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I get where you're coming from, most definitely (I had to rewatch the rap scenes a second time, because the first time through weren't translated) and you're right that what you say is definitely an undertone for the show. When I thought about how the show was presenting it, I could see reflections between Ryo and Miki K, as a sort of one sided romantic affection. To me it was pretty obvious that Akira was not necessarily into Ryo like that, and the two Miki's felt like a similar thing, to the point where while I could get the whole Miki K coming out thing narratively, Miki M was presented as far too sexless and angelic for me to get that from them in that moment. From a character like Miki M it felt almost out of place. I think I mentioned it in my overview before that I had issues with Miki's characterization and that the relations of the track team weren't gone into with enough depth. If there had been just one scene where Miki M goes to reassure or encourage Miki K and there's some form of signifier and confrontaion, even minor, that there could be something there, like there were multiple time with Ryo and Akira, it would have been easier for me to see. As it was, there was only the love/hate coin thing upon Miki K's confession. I guess most of my complaints basically come down to a narrative angle in how these things were presented to the audience. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 03:08
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Yeah. I'm not saying you can't criticize the execution. It's not the greatest love story ever told, I don't even like the relationship that much. There's just a difference between saying their relationship didn't come across very naturally and saying their relationship wasn't obviously romantic. The complaints you just listed are all totally valid and I agree with a lot of them.
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Feb 9, 2018 03:10
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Miki wanted to gently caress that spider and she is valid
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Feb 9, 2018 03:14
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Expect My Mom posted:Miki wanted to gently caress that spider and she is valid
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Feb 9, 2018 03:15
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Kokoro Wish posted:To me it was pretty obvious that Akira was not necessarily into Ryo like that, and the two Miki's felt like a similar thing, to the point where while I could get the whole Miki K coming out thing narratively, Miki M was presented as far too sexless and angelic for me to get that from them in that moment. From a character like Miki M it felt almost out of place. The main thing I took away from their exchange was that Miki knew that Miko hated her, and it was really devastating for her to hear Miko spell it out so explicitly. For me, at least, this reframes all of Miki's "sexless" behaviour into being really withdrawn. She is terrified of being rejected, and that's why her feelings only become apparent in that final scene.
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Feb 9, 2018 03:26
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RottenK posted:instead of yet another willfully dense motherfucker lets talk about Devilman Saga It is still ongoing as far as I know, but only the first volume is translated out there on the internet. I haven't read it yet cause I'm saving it for when I finish reading lady (which hoo boy that's a trip right there) but it looks interesting and I hope somebody gets to translating it soon.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:30
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neat i didn't know there was another devilman series running. is it another cycle?
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Feb 9, 2018 05:44
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Can we have a version of Devilman where Miki and Miko mash spider clams just to kill this cycle
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Feb 9, 2018 05:50
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Expect My Mom posted:Miki wanted to gently caress that spider and she is valid
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Feb 9, 2018 06:06
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I read the first volume of Devilman Grimoire and I really like it. It's very different so far (no Ryo, what the heck) but I like the witch stuff, Miki, and it's super gorey. Recommended!
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Feb 9, 2018 06:39
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Alan_Shore posted:I read the first volume of Devilman Grimoire and I really like it. It's very different so far (no Ryo, what the heck) but I like the witch stuff, Miki, and it's super gorey. Recommended! There is Asuka Himura the punk who is friends with Miko who resembles Ryo. There also is a villain named Ryo at the end of the series, but it's Zenon's human form not Satan and he looks diffrent. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 07:17
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Endorph posted:hell, what red blooded woman HASNT wanted to gently caress a spider  Optimal world Miki would be the cleaver-toting Go Nagai World one but she’s gay and fucks a spider tbh
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Feb 9, 2018 07:26
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Endorph posted:hell, what red blooded woman HASNT wanted to gently caress a spider Is this the suspension bridge effect I've heard about
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Feb 9, 2018 08:32
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Crabtree posted:We are never going to escape this time loop. it's god's punishment
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Feb 9, 2018 10:21
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tithin posted:Can we have a version of Devilman where Miki and Miko mash spider clams just to kill this cycle I feel like that's the natural outcome, if Ryo finally picks up the baton: everybody gets to gently caress and be happy.
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Feb 9, 2018 10:38
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Ryo will finally win when he realizes he just needs to get everyone together in a room banging each others brains out in a mass orgy.
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Feb 9, 2018 10:57
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Relin posted:neat i didn't know there was another devilman series running. is it another cycle? Devilman Saga takes place in the far off future of 2025, but this time demons take the form of techno-organic armor that take people over. First volume meanders for far too long reintroducing all the important characters in this new setting, and it ends on the Silene armor finally possessing someone. Protagonist has not become Devilman, nor even found the Amon armor yet. I went on a huge Devilman manga binge after watching Crybaby. Lots of mediocre to okay stories. Amon - Darkside of Devilman was pretty good. Violence Jack took some getting used to, but Shin Violence Jack was a massive acid trip. I still can't parse what the ending was supposed to mean. Shin Devilman - Ryo and Akira's totally bogus journey through time is a total waste of time. Neo Devilman - Anthology series with some stories written by Go Nagai. Decent, but uneven with so many different writing styles. Devilman Vs Getter Robo - Throwaway fluff. Devilman vs Hades was something I really liked, but it got cancelled after I felt it got good. Saving Devilman Lady for last. AtheistMantis fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 13:30
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Terper posted:Is this the suspension bridge effect I've heard about no its the giant strong monster women are hot effect
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Feb 9, 2018 14:27
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AtheistMantis posted:Devilman Saga takes place in the far off future of 2025, but this time demons take the form of techno-organic armor that take people over. First volume meanders for far too long reintroducing all the important characters in this new setting, and it ends on the Silene armor finally possessing someone. Protagonist has not become Devilman, nor even found the Amon armor yet. Here's a suggestiong for devilman lady: don't.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:33
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Go for Devilman Grimoire instead.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:54
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My Devilman Lady suggestion is to read it and judge for yourself, if you want to
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Feb 9, 2018 15:44
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Nina posted:
Still loving how she decapitated Jinmen immediately. Go Nagai World was very good.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:16
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Feb 9, 2018 16:18
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Kokoro Wish posted:I tell my close friends I love them all the time. Doesn't mean I want to have a romantic relationship with all of them. There's alot of different types of love. It’s kind of patronizing to tout multiple types of love as some revelation. Like drat, that’s a realization that young children have, you really think anyone responding to you wouldn’t know that?
