. I mean, if you want to claim it's bullshit, fine, but there's no need to misrepresent what he said.
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Feb 8, 2018 05:20
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He's very explicit about the fact that he's allowing a rapist to continue to operate because he's afraid of being sued. Gorbash's explanation appears to be right on the money. Accusing someone who gives the quote of misrepresentation is bullshit.
counterspin fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 05:26
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Being sued is not "a modicum of personal inconvenience," and the bit about holding back because this person "helped" Holden somehow isn't in the quote at all.
Rand Brittain fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 05:35
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counterspin posted:He's very explicit about the fact that he's allowing a rapist to continue to operate because he's afraid of being sued. Gorbash's explanation appears to be right on the money. Accusing someone who gives the quote of misrepresentation is bullshit. Comrade Gorbash posted:John Morke is the one we know about. By Holden's own statements there's someone else he hasn't named because of some bullshit about being ~conflicted~ because they helped him out and it might cause Holden inconvenience. Wait, so how did the rapist help him out? By not suing him? Am I supposed to believe in the implication that Holden is deliberately deriving some advantage by protecting the rapist or am I now supposed to roll with the implication he is just a coward who is just afraid of some gay lawsuit? Are the half a dozen people who supposedly know this person’s identity also equally culpable by warning only their immediate circle? Help. However, I do think you have a moral responsibility to accuse anyone you might suspect of something bad, unless it’s to protect a loved one or an internet forum, or the person you’re accusing is like super popular or something.
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Feb 8, 2018 05:52
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How about you guys also do a little research instead of having to have this spoon fed to you and then pick apart each bit to see what the meaning of “is” is? It’s even in this drat thread if you take a minute to go back to it. Also, this thing about taking a specific case and turning it into a general one comes up a lot in this thread, and it is as ever some loving bullshit. I’m not making generalized statements about the responsibility of people to report in the face of fears about retaliation. I’m talking about a specific person who is already known to be protecting and minimizing the behavior of another individual (Morke) with sexual misconduct allegations. Who is now mentioning another and even more dangerous person he won’t name. That specific post is not the only time Holden has alluded to this person either. He’s elsewhere described the person as being a former mentor in the industry. There are reasons people can’t publicly report someone, including due to fear of retaliation against themselves or others. But frankly there’s a pattern of behavior with Holden, as a specific actor, that makes it hard to accept as a rationale. Especially since he’s made it a habit of vocally inserting himself into these situations and demanding action from others he’s made clear he’s unwilling to take himself. EDIT: Speaking of patterns of behavior, color me shocked that it’s Rand Brittain and Bedlamdan showing up with the same mealy mouthed hand-wringing and what-aboutism so you can pat yourselves on the back for your enlightened position of not taking any position at all. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 06:50
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Okay, so you just made it up. It really never ceases to amaze me how eager TG (and really SA in general) is to toss imaginary bullshit into things whenever it suits one of the local grudges. Like, Holden makes himself pretty easy to criticize! You don’t have to construct weird conspiracy theories to do it! Like, when Holden is accusing CAS of crimes, it is probably not to shield Morke from unspecific consequences (since there will never be any comsequences) but because CAS is one of the many industry figures Holden despises and he thinks the accusations are true.
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Feb 8, 2018 07:04
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Bitch, then just tell me what you’d like me to think instead of leaving me to puzzle it out myself. Do you want me to believe he’s evil, or just cowardly? I’m down for either.quote:That specific post is not the only time Holden has alluded to this person either. He’s elsewhere described the person as being a former mentor in the industry. Okay so I’ll just trust you on this and leave it at that, is that cool? That said, if anyone else would like to show me this, that would kick rear end, I appreciate being up to date on all the dramas.
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Feb 8, 2018 07:09
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I don't bother giving Holden a second thought but I know he likes to defend his creepy rear end in a top hat friend, Morke and play pass the blame ball. I have no clue wtf else is going on besides him being what, the one source of the antisemitism accusation against the even creepier CA Suleiman? At least I didn't give Holden and Morke any money, then I'd hate their guts too. If anybody has a grudge against Holden, frankly, it's probably well-earned. I've got friends who despise him who aren't goons and are just unfortunate enough to have still been fans of Exalted by the time the Ex3 KS came around.
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Feb 8, 2018 07:35
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Xarbala posted:I don't bother giving Holden a second thought but I know he likes to defend his creepy rear end in a top hat friend, Morke and play pass the blame ball. I have no clue wtf else is going on besides him being what, the one source of the antisemitism accusation against the even creepier CA Suleiman? I have no real opinions about Holden beyond really liking the game he wrote for, and deriving a weird amount of schadenfreude from the fact that Ex3 is outselling anything else OPP is putting out. I will still probably buy into whatever Necromancer rpg he is writing, when it comes out in, say, 2030 or something if he works really fast.
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Feb 8, 2018 08:21
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:His "apology" is my absolute favorite stupid thing, as it is mostly about how sorry he is for being so loving sexy.
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Feb 8, 2018 13:00
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Bedlamdan posted:I have no real opinions about Holden beyond really liking the game he wrote for, and deriving a weird amount of schadenfreude from the fact that Ex3 is outselling anything else OPP is putting out. EX3 is outselling the rest of OPP? When was this said?
