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Fans posted:That they didn’t even whip this seems completely hosed. They’ve completely hosed the Dreamers over They can do whatever they like as long as they have enough people in all the right places to bend their value system entirely around whatever decisions Democrats in congress make as the right one by default.
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Feb 9, 2018 17:15
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I just called the Democratic Party of Virginia to see what their thoughts are on Kaine and Warner's votes. Their staffer said that there was another side to the issue, and that shutting down the government would have had too negative an impact on military and Virginia families. So, yeah, I am done. B B fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 17:27
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B B posted:I just called the Democratic Party of Virginia to see what their thoughts are on Kaine and Warner's votes. Their staffer said that there was another side to the issue, and that shutting down the government would have had too negative an impact on military and Virginia families. disgusting. what other side? the deport all immigrants side?
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Feb 9, 2018 17:31
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Condiv posted:disgusting. what other side? the deport all immigrants side?
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Feb 9, 2018 17:44
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Dead Reckoning posted:Shutting down the government has costs, for NIH researchers, for the CDC, for the EPA, the people who administer Medicaid, and dozens of other important government institutions. I know of a project to remediate groundwater at a superfund site that keeps getting delayed due to the shutdowns. Even if you assume the Republicans aren't ever going to cut a deal on DREAMers, there is literally nothing the Dems can do to force them as the minority party. Unlike the death cult wing of the GOP, Dems actually want a working government, so what purpose does shutting down the government serve? Not everyone thinks DREAMers are literally more important than every other issue. Shutdown brinksmanship works for the Freedom Caucus because for them & their voters, never having a working government is far more tolerable. It's also literally the only leverage Democrats have to protect a vulnerable group of people they have professed to care about for years, and they didn't even actually try to use it.
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Feb 9, 2018 17:49
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Brony Car posted:I don’t want to make too many excuses for the Democrat since I think they could still be making stands they aren’t making that would look bad in the short term but would help the party on the long term. I just get distressed when I see voters get alienated and opt out of the process when it’s more important than ever to stay engaged. While I personally disagree with the decision to not vote Democratic in the general, not voting does not mean not being engaged. You can be engaged and not vote. And, probably more importantly, the ultimate source of this sort of thing isn't "people making bad decisions," but rather "the Democratic Party behaving in ways that make people not want to vote for them." When people focus on the individuals who are choosing not to vote, it makes me extremely skeptical about what their real intentions are, because such an action is a lot more consistent with "wanting to feel more correct in an argument" than "wanting to actually change things in a way that makes more people vote."
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Feb 9, 2018 17:50
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All this will teach nonwhite people is that a white supremacist government cannot be trusted, no matter if the democrats or republicans are in charge
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Feb 9, 2018 17:57
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B B posted:It's also literally the only leverage Democrats have to protect a vulnerable group of people they have professed to care about for years, and they didn't even actually try to use it.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:17
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Dead Reckoning posted:That "leverage" is actually "loving up vital government services until we get what we want on DREAMers." The logical endpoint of that strategy is becoming "the party of No" and encouraging Republicans to make as bigly a mess as possible of the government so that Dems can use the Goldfish like memory of the electorate to run on a platform of Republican failures. This is probably fine if you're on the "single payer and amnesty for illegal immigrants or death", no-compromise, burn-it-all-down train, but one party's elected officials pursuing the most ideologically and electorally satisfying strategy instead of being decent stewards of the government was the thing I and a lot of other people shat on the Republicans for doing during the Obama administration. Weren't you a Republican?