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Feb 9, 2018 16:31
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Honest bias disclaimer: I distinctly remember watching this scene for the first time and while looking at the action I just heard the words and self-translated and did not read the subtitles. I only went back to it because of the thread. This is the scene and dialogue that makes the translation argument. Miki actually just says "Me too!", which imo is ambiguous enough combined with her earlier response to the previous Miko "I love you" to interpret her as wanting to be friends but rejecting the romantic confession. As a reminder, in the other case her response was "I know. I thought you were cool back then, and I like you". Miko love count: 2, Miki love count: 0. Given the context of impending apocalypse I'm sure this is about as polite of a confession rejection as you can get.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:11
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The real spider was koda who ate his lover while loving him
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Feb 9, 2018 18:31
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AnacondaHL posted:Honest bias disclaimer: I distinctly remember watching this scene for the first time and while looking at the action I just heard the words and self-translated and did not read the subtitles. I only went back to it because of the thread. Saying "Watashi mo" to "Atashi daisuki" in a big, climatic, tense, emotional moment isn't that vauge imo, especially when right after they do a mirror exercise of "I love running!" "I love it too!", unless you want to say that Miki M doesn't reciprocate her intense feelings for running too
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Feb 9, 2018 18:54
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Expect My Mom posted:The Japanese language is extremely context heavy, things will often not be repeated if they were already said as it assumes everyone in the conversation so far knows what's going happen. Weird to throw in this straw man while simultaneously noting that context matters. Idle chatter about running is not contextually relevant to the romantic confession during the apocalypse.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:13
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I would say it's very relevant, as it's the next line of dialogue after they say I love and leads into the Passing the Baton metaphor and both of them dying, not thirty seconds after the confession
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Feb 9, 2018 19:17
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Expect My Mom posted:I would say it's very relevant, as it's the next line of dialogue after they say I love and leads into the Passing the Baton metaphor and both of them dying, not thirty seconds after the confession oook. Then the answer is yes. There is a difference in meaning between saying "Me too!" in response to loving running, and "Me too!" when riding on the back of the spider friend that just confessed romantic feelings for you and is attempting to save your life. ...this difference exists in English too...
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Feb 9, 2018 19:26
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I feel like that devalues what Running means to the two. Something they've done since childhood, Miko saying that she was always running after Miki. It's not just saying I like running as a hobby! It's them acknowleging how much this shared activity meant to each other, how they've overcome the gap in their relationship and are running again, right when they need to the most. Nothing kept them apart, no matter all that's changed, they are still here running together. Miko's last words before she's shot and the two are physically separated forever and killed is "I'm glad we ran." In this scene, saying they loved running is the same as saying I love you when riding on the back of the spider friend that just confessed romantic feelings for you and is attempting to save your life.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:32
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Fair enough, I do devalue the running metaphors, so I can see that as a point for the Miki loves Miko back stance.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:42
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Yeah I feel the running metaphor isn't as fleshed out as it could be despite it being reoccurring, it isn't like they make it and drop it, but still
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Feb 9, 2018 19:53
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When Princess Leia tells Han Solo "I love you", he responds, "I know." Is Han Solo gay?
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Feb 9, 2018 20:02
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100 degrees Calcium posted:When Princess Leia tells Han Solo "I love you", he responds, "I know." Is Han Solo gay?
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Feb 9, 2018 20:18
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months long space flights with only a wookie for companionship and the only guy you see when you touch the ground being jabba, hell, id gently caress the wookie too
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Feb 9, 2018 20:18
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*c3po voice* let the wookie gently caress
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Feb 9, 2018 20:52
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Endorph posted:all im saying is theres no way han didnt gently caress chewie just to see what it was like This life debt is getting worse the more I hear about it.
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Feb 9, 2018 21:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znJrD9xt_og
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Feb 9, 2018 21:11
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Expect My Mom posted:Yeah I feel the running metaphor isn't as fleshed out as it could be despite it being reoccurring, it isn't like they make it and drop it, but still Passing the baton is basically a metaphor for saving the world in the finale, so I think you've hit the nail on the head. These people love running in a way we normal people can't fathom. It's like Vin Diesel's love for cars in The Fast and the Furious. He doesn't love cars like a normal person, not even like a big car nerd. There is some intense "I can't live without cars"-type situation going on there. 100 degrees Calcium posted:When Princess Leia tells Han Solo "I love you", he responds, "I know." Is Han Solo gay? Let's not forget that Han Solo is a real piece of poo poo. His love confession sucks. edit: Also, obviously he hosed the Wookie. That soundtrack could make anything sound badass. 
And More fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 23:13
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