|
Why weren't the Native Americans struck by Black Death and other Yersenia Pestes diseases?* *I am aware that there is new research on the great Aztec epidemic but I don't know what.
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 02:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 19:53 |
|
|
Iirc it was smallpox
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 02:44
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Iirc it was smallpox It might be something else I wish I remembered where i saw new research.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 02:47
|
|
|
I'm just going from 1491.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 02:48
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Here's a video describing another extremely weird Roman tradition, Lupercalia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ZGSpQaw3A I guess it's still less weird than letting a bunch of bulls chase you through narrow streets.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 02:53
|
|
|
It was like every single one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 02:53
|
|
|
Baron Porkface posted:Why weren't the Native Americans struck by Black Death and other Yersenia Pestes diseases?* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_plague_of_1900%E2%80%931904
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 02:54
|
|
|
Baron Porkface posted:Why weren't the Native Americans struck by Black Death and other Yersenia Pestes diseases?* There simply weren't enough people or animals that came over from Europe carrying it in a way that would end up infecting the natives.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 03:18
|
|
|
Baron Porkface posted:Why weren't the Native Americans struck by Black Death and other Yersenia Pestes diseases?* Luck? Who knows. It didn't manage to get transmitted to the New World until comparatively recently. Smallpox was transmitted by asymptomatic human carriers + the fact it stays viable outside the body for quite a while, the plague doesn't really lend itself to either of those. One of the major transmission vectors was/is fleas on rats, and ships certainly had their fair share of rats, so it does seem a little strange it took so long for enough flea-covered-rats to cross that it finally got transmitted but.. I'm not an epidemiologist or a biologist so what the gently caress do I know? quote:*I am aware that there is new research on the great Aztec epidemic but I don't know what. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoliztli_epidemics TL;DR, Some mystery disease which might have been an indigenous viral hemorrhagic fever that had an unusually severe outbreak due to drought, but new research suggests it might have been a strain of salmonella?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 03:22
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:TL;DR, Some mystery disease which might have been an indigenous viral hemorrhagic fever that had an unusually severe outbreak due to drought, but new research suggests it might have been a strain of salmonella?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 03:42
|
|
|
Does anyone have a reliable source on gladiators doing product endorsements? Everything I find from a quick google talks about how the movie Gladiator removed an endorsement scene from their script, with no references to any actual endorsements in the historical record.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 03:54
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Were non-roman soldiers taught commands in Latin or did officers use a local language? All commands were done in Latin. Governors were supposed to only be in a province for a year at a time so there wouldn't have been much point in learning local languages. They had a staff (a surprisingly tiny staff, especially early on) which would handle all that sort of thing. Some of the governors who ended up controlling provinces for very long terms... I dunno. I'd imagine you might pick up a little just by exposure? But the Ptolemys apparently ruled Egypt for 300 years before one of them even bothered learning Egyptian so who knows.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 05:00
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Some of the governors who ended up controlling provinces for very long terms... I dunno. I'd imagine you might pick up a little just by exposure? But the Ptolemys apparently ruled Egypt for 300 years before one of them even bothered learning Egyptian so who knows. If you're governor of Egypt, pretty much all your exposure is to Roman officials/Italian merchants/agents of equestrian owned shipping companies, who know Latin, and Alexandrian nobles/priests/city leaders, who know Greek, so you're not going to be running into a lot of Coptic speakers
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 05:21
|
|
|
Yeah you're definitely not going to in the east since everyone speaks Greek. I could maybe imagine someone in rear end end of nowhere like Britain having at least a little exposure to the local language. I'm sure there were governors now and then who took an interest in their province and wanted to learn about it, including language. But to the original question, there would have been no compulsion for leaders to learn local languages. You have people for that. The army did gradually start speaking its own weird Latin variant that incorporated a lot of barbarian words though. If you were the sort of general who had a close relationship to your rank and file, you might learn some of that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 05:29
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:Luck? Who knows. It didn't manage to get transmitted to the New World until comparatively recently. Smallpox was transmitted by asymptomatic human carriers + the fact it stays viable outside the body for quite a while, the plague doesn't really lend itself to either of those. One of the major transmission vectors was/is fleas on rats, and ships certainly had their fair share of rats, so it does seem a little strange it took so long for enough flea-covered-rats to cross that it finally got transmitted but.. I'm not an epidemiologist or a biologist so what the gently caress do I know? I suspect it's related to the transmission rate among the crew and the length of time at sea to cross the Atlantic. An infected crew wouldn't make it. Transmitting it across the Black Sea or Mediterranean via ships is much easier.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 05:33