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Feb 9, 2018 18:20
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Kinda hosed up your issue with Republicans is how they act and not their actual aims. If the Democrats spent their entire time saying no to lovely Republican policies that sounds like a superb use of their time.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:21
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Dead Reckoning posted:Shutting down the government has costs, for NIH researchers, for the CDC, for the EPA, the people who administer Medicaid, and dozens of other important government institutions. I know of a project to remediate groundwater at a superfund site that keeps getting delayed due to the shutdowns. Even if you assume the Republicans aren't ever going to cut a deal on DREAMers, there is literally nothing the Dems can do to force them as the minority party. Unlike the death cult wing of the GOP, Dems actually want a working government, so what purpose does shutting down the government serve? [B Yes we know you hate people that are not white. None of this matters since we are all dead soon. Fans posted:Kinda hosed up your issue with Republicans is how they act and not their actual aims. He is a literal nazi.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:21
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Nonsense posted:Weren't you a Republican? Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 18:22
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Dead Reckoning posted:I know this may come as a shock to some, but being to the right of D&D does not a Republican make. Though apparently centrist Democrats are just as bad these days. REally it neans that the person probably shoukd be sent to a prison camp to improve their demeanor.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:25
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We HAVE to start using the primary system to get rid of these failure democrats.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:25
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Dead Reckoning posted:I know this may come as a shock to some, but being to the right of D&D does not a Republican make. Though apparently centrist Democrats are just as bad these days. Lmao you vote republican because you value guns over living humans.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:25
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Reminder that Dead Reckoning wanted to get rid of the 14th amendment because it was helping too many undocumented immigrants.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:26
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Mr Hootington posted:Lmao you vote republican because you value guns over living humans. That's totally unfair. Racism is also a contributing factor and shouldn't be forgotten.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:27
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Fans posted:If the Democrats spent their entire time saying no to lovely Republican policies that sounds like a superb use of their time.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:27
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I can't even believe people are still trotting out the weak rear end "lesser of two evils" thing. I believed in it. Guess what? It isn't inspiring. It doesn't work. It forces you to constantly concede and slide further to the right. It isn't politically effective. Yet, there's such a huge chunk of the Democratic party that has operated with this being their primary strategy for so long, they are incapable of thinking any other way. And they've trained their loyal voters to think this way too, so they're almost as intransigent as Fox New viewers. If your reaction to a person facing personal strife from policy that Democrats are too scared to attack, is to tut-tut about the importance of that person's vote to maintaining a broken status quo, you are lacking in basic empathy for your fellow man and also lacking the introspection to understand why people don't bother to vote in giant droves. But I guess the moderate white who can't make up his or her mind about how racist they want to be that election is a more important demographic, somehow.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:28
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Oh for Gods sake vote, and when you aren't voting then get involved in activism and clearing out the deadwood in the democratic party. Not voting changes nothing and perpetuates the current situation even more than voting for the dems
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Feb 9, 2018 18:34
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Dead Reckoning posted:And if the cost of that intransigence included, say, a freeze on all federal environmental remediation efforts and leaving national parks untended until voters put D's back in power, you would consider that acceptable? it is not our fault that the subject refused to obey orders, DR. sometimes you just have to act out of self defense.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:37
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Feldegast42 posted:Oh for Gods sake vote, and when you aren't voting then get involved in activism and clearing out the deadwood in the democratic party. Not voting changes nothing and perpetuates the current situation even more than voting for the dems
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Feb 9, 2018 18:38
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Look into your closest chapter of Democratic Socialists of America. At least the one I attend is pretty straightforward about the goal of gutting the Democratic party, hollowing it out and taking it over from the inside with progressives by primarying every centrist corporate-cock sucking waste of time in the face of problems for real people. Not gonna hold my breath for their goals of full-bore socialism but I'll work with them on the primarying process and it's actually a tangible, real-world solution to do stuff like tail-light replacement programs, kicking slumlords poo poo in with the courts and pounding the pavement/knocking on doors for candidates.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:39
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Dead Reckoning posted:I know this may come as a shock to some, but being to the right of D&D does not a Republican make. Though apparently being a centrist Democrat is just as bad these days. It always has been. PRIMARY BAD DEMS 
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Feb 9, 2018 18:40
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The Left's field of political battle is the Democratic National Committee. National extraparty politics are a secondary concern.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:45
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Condiv posted:tbh, i'm kinda surprised how spineless the dems are being wrt dreamers.for all their banging on about caring about immigrants and immigration, when the rubber met the road they've abandoned them totally Democrats don't even put up anything resembling opposition with a divided government, why would anyone be surprised if they cave when they have almost 0 power whatsoever?