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Feb 10, 2018 01:46
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Sampatrick posted:EX3 is outselling the rest of OPP? When was this said? I don't think anybody from OPP ever did say that, and it probably isn't outselling the V20 core, but based on DTRPG's top product ticker it is outselling everything else OPP makes. I don't know how much of that trickles down when you compare, say, Arms of the Chosen to a random non-core V20 book or even how much it outsells, say, a book for Forsaken 2e, though. Hm, let me grab some numbers. Vampire 20th Anniversary is #12 on the chart, and has been there since September 2011. Exalted 3e is #18 on the chart, and has been there since April 2016. Chronicles of Darkness is #22 on the chart, and has been there since December 2015. (Pretty much every other oWoD and cWoD corebook is on the list somewhere below that.) So, based on that, I'd assume that Exalted is selling below Vampire, their most famous product, but above pretty much everywhere else. Rand Brittain fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 01:49
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So what was Holden's fall from grace? I've never paid attention to Exalted in recent years, save for knowing Holden was big on 3E and that he was also an RPG.net mod and now neither is true?
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Feb 10, 2018 02:19
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Dawgstar posted:an RPG.net mod Let’s do this some more.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:20
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Dawgstar posted:So what was Holden's fall from grace? I've never paid attention to Exalted in recent years, save for knowing Holden was big on 3E and that he was also an RPG.net mod and now neither is true? Basically, Holden and John Morke were developers on Exalted 3e, and they both were extremely committed to getting the whole thing perfect, and between that and various Real Life Problems like dying parents and horrible infections that looked a lot like cancer to the doctor, they were on track to get out around two books this decade. My general impression is that Holden and John were basically okay with this because they'd been told they could make "boutique" books and not be part of a supplement treadmill. Which is probably true, but Rich Thomas probably didn't actually mean "go ahead and take three years per book" and eventually things reached a crisis point where he said "okay, just give me whatever you have for Arms of the Chosen and I'm going to whip that into something publishable." At this point Holden and John refused to turn over their manuscripts, got fired, and Rich Thomas hired Robert Vance and Eric Minton as the new devs, and they rewrote the book from scratch and had it out as a PDF preview in four or five months. Meanwhile, Holden was very salty on social media about various contracts where he felt OPP was not holding their end up as far as paying him (I have heard a bunch of he-said-she-said about this, and my general impression is basically that the RPG industry has a really lackadaisical approach to contractual rigor, and that if you've spent three years making your boss hate the thought of dealing with you it can look an awful lot like deliberate malice), and made himself a public nuisance to a major game company to the point that RPGnet evidently decided they didn't want him as an official public face, and dropped him from the staff.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:27
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Rand Brittain posted:My general impression is that Holden and John were basically okay with this because they'd been told they could make "boutique" books and not be part of a supplement treadmill. Which is probably true, but Rich Thomas probably didn't actually mean "go ahead and take three years per book" and eventually things reached a crisis point where he said "okay, just give me whatever you have for Arms of the Chosen and I'm going to whip that into something publishable." Good heavens. That'd do it.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:34
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My understanding of Holden's pay arguments is basically that, the way OPP does business is that you get an amount of money when you start the book, and then an amount of money when you finish. And not only did Holden and Morke not write what they were expected to write in the timeframe they were expected to write it in, they spent lots of time writing a bunch of poo poo that they were not asked to write. So when Arms of the Chosen was finally published, and they weren't paid for the work that they didn't do, and the work they did but refused to deliver, they raised an even bigger stink online about how since the book was published anyway they were still due their final cut.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:48
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The other stuff I remember was mostly: a) some debate about extra words they wrote, which weren't published then, and thus were not paid for, but were published later, while they weren't under contract and thus were also not paid for, and b) Holden put himself down as editor for Miracles of the Solar Exalted, and while double-dipping on that is kind of hinky as a business practice they didn't feel the need to hire somebody else to edit it before they published it. The moral of the story is that you should always, always, get absolutely everything down in writing. (Arguably they should get paid something for all the time they spent working on Arms of the Chosen even if it wasn't published, but who knows what the agreement on that was. The whole mess is honestly a pretty good illustration of why half-now-half-on-publication doesn't work well for long-term projects like writing and development.)
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Feb 10, 2018 02:58
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Except you know, Holden is a shitheel? And we only have his word to take him to which I would like to direct your attention to my first point.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:03
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In other news. https://twitter.com/mayfairgames/status/962056135623626753
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Feb 10, 2018 03:18
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Has Mayfair made anything of their own in recent years, or were they just importing and translating eurogames?
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Feb 10, 2018 03:27
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is this bad? I only know Mayfair from Patchwork, which is a cool and good game.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:38
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It's bad-ish in the general sense that one company is acquiring more and more of what makes up their industry. I'm curious what this will mean at GenCon. Mayfair has been a big presence there.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:is this bad? I only know Mayfair from Patchwork, which is a cool and good game. It's bad. Mayfair has been a minor but consistent player in RPGs and boardgames for a long time. The back catalog is impresssive; a lot of late 80s/early 90s RPG supplements, both the Hammer's Slammers and Forever War wargame adaptions.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:49
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Sampatrick posted:EX3 is outselling the rest of OPP? When was this said? I’m just judging by drivethru ratings and how Arms has a higher sales rank than anything else by OPP that came out around the same date, and that it got to Platinum in a couple of days. Admittedly it’s not the best indicator, but given OPP seems to live on drivethru now it’s the best I can do Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 03:53
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Bedlamdan posted:I’m just judging by drivethru ratings and how Arms has a higher sales rank than anything else by OPP that came out, and that it got to Platinum in a couple of days. Admittedly it’s not the best indicator, but given OPP seems to live on drivethru now it’s the best I can do Doesn't most OPP stuff go platinum the day of release?
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Feb 10, 2018 04:04
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Kurieg posted:My understanding of Holden's pay arguments is basically that, the way OPP does business is that you get an amount of money when you start the book, and then an amount of money when you finish. as a note, this is literally the way I was paid for everything I was ever paid to write. As far as I can tell, OPP seems to be pretty solidly in the right here, even if their contract was lovely and stupid by not demanding end dates for products.
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Feb 10, 2018 04:05
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