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Condiv posted:tbh, i'm kinda surprised how spineless the dems are being wrt dreamers.for all their banging on about caring about immigrants and immigration, when the rubber met the road they've abandoned them totally Gotta pick up them moderate Republicans
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Feb 9, 2018 11:55
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The obvious lesson to learn from the DACA crisis and Obamacare as well is to never accept half assed Democratic half measures because the Democrats don't deserve the trust they ask for. DACA could have been handled prior to the 2010 elections and Obamacare could have been crafted in a way that didn't allow the Republicans to sabotage it but they were too cowardly to do either and promised things would be fixed or better changes would come. Now we have a registry of illegal immigrants handed over to a cadre of white supremacists and the ACA has been systematically destroyed after having to have people swarm the capital begging the Republicans not to gently caress it over 100% three times in the last year. The DACA issue is even more atrocious since that was something they requested the Dreamers to take a chance on based on trusting their supposed allies and they have been all but abandoned. Every rich Democratic politician should be using whatever money they've acquired while in office (or after in Obama's case) to personally fund an underground railroad to help those people to Canada or something since they are powerless to do anything in actual government due to their gently caress ups in the past. Instead they are just going to let it happen then use their plight to get re-elected then do nothing to help again since they won't ever have 60 Senate votes (lol Manchin will always vote no even in that fantastic scenario).
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Feb 9, 2018 12:56
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https://twitter.com/borenbears/status/961931988520329216 Now why would this be a concern all of a sudden? 
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Feb 9, 2018 14:04
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Nevvy Z posted:I assume that is a child? No. Just an Asian person.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:12
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Radish posted:The obvious lesson to learn from the DACA crisis and Obamacare as well is to never accept half assed Democratic half measures because the Democrats don't deserve the trust they ask for. DACA could have been handled prior to the 2010 elections and Obamacare could have been crafted in a way that didn't allow the Republicans to sabotage it but they were too cowardly to do either and promised things would be fixed or better changes would come. Now we have a registry of illegal immigrants handed over to a cadre of white supremacists and the ACA has been systematically destroyed after having to have people swarm the capital begging the Republicans not to gently caress it over 100% three times in the last year. The DACA issue is even more atrocious since that was something they requested the Dreamers to take a chance on based on trusting their supposed allies and they have been all but abandoned. You honestly think Canada, who has the kind of "merit-based" immigration system that US conservatives masturbate to, will take the Dreamers? http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29594642 Anyway... I agree that the Democrats have really bungled handling of the Dreamers. You can't keep acting as if they're the most important thing in the world to you and then not using every single kind of obstructionist tactic to follow up on that rhetoric. I think the leadership is still stuck in this old idea of "we need to be the only adults in the room," when the American public and many of the youth voters the Democrats needs to flood the ballot lines are beyond that 2008-era optimism and just want to see someone who can fight for change. Older people may just be too stuck to the idea that "there are good Republicans out there," even though no one with anything to lose in that party has spoken out against Trump or Trump's supporters. I don't think you gain anything politically by calling someone a "Deplorable," but from a strategic and tactical standpoint, I think you gain even less by thinking they're redeemable.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:21
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Condiv posted:tbh, i'm kinda surprised how spineless the dems are being wrt dreamers.for all their banging on about caring about immigrants and immigration, when the rubber met the road they've abandoned them totally I'm not. loving over the dreamers was always going to be the easier way out.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:37
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I've never missed a VA Senate election since I became eligible to vote in the early 2000s, but I think I am sitting out my first one this November. I'll still vote for my Democratic representative in the House because he's at least been passable, but gently caress Tim Kaine. I'm angry enough that I hope he loses.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:39
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B B posted:I've never missed a VA Senate election since I became eligible to vote in the early 2000s, but I think I am sitting out my first one this November. I'll still vote for my Democratic representative in the House, but gently caress Tim Kaine. I'm angry enough that I hope he loses. Are you sure that the Democrats in Virginia will take that as a sign that they should go further left and not, say, double down on centrism? And if you better be willing to eat what a GOP senator is going to force down your throat. I think Kaine is a pretty accurate reflection of the kind of voter that has turned Virginia into a Democrat state in recent years. Highly educated, suburban voters who have more compassion than Republicans but aren't so altruistic that they will screw themselves economically.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:43
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Brony Car posted:Are you sure that the Democrats in Virginia will take that as a sign that they should go further left and not, say, double down on centrism? My partner is an immigrant, and one of her parents is undocumented. Democrats just gave up their only leverage on the DACA issue, because two leaders on the other side who regularly lie to members of their own party pinkie-sweared them that they'd consider an immigration bill. It's kind of a personal issue, and I'm all out of fucks to give--especially for Senate dems.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:48
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B B posted:I've never missed a VA Senate election since I became eligible to vote in the early 2000s, but I think I am sitting out my first one this November. I'll still vote for my Democratic representative in the House because he's at least been passable, but gently caress Tim Kaine. I'm angry enough that I hope he loses. vote for a third party or write in. it at least sends a stronger message than not voting at all though then again, the dems seem hellbent on ignoring the messages they've been receiving loudly since 2016...
