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Tias posted:What's with the thread title? Did the F-104 crash a lot or what? The F-104 Lawndart also known as the F-104 Widowmaker did have a reputation, yes. It didn't help that there was a massive corruption scandal associated to it. Between that and the frequent crashes, it inspired the British band Hawkwind to make an album to its glory, with titles like "Aircraft Salesman", "Ejection", "I Resign" and "To Catch a Falling Starfighter". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGfXjAQSi8E German joke: Q: How can you get an F-104 Starfighter? A: Buy a plot of land and wait. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 16:01
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bewbies posted:the world's second coolest plane. An F-104 might have killed the XB-70, but that doesn't mean it gets to take the Valkyrie's spot in the hierarchy.
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Feb 12, 2018 16:04
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My favorite bit is where the wiki article lists loss rates to accidents. Germans lost 30% of their Starfighter fleet to accidents, the Canadians 46% and the Spanish Air Force lost none.
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Feb 12, 2018 16:12
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goatsestretchgoals posted:Theseus B-52s with everything replaced except they're still running TF-33s because we have approximately 14.9 million of them. No, we're not going to build any more B-52s. The B-52H, built in 1961 and 62, will remain in service until the heat death (nukes) of the Earth.
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Feb 12, 2018 16:19
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Godholio posted:No, we're not going to build any more B-52s. The B-52H, built in 1961 and 62, will remain in service until the heat death (nukes) of the Earth. But we will put ina glass cockpit and touch controls into the Hs we already have. Come on reengine!
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Feb 12, 2018 16:26
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Cat Mattress posted:German joke: They have one (probably fairly rare these days) in an air museum near where I live. I laid down underneath one of the "wings" and spread my arms out until I was roughly it's dimensions. It wasn't particularly difficult. I'd suggest a plane with two tiny wings about as big as a short rear end goon like me might have some substantial troubles with generating lift. It's a really good rocket.
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Feb 12, 2018 16:28
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Oooh poo poo, the starfighter! Yeah, I've heard of that  If you like wave( and who doesn't), Welle:Erdball made a decent tune about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U2vLpplCyE It's from the viewpoint of Joachim von Hessel, and the lyrics is more or less as depressing as you'd imagine: quote:Mein Name ist Joachim von Hassel.
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Feb 12, 2018 16:32
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Those lyrics are kind of a dick move. The first mishap of the Starfighter in German service was apparently a diamond formation of three of the first certified instructor pilots and one american instructor collectively pancaking during a practice run for an aerobatics display meant to mark the introduction of the type 
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Feb 12, 2018 18:29
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My favorite Starfighter factoid is that the Dutch used them to do a low pass over a hijacked train to stun/distract the hijackers so the Marines could move in.
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Feb 12, 2018 18:37
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aphid_licker posted:Those lyrics are kind of a dick move. Pretty sure you're thinking of the Thunderbirds T-38 crash. The only aerobatic team the German airforce ever had was a duo. Flying Starfighters, so I guess they could have both crashed but it wouldn't have had four guys in the flight. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 18:41
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 Found on a zap wall in a barber shop just now. I've posted some of the other ones they have a Team Red Dog sticker among other old stuff.
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Feb 12, 2018 18:44
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Nah the Starfighter had a similar group crash.Wikipedia posted:A particularly notable accident occurred on 19 June 1962 when a formation of four F-104F aircraft, practicing for the type's introduction-into-service ceremony, crashed together after descending through a cloud bank. Three Germans and one American pilot were killed, I'm guessing it wasn't a regular aerobatic team, just a group put together for the ceremony. Also, how are the lyrics dickish? e: Oh. "On August 25, 1966, Secretary of Defense Kai -Uwe von Hassel dismissed the Luftwaffe Inspector General, Lieutenant General Werner Panitzki, at his request, as he had criticized the procurement of the fighter plane as a "purely political decision" in an interview." Kai-Uwe von Hassel was the father of Joachim von Hassel, who did die in a Starfighter crash. Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 18:47
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The lyrics go into gratuitous, lurid detail about the emotional state of a particular guy who existed irl and indeed died in a Starfighter crash as he's sitting in the plane and going down and idk I imagined his dad, the secdef at the time, reading that. Yeah I was thinking about the June 19 1962 crash. Only German wiki unfortunately. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absturz_einer_Starfighter-Formation_der_Luftwaffe_der_Bundeswehr_1962 It says that both Bundeswehr aerobatics groups existing at the time were disbanded as a result of the crash.
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Feb 12, 2018 19:08
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Swedish air force squadron commander, defense policy pundit and occasional low key troll Carl "Wiseman" Bergqvist is in charge of @Sweden on Twitter this week, so if you want some Gripen porn, Swedish air force humblebragging and analysis of Swedish defense policy issues in English in bite-sized format, it's a thing to check out. https://twitter.com/sweden/status/963125840946098176 He also took the opportunity to post a link to the HUD cam view.
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Feb 12, 2018 20:35
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When Dr. Strangelove has come up in this thread there were a few names thrown around of people who seemed like they were the basis for some of the characters. Curtis LeMay is an obvious one, but there was some slightly lower level guy (I think in SAC) that was even scarier and was maybe the basis for Jack Ripper. Anybody remember who that could have been?
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Feb 12, 2018 21:12
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Thomas Powers posted:Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_S._Power?wprov=sfla1
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Feb 12, 2018 21:19
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david_a posted:When Dr. Strangelove has come up in this thread there were a few names thrown around of people who seemed like they were the basis for some of the characters. Curtis LeMay is an obvious one, but there was some slightly lower level guy (I think in SAC) that was even scarier and was maybe the basis for Jack Ripper. Anybody remember who that could have been? General "kill the bastards" Powers?