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Feb 9, 2018 18:49
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Dead Reckoning posted:And if the cost of that intransigence included, say, a freeze on all federal environmental remediation efforts and leaving national parks untended until voters put D's back in power, you would consider that acceptable? I mean yes? Those don’t stack up anywhere close to hundreds of thousands of people being deported or losing their healthcare.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:53
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bird food bathtub posted:Look into your closest chapter of Democratic Socialists of America. At least the one I attend is pretty straightforward about the goal of gutting the Democratic party, hollowing it out and taking it over from the inside with progressives by primarying every centrist corporate-cock sucking waste of time in the face of problems for real people. Actually, yeah, I think this is what I am going to do. I've been eyeing the D.C. chapter for a while, and I am finally fed up enough with the Dems that I am going to go to a meeting to feel it out.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:54
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InnercityGriot posted:I can't even believe people are still trotting out the weak rear end "lesser of two evils" thing. I believed in it. Guess what? It isn't inspiring. It doesn't work. It forces you to constantly concede and slide further to the right. It isn't politically effective. Yet, there's such a huge chunk of the Democratic party that has operated with this being their primary strategy for so long, they are incapable of thinking any other way. And they've trained their loyal voters to think this way too, so they're almost as intransigent as Fox New viewers. If your reaction to a person facing personal strife from policy that Democrats are too scared to attack, is to tut-tut about the importance of that person's vote to maintaining a broken status quo, you are lacking in basic empathy for your fellow man and also lacking the introspection to understand why people don't bother to vote in giant droves. But I guess the moderate white who can't make up his or her mind about how racist they want to be that election is a more important demographic, somehow. this is why revolutionary/insurrectionist politics will always actually matter more.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:55
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Dead Reckoning posted:I know this may come as a shock to some, but being to the right of D&D does not a Republican make. Though apparently being a centrist Democrat is just as bad these days. Centrist dems are just republicans that aren't openly racist
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Feb 9, 2018 18:55
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Terror Sweat posted:Centrist dems are just republicans that aren't openly racist 
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Feb 9, 2018 18:55
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Also yeah the vote that matters is that primary vote. Vote for whoever is in the national and pour your energy into making sure these fucks lose their chance next time if necessary.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:56
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Feldegast42 posted:Oh for Gods sake vote, and when you aren't voting then get involved in activism and clearing out the deadwood in the democratic party. Not voting changes nothing and perpetuates the current situation even more than voting for the dems The average Dem loves the deadwood in the party. We're where we are because the average Democrat is a complete political dipshit with the memory of a concussed goldfish.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:03
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we're currently in a global crisis on multiple levels caused by the inherent contradictions of capitalism and the lie that politicians work for us, abandon both bourgeoisie parties and embrace a bottom-up system like democratic confederalism that actually works for the people by the people.
Kanine fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 19:06
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InnercityGriot posted:I can't even believe people are still trotting out the weak rear end "lesser of two evils" thing. I believed in it. Guess what? It isn't inspiring. It doesn't work. It forces you to constantly concede and slide further to the right. It isn't politically effective. Yet, there's such a huge chunk of the Democratic party that has operated with this being their primary strategy for so long, they are incapable of thinking any other way. And they've trained their loyal voters to think this way too, so they're almost as intransigent as Fox New viewers. If your reaction to a person facing personal strife from policy that Democrats are too scared to attack, is to tut-tut about the importance of that person's vote to maintaining a broken status quo, you are lacking in basic empathy for your fellow man and also lacking the introspection to understand why people don't bother to vote in giant droves. But I guess the moderate white who can't make up his or her mind about how racist they want to be that election is a more important demographic, somehow. This is the thing - even from a purely pragmatic perspective, it doesn't make sense to focus on the people who aren't voting instead of the party apparatus that makes decisions that make them not want to vote. It would be one thing if someone made a "it's still best to vote to prevent GOP control" argument alongside a much bigger argument about why it's the Democratic Party's fault for not motivating people to vote, but that's almost never the case. These folks almost always solely focus on voters rather than the party. They might grudgingly admit that the party is flawed, but that isn't the thing they choose to focus on. This is because, as I mentioned before, their main goal isn't to actually cause material change - it's to feel correct in arguments.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:09
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For those of you wondering why Schumer has been working so closely with McConnell on this.quote:WASHINGTON — A group of Latino and immigration rights activists protested Tuesday over what the group is calling Sen. Chuck Schumer’s (D-N.Y.) “Latino problem,” denouncing the lawmaker’s “extreme” positions on immigration reform.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:11
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Schumer is such trash. It's an embarrassment he's the leader of the Senate.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:20
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Schumer's literally, unironically a racist Zionist
Frijolero fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 19:21
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Remember whne he was a good pick to replace reid? Me either
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Feb 9, 2018 19:29
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Isn't the majority/minority leaders just the people who have served the longest from each party.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:33
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