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Feb 9, 2018 14:56
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Make sure to write him a pissed off letter too. Maybe even call in to his office.
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Feb 9, 2018 15:01
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Condiv posted:vote for a third party or write in. it at least sends a stronger message than not voting at all I think this is what the rich donors are telling them to do.
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Feb 9, 2018 15:02
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Hey, so yeah, this happened yesterday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI50FRztBa8&t=50s Jump to the 0:50 mark if the link doesn't go there automatically. A literal Nazi is running unopposed on the Republican ticket in the 3rd district of Illinois and is going to get into Congress if the Dems don't put someone up that beats him in the general election. 
Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 15:03
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B B posted:It's kind of a personal issue, and I'm all out of fucks to give--especially for Senate dems. Okay. gently caress the Senate Dems, but do you think you’re going to be better off if the Senate stays in the hands of the GOP?
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Feb 9, 2018 15:09
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lol the entire Democratic Party is quislings
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Feb 9, 2018 15:15
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Yeah I know my Canada plan would not work it's just general frustration at Democrats getting richer while the people they convinced to trust them get hosed. 
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Feb 9, 2018 15:29
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Brony Car posted:Okay. gently caress the Senate Dems, but do you think you’re going to be better off if the Senate stays in the hands of the GOP? Like it or not, everybody's got a line that once it's crossed, can't justify supporting the lesser evil anymore. For some it was the bank bailouts while the rest of the country was left to rot, or war on terror, or prosecuting whistle-blowers, or the drone strikes, or just the realization that the Democrats will never fight for you or anyone you care about and at best they are a speed bump for the people that actively want to hurt you. Now for many it's the Dreamers. You have a line somewhere too I would imagine unless you agree wholeheartedly with Republican policy. Edit Oh yeah or Trans-Pacific Partnership: NAFTA Harder during an election year because your party smugly thinks that voters have no where else to go. Iron Twinkie fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 15:30
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lol the entire Democratic Party is quislings No. Just a huge chunk of them that we need to primary.
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Feb 9, 2018 15:33
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Brony Car posted:Okay. gently caress the Senate Dems, but do you think you’re going to be better off if the Senate stays in the hands of the GOP? how does voting for people who will let the GOP do whatever it wants and will help make sure the dem party never elects someone that will do anything worthwhile help him? maybe the top dems who are holding the party back and insisting it's ok for the dems to abandon dreamers and vote for republican attempts to roll back roe v wade need to be ejected from the party so that the party can turn into something that helps people instead of helps republicans Condiv fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 15:34
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Iron Twinkie posted:Like it or not, everybody's got a line that once it's crossed, can't justify supporting the lesser evil anymore. For some it was the bank bailouts while the rest of the country was left to rot, or war on terror, or prosecuting whistle-blowers, or the drone strikes, or just the realization that the Democrats will never fight for you or anyone you care about and at best they are a speed bump for the people that actively want to hurt you. Now for many it's the Dreamers. You have a line somewhere too I would imagine unless you agree wholeheartedly with Republican policy. Okay, but what do you do then? I understand refusing to support the lesser evil, but what do you decide to do after that? I don’t think he or anyone else really wants to give up on the fight to change this country for the better, but just saying “I’ll never vote Democrat again,” isn’t going to get us closer to anything but continued Republican dominance. If you want to primary people like Kaine, then I think that’s a more concrete next step. If you want to try to form a third party, then at least say so, but alternative choices don’t just magically come out of nowhere.