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Feb 12, 2018 21:31
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aphid_licker posted:The lyrics go into gratuitous, lurid detail about the emotional state of a particular guy who existed irl and indeed died in a Starfighter crash as he's sitting in the plane and going down and idk I imagined his dad, the secdef at the time, reading that. Don't sweat it, it was recorded in 2000, 3 years after the elder von Hasses death.
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Feb 12, 2018 21:45
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aphid_licker posted:The lyrics go into gratuitous, lurid detail about the emotional state of a particular guy who existed irl and indeed died in a Starfighter crash as he's sitting in the plane and going down and idk I imagined his dad, the secdef at the time, reading that. The only thing going through his head was the instrument panel
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Feb 12, 2018 21:48
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Yup, that’s him alright. Thanks!
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Feb 12, 2018 22:58
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the starfighter was rad as gently caress and looked cool and if you don't like it gently caress you
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Feb 12, 2018 23:27
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I greatly enjoy admiring the Starfighter as a static display.
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Feb 12, 2018 23:31
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The Starfighter gave us the United Servo Men's Academy Choir, so points to the F-104
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Feb 13, 2018 00:40
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It also appears to be the inspiration for *most* of the supersonic land-speed record vehicle designs.
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Feb 13, 2018 00:41
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The starfighter's wings aren't big enough for a car in the 60s
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Feb 13, 2018 00:49
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howe_sam posted:The Starfighter gave us the United Servo Men's Academy Choir, so points to the F-104 https://youtu.be/Ree220FiOEg That and the poopie suit. The movie (The Starfighter a) is legit mind numbing though and makes the f-104 seem boring as hell. Not even mst3k riffing can save it.
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Feb 13, 2018 02:31
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A full page of Starfighter talk and no one's posted The Right Stuff yet.... Got any Beemans?
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Feb 13, 2018 05:42
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Epiphyte posted:A full page of Starfighter talk and no one's posted The Right Stuff yet.... "Mah las'tick."
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Feb 13, 2018 05:58
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With all due respect to the Starfighters prowess in killing its pilots, wasn’t this a general thing for that generation of jets. I recall numbers for the Swedish jets like Lansen, which had a pretty horrible crash rate. Same thing for Mig21, where I think the Indian Air Force lost most of their fleet to crashes?
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Feb 13, 2018 06:20
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Cardiac posted:With all due respect to the Starfighters prowess in killing its pilots, wasn’t this a general thing for that generation of jets. I recall numbers for the Swedish jets like Lansen, which had a pretty horrible crash rate. If you are serious about losing airframes, you pretty much have to do it from carriers. The Supermarine Scimitar lost over half the aircraft in 5 years of active service, and the Gutlass Cutless made a good attempt at it before it got relegated to guard units and boneyards as fast as they were built.
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Feb 13, 2018 06:22
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It was an era for the reach of high performance aircraft designs to exceed their grasp. The Starfighter is notable for having one of the longest reaches combined with one of the weakest grasps.
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Feb 13, 2018 06:24
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IIRC at one point Northrop built a target drone for testing SAMs that turned out to be too fast to actually be used as a target drone.
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Feb 13, 2018 06:28
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I'll be dammed if i can remember the the plane, but there was some plane in the late forties / early fifties that was obsolete basically the minute it rolled off the assembly line and went straight to the junkyard.
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Feb 13, 2018 06:43
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Smiling Jack posted:I'll be dammed if i can remember the the plane, but there was some plane in the late forties / early fifties that was obsolete basically the minute it rolled off the assembly line and went straight to the junkyard. The B-32 had some variants flown directly to the junkyard.
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Feb 13, 2018 06:53
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Saint Celestine posted:The B-32 had some variants flown directly to the junkyard. Yep, that was probably it.
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Feb 13, 2018 06:54
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Smiling Jack posted:Yep, that was probably it. The B-32 cracks me up. We build it"just in case" the B-29 didn't work out.
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Feb 13, 2018 07:11
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Flikken posted:We build it"just in case" the B-29 didn't work out. It's not like the B-29 didn't have some fairly serious problems early in development, so yeah, it probably made sense to have a backup option.
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Feb 13, 2018 07:23
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Cardiac posted:With all due respect to the Starfighters prowess in killing its pilots, wasn’t this a general thing for that generation of jets. I recall numbers for the Swedish jets like Lansen, which had a pretty horrible crash rate. The worst accident was probably when a Lansen suffered a flameout due to a known defect in the fueling system when using a drop tank. The defect was scheduled to be fixed and the replacement parts had been sitting at the base for a month. The pilot punched out but the plane kept gliding and eventually crashed into a farmhouse, killing 7 civilians.
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Feb 13, 2018 09:42
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Cardiac posted:With all due respect to the Starfighters prowess in killing its pilots, wasn’t this a general thing for that generation of jets. I recall numbers for the Swedish jets like Lansen, which had a pretty horrible crash rate. Craptacular posted:It's not like the B-29 didn't have some fairly serious problems early in development, so yeah, it probably made sense to have a backup option. C.M. Kruger posted:IIRC at one point Northrop built a target drone for testing SAMs that turned out to be too fast to actually be used as a target drone.
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Feb 13, 2018 12:16
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Collateral Damage posted:TheFluff can probably chime in, but yeah Lansen was pretty terrible for safety. Out of 447 built 138 were lost or written off, which puts it on par with the Starfighter's 30% loss rate. Wasn't a lot of this due to the Swedish practice of flying treetop-trimming flights all over the place?
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Feb 13, 2018 12:19
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