|
|
|
Do we have an idea of when did the various vulgar Latin dialects in the West stopped being mutually intelligible? My uninformed suspicion would be that Britannia would stop being intelligible to someone from, say, Lugundum or Milan first due to the Anglo-Saxon conquest, and Africa second due to the Arab conquest, but I don't actually know and even French, Italian, and Spanish eventually became their own languages instead of merely dialects of Latin
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 06:14
|
|
|
Elyv posted:Do we have an idea of when did the various vulgar Latin dialects in the West stopped being mutually intelligible? My uninformed suspicion would be that Britannia would stop being intelligible to someone from, say, Lugundum or Milan first due to the Anglo-Saxon conquest, and Africa second due to the Arab conquest, but I don't actually know and even French, Italian, and Spanish eventually became their own languages instead of merely dialects of Latin Per wikipedia, it looks like by the eighth century mutual comprehension was becoming difficult. The division between when two things are dialects vs languages is super fuzzy but it's gonna be around there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 06:19
|
|
|
Elyv posted:Do we have an idea of when did the various vulgar Latin dialects in the West stopped being mutually intelligible? My uninformed suspicion would be that Britannia would stop being intelligible to someone from, say, Lugundum or Milan first due to the Anglo-Saxon conquest, and Africa second due to the Arab conquest, but I don't actually know and even French, Italian, and Spanish eventually became their own languages instead of merely dialects of Latin The Anglo Saxon conquest is a bit more complex than that. Latin never penetrated to the level of the rural population and a bunch of Roman britons fled to Gaul as refugees around the 5th C when the saxons did their thing. Ever wonder where Brittany got it’s name? It’s not really an issue of British Latin becoming unintelligible due to foreign influences, like what later happens to old English when it gets the Norse and French bits hammered into it. Really it’s more of a Germanic migration pushing out the local celts than anything, similar to what you get in the Rhine and Danube borderlands around the first-ish century.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 06:35
|
|
|
Elyv posted:Do we have an idea of when did the various vulgar Latin dialects in the West stopped being mutually intelligible? Not really, and it also depends on what dialect you mean. To this day Spanish and Italian are somewhat mutually intelligible, for one example. I'm comfortable saying that by 1000 you mostly have fairly distinct languages but that's as far as I'd go.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 08:01
|
|
|
Like Fromage said, there's still great mutual intelligibility between languages that aren't French, Romanian or European Portuguese. The first documents that are distinctly not-Latin are from the 700s or 800s, and by the high middle ages all of the major romance languages have distinct cultural identities. We don't really know what the extinct colonial Latin varieties looked like, but I don't think we need to assume that they were somehow exceptionally weird and different from continental Latin
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 08:56
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:There also appears to be the subtext that the Polynesians returned home with the sweet taters after visiting, e.g. this wasn't a one-way "just set up camp where you hit land" thing so much as a trade route. You'd think if it wasnt a one off but was a trade route they would have got some chilli seeds
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 13:06
|
|
|
Chili peppers are from Mexico, while Potatos are from South America. http://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p66561/mobile/pr01.html Looking at Pacific trade winds, it would not have been easy for Polynesians to make contact with North American cultures.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 13:59
|
|
|
The sweet potato is not a potato that is sweet. They're barely related. You should call it something else if it's that hard (but don't call it a yam, that's also dumb)
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 14:04
|
|
|
Ras Het posted:The sweet potato is not a potato that is sweet. They're barely related. You should call it something else if it's that hard (but don't call it a yam, that's also dumb) Don't tell me what I can or can't yam. I yam what I yam.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 14:14
|
|
|
whoops I hosed up. Sweet potatos are native to Central America and the northern bit of South America, which is pretty drat close to Mexico. So no idea why they didn't also bring along Chilis, maybe the trade route was transient, and fell apart after the families who controlled the route died, and they didn't have any preference for pain fruits.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 14:20
|
|
|
Phobophilia posted:whoops I hosed up. Sweet potatos are native to Central America and the northern bit of South America, which is pretty drat close to Mexico. So no idea why they didn't also bring along Chilis, maybe the trade route was transient, and fell apart after the families who controlled the route died, and they didn't have any preference for pain fruits. Nah, chillies are thought to have originated in Peru or Bolivia, most older species are from there. Chillies moved north as they were domesticated and turned into different sub-species, eg the capsicum anuum in mexico and the capsicum chinense on the yutacan penninsula (which spread to the Carribean islands.) But most of the older varieties such as the the wilds, frutescens, pubescens and baccatum are from south america, and still predominately there as a native species and have been for 6000 years. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Feb 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 15:05
|
|
|
Ras Het posted:The sweet potato is not a potato that is sweet. They're barely related. You should call it something else if it's that hard (but don't call it a yam, that's also dumb) "Hope you're prepared for some mouth watering tubers!" "I thought you said we were having clams." "Oh, no, I said steamed yams! That's what I call sweet potatoes!"