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Feb 9, 2018 15:36
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don’t vote for the quislings would be my recommendation
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Feb 9, 2018 15:37
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Brony Car posted:Okay, but what do you do then? I understand refusing to support the lesser evil, but what do you decide to do after that? I don’t think he or anyone else really wants to give up on the fight to change this country for the better, but just saying “I’ll never vote Democrat again,” isn’t going to get us closer to anything but continued Republican dominance. he literally said he's voting for democrats, just only the ones that help him. he didn't at all say he was disconnecting entirely from the party, just that he's not voting for every dem in every race
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Feb 9, 2018 15:37
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Brony Car posted:Are you sure that the Democrats in Virginia will take that as a sign that they should go further left and not, say, double down on centrism? Are you a time traveler from 2016?
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Feb 9, 2018 15:39
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https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/961965086725279744 i thought pelosi was supposed to be a marvelous whip
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Feb 9, 2018 15:44
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Condiv posted:he literally said he's voting for democrats, just only the ones that help him. he didn't at all say he was disconnecting entirely from the party, just that he's not voting for every dem in every race Fair enough, but deciding to opt out of the Senate race is still a big move to me. Kobayashi posted:Are you a time traveler from 2016? I don’t think my questions have been answered since 2016. I don’t want to make too many excuses for the Democrat since I think they could still be making stands they aren’t making that would look bad in the short term but would help the party on the long term. I just get distressed when I see voters get alienated and opt out of the process when it’s more important than ever to stay engaged. The more voters pick and choose when they decide to be involved and when they don’t, the less consistent policy we get from government and the more we have these horrific party flips which end up keeping the professional political survivors who avoid real stands in our government while the ones who actually take a real stand end up getting bounced out after one term.
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Feb 9, 2018 15:52
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Hey, so yeah, this happened yesterday. I hate Illinois nazis.
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Feb 9, 2018 15:58
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Brony Car posted:Fair enough, but deciding to opt out of the Senate race is still a big move to me. Close, but no potato
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Feb 9, 2018 16:01
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Brony Car posted:Okay. gently caress the Senate Dems, but do you think you’re going to be better off if the Senate stays in the hands of the GOP? Probably not, but I have lost faith in Tim Kaine and want new representation in the Senate. If the Virginia Democratic Party weren't such a cesspool and so focused on candidates waiting their turn (see: establishment Virginia Democrats' response to Tom Periello's primary challenge of Ralph Northam), maybe Tim Kaine would have faced a primary challenge that would have caused him to actually reconsider maybe having a backbone sometimes. You're right that I'll be worse off in the short term (and, yeah, 6 years is a long time), but I want Tim Kaine's political career to be over. He and Mark Warner are pretty good examples of everything that is wrong with the Democratic Party. Case in point: I called Mark Warner's D.C. office yesterday to ask why he was supporting the 2-year budget deal. His staffer talked about "the process" and "importance of compromise" for a few minutes before I interrupted him and asked what Warner was actually *doing* to protect Dreamers. He pointed me to Warner's website and told me to watch his floor speeches. loving floor speeches. Hey Dreamers: when ICE comes, just load up Warner's floor speeches on your iPhone. They count as citizenship papers! Condiv posted:vote for a third party or write in. it at least sends a stronger message than not voting at all I am still planning to vote, btw. I will probably just vote only for my representative in the House (Don Beyer). He sucks on a lot of stuff, but at least he voted no on this stupid budget deal. I have also been calling the offices of Beyer, Kaine, and Warner on a daily basis to let them know how important this issue is to me. Beyer's the only one who voted the way he should have, and he's the only one I'm voting for next chance I get. B B fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 16:06
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Brony Car posted:Fair enough, but deciding to opt out of the Senate race is still a big move to me. it is a big move, but one that must be made the current state of the dem party is untenable, and senators like tim kaine are fighting to keep it that way. they're freezing out new blood who could reform the party, putting their thumbs on the scale for awful dems who vote to roll back roe v wade, and more the party has to be wrested from them at any cost and as fast as possible.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:07
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Kaine and Warner both suck rear end and Virginia deserves better. I wish they would get primaried but I'm not naive enough to think that would happen. It's frustrating as hell that the people now saying that the Dreamers were always hosed were telling people three weeks ago to stop being broke brained whiners when we realized they were already screwed and the Democrats had given up and were pissed. To every person saying "voting Democratic in 2016 would have saved the Dreamers" or "you need to keep voting Democrat in order to help them" remember that as long as the Democrats aren't willing to whip "moderate" Democrats like Manchin or go nuclear and break the filibuster a majority of them in both Houses and the Presidency isn't enough to give them permanent help and would just keep them in their current state where any Republican president can gently caress them at his or her whim. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 16:10
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Radish posted:Kaine and Warner both suck rear end and Virginia deserves better. I wish they would get primaried but I'm not naive enough to think that would happen. I'm not naive enough to think it will happen, either, which is why I am trying to actually get Kaine out so we can get new blood. If the Democrats we have in office aren't actually going to vote in a away that is in line with their stated principles, their stated principles aren't actually worth anything.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:12
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Lmao at people in this thread telling a desperate man he is a hostage and should love it.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:15
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B B posted:I'm not naive enough to think it will happen, either, which is why I am trying to actually get Kaine out so we can get new blood. If the Democrats we have in office aren't actually going to vote in a away that is in line with their stated principles, their stated principles aren't actually worth anything. Their stated principles are absolutely worthless I agree. They really like having just enough of a credible reason to not do poo poo so they can pretend they stand for something other than keeping their job but not having to actually do anything. The entire party leadership needs to be gutted.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:17
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Brony Car posted:Fair enough, but deciding to opt out of the Senate race is still a big move to me. Telling someone they should still, ultimately, vote for the lesser evil in some lovely Democrat is making excuses for Democrats though. Facist Republicans already control the government, one less vote for a do-nothing bad Democrat isn’t going to change that.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:36
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Condiv posted:https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/961965086725279744 Oh my dude, no. She didn't even try to whip. Pelosi put on a nice piece of political theater, but then later backed down from putting any pressure on her colleagues to vote against the deal.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:37
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The Democrats are just a pressure release valve to prevent an honest to God socialist shitstorm from lynching all the bankers. Their only job is to occasionally moderate Republican excess enough that the number of people willing to start robbing banks and building bombs stays manageable.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:40
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That they didn’t even whip this seems completely hosed. They’ve completely hosed the Dreamers over
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Feb 9, 2018 16:48
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Beto O'Rourke voted on this, by the way. You know, the guy running against Ted Cruz. In Texas.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:50
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If your reaction when somebody decides that some dem (or even the party as a whole) is too goddamn lovely for them to support is to petulently fall back on lesser evilism you're a goddamn dingus, because there's another problem here that's millions of times bigger, and that is that the dem leadership is doing poo poo that causes people to be turned off in the first place and they don't get that lesser evilism doesn't loving work.
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Feb 9, 2018 17:05
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Fans posted:That they didn’t even whip this seems completely hosed. They’ve completely hosed the Dreamers over Not surprising when schumer said it was a lossing issue and would sit on the backburner until november if the dems take control.
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Feb 9, 2018 17:11
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