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 17:22
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Grand Fromage posted:Not really, and it also depends on what dialect you mean. To this day Spanish and Italian are somewhat mutually intelligible, for one example. My grandfather was from Sicily and was able to chat with his neighbor from Spain. Always amazed me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 19:13
|
|
|
That's kinda interesting to me because I thought southern and northern Italian were basically incomprehensible to each other because romance languages were basically a gradient throughout their range except when external forces messed with distributions (so french isn't mutually intelligible with northern Italian but Occitan, the traditional language of Provence, is) Of course the radio and then later the TV made it so that the prestige dialect of any given language is understandable anywhere it's broadcast
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 19:36
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:That's kinda interesting to me because I thought southern and northern Italian were basically incomprehensible to each other because romance languages were basically a gradient throughout their range except when external forces messed with distributions (so french isn't mutually intelligible with northern Italian but Occitan, the traditional language of Provence, is) Well, here's a very quick comparison of Sicilian and Friulian: http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/friulian/common/ http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/sicilian/salentino/
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 19:47
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:That's kinda interesting to me because I thought southern and northern Italian were basically incomprehensible to each other because romance languages were basically a gradient throughout their range except when external forces messed with distributions (so french isn't mutually intelligible with northern Italian but Occitan, the traditional language of Provence, is) There also gradients of understanding. A modern English speaker and a modern Frisian speaker aren’t going to debate philosophy with each other but basic weather, bartering, etc conversations are very much still possible in a mangled way Meanwhile there are far extremes of the German dialect gradient that are more or less unintelligible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 19:53
|
|
|
People in the USA should be quite familiar with the mutual intelligibility of AAE and standard English
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 19:55
|
|
|
euphronius posted:People in the USA should be quite familiar with the mutual intelligibility of AAE and standard English That split is nowhere near as far as what you're looking at with even Spanish and Italian. That's more like two relatively closely related dialects than something like Spanish/Italian.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 20:02
|
|
|
Just trying to give a more ready example.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 20:05
|
|
|
North and South will always hate each other and declare each other to being speaking gibberish even if they understand each other 100%.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 20:17
|
|
|
I did hear in my undergrad linguistics classes that American English and Australian English are roughly as distinct as Norwegian and Swedish, which really should be called the same language. Combined with things like Mandarin and Cantonese being pseudo-considered just "Chinese" by many people you get the traditional linguistics joke "A language is a dialect with an army"
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 20:20
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:I did hear in my undergrad linguistics classes that American English and Australian English are roughly as distinct as Norwegian and Swedish, which really should be called the same language. Combined with things like Mandarin and Cantonese being pseudo-considered just "Chinese" by many people you get the traditional linguistics joke "A language is a dialect with an army" Well there's an extra bit of fun in there, since on top of there being the typical gathering of regional spoken dialects, there's two different standards for how to write Norwegian. One of those is often considered to be more similar to Danish and the other more similar to Swedish.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 20:37
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Well there's an extra bit of fun in there, since on top of there being the typical gathering of regional spoken dialects, there's two different standards for how to write Norwegian. One of those is often considered to be more similar to Danish and the other more similar to Swedish. the scandinavians, desperate to believe they don't all just speak norse
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 20:59
|
|
|
people have told me that since i know english and german i should be able to understand dutch. this is a lie.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 21:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 19:53 |
|
|
Is Bruno Mars known as Bruno Ares in Greece?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 23:11
|
|
