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Evil Fluffy posted:e: ^^^^ Rothfuss also knows gently caress-all about music and it shows, repeatedly, when he writes about it. Don't forget the way the audiences reactions were described with and they loved it and all felt sooo much emotion, but probably worse was the whole ohh I'm playing this super hard piece and then a string broke but I'm such a genius I made it work anyways. It doesn't work like that. A string breaking mid performance is a famous kind of issue, and when it happened I was like ohh good a great moment, but it was terrible because the Kvothe is just magically amazing.
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Feb 14, 2018 21:51
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The hilarious part is when fans try to defend the horrid musician bits though you can say that about the entire book really
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Feb 14, 2018 22:24
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HIJK posted:The hilarious part is when fans try to defend the horrid musician bits though you can say that about the entire book really What's astonishing is Lin-Manuel Miranda praising Rothfuss's writing of music. It's loving bizarro world.
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Feb 14, 2018 23:14
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PJOmega posted:What's astonishing is Lin-Manuel Miranda praising Rothfuss's writing of music. It's loving bizarro world. Its not very surprising that two guys who make bad art like each others work
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Feb 14, 2018 23:36
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PJOmega posted:What's astonishing is Lin-Manuel Miranda praising Rothfuss's writing of music. It's loving bizarro world. Writing a popular stage play doesn't magically make Miranda any less of an idiot. Maybe Miranda is one of those people who was a massive primadonna growing up and would actually throw stupid music tantrums like Kvothe. Or it's one lucky hack praising another. 
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Feb 14, 2018 23:54
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All I know is that how Rothfart writes about music is pants on head retarded and absolutely rage inducing if I think about it too long.
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Feb 15, 2018 00:11
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HIJK posted:All I know is that how Rothfart writes about music is pants on head retarded and absolutely rage inducing if I think about it too long. SAD
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Feb 15, 2018 01:12
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ShinsoBEAM! posted:Don't forget the way the audiences reactions were described with and they loved it and all felt sooo much emotion, but probably worse was the whole ohh I'm playing this super hard piece and then a string broke but I'm such a genius I made it work anyways. It doesn't work like that. A string breaking mid performance is a famous kind of issue, and when it happened I was like ohh good a great moment, but it was terrible because the Kvothe is just magically amazing. Ugh, I play violin (amateurly) but even I can tell you that if a string breaks in the middle of a major concerto you're hosed. I remember a story about Joshua Bell playing when a string broke and he had to swap instruments with an orchestra member. In theory, yes you can play the same notes on different strings but no way in hell do you have the muscle memory to do that and if your G or E breaks you are literally losing range. So loving dumb. But yea, as the rest of the thread noted, nothing actually happens in the Wise Mans Fear is my point. Who's ready for the third brick?
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Feb 15, 2018 03:44
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Evil Fluffy posted:Writing a popular stage play doesn't magically make Miranda any less of an idiot. Maybe Miranda is one of those people who was a massive primadonna growing up and would actually throw stupid music tantrums like Kvothe. If Miranda was a one hit wonder I'd think so, but In the Heights was also pretty good, and his music for Moana was great. He's just also susceptible to the lure of Twilight for Boys.
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Feb 15, 2018 03:52
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Its perfectly normal to be good at one thing and have garbage opinions about another see: Carson, Ben
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Feb 15, 2018 04:51
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When will Immortal Technique put this thread in the garbage
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Feb 15, 2018 05:40
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Yeah, I don't "get" Hamilton-fever, but his Moana music was good stuff (I am not a very musical person though, so I trust my opinions on that way less than on writing). I don't understand why he thinks Rothfuss is great either, but it does seem like they have some overlapping friends (like the mbmbam guys). So maybe it's a case of they're in the same social group and propping each other up is just what you do even if you don't really believe they're as great as the buzz would have you believe.
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Feb 15, 2018 06:08
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my bony fealty posted:Its perfectly normal to be good at one thing and have garbage opinions about another Ben Carson is interesting because he may not actually be as amazing a surgeon as he claims. Since he fully believed that God was assisting him, he was simply willing to take cases that other, more realistic surgeons had turned down. Sometimes this worked out for Carson, other times not so much, but you rarely hear about his failures.
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Feb 15, 2018 08:45
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A human heart posted:it's badass that a guy wrote very long posts explaining exactly why the bad books were bad and now people on this forum are seized with the chill of death when they try to read the bad books and remember his posts
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Feb 15, 2018 14:02
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Ugh, I play violin (amateurly) but even I can tell you that if a string breaks in the middle of a major concerto you're hosed. I remember a story about Joshua Bell playing when a string broke and he had to swap instruments with an orchestra member. In theory, yes you can play the same notes on different strings but no way in hell do you have the muscle memory to do that and if your G or E breaks you are literally losing range. Thanks to my (terrible) guitar playing, I can appreciate what a great musician Kvothe truly is.
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Feb 15, 2018 17:14
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Considering it restricts the range of your instrument, wouldn't most people in an audience be okay with a musician taking fifteen seconds to switch out an instrument in order to continue a great performance rather than watch them struggle to produce a workable performance with busted poo poo? Because I would just be like, hey man accidents happen, swap out your lute. I'd be kind of pissed if he just tried to keep going.
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Feb 15, 2018 17:57
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Nakar posted:Considering it restricts the range of your instrument, wouldn't most people in an audience be okay with a musician taking fifteen seconds to switch out an instrument in order to continue a great performance rather than watch them struggle to produce a workable performance with busted poo poo? Even that would be a bitch and a half, as playing an unfamiliar instrument on the fly would be impressive. Rothfuss wrote about music in much the same way anyone who isn't in an artistic discipline writes about it. It's all about feel, putting your will into the work, etc, etc. It's lazy magic. There's no talk of forethought. Of visualizing. Of the loving work that goes into planning to turn, for example, a block of stone into a sculpture. In Rothfussian writing, anyone who can't sculpt is simply lacking the artistic spirit. Every person could outshine Rodin if they only wanted to badly enough. I admit I don't know music. I barely know sculpture but I know it better than music. I wouldn't dream of writing a musician without a lot of research. Rothfuss treats it like lovely magic, in that if you're special enough your capital w Will will overcome any obstacle.
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Feb 15, 2018 18:09
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Nakar posted:Considering it restricts the range of your instrument, wouldn't most people in an audience be okay with a musician taking fifteen seconds to switch out an instrument in order to continue a great performance rather than watch them struggle to produce a workable performance with busted poo poo? Is it their backup instrument or someone else's? Is it tuned the same? Can the song be restarted without losing the audience? A lot of times, once you lose the energy of the room, it's not gonna come back.
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Feb 15, 2018 18:21
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PJOmega posted:Even that would be a bitch and a half, as playing an unfamiliar instrument on the fly would be impressive. Basically Rothfuss treats music like rolling a d20 and your proficiency in music is determined by what number you roll when you reach the skill check. Kvothe is his Gary Stu self insert so of course he's going to roll natural 20s every time.
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Feb 15, 2018 18:45
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HIJK posted:Basically Rothfuss treats music like rolling a d20 and your proficiency in music is determined by what number you roll when you reach the skill check. Kvothe is his Gary Stu self insert so of course he's going to roll natural 20s every time. Except for any persuasion checks involving money or Denna.
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Feb 15, 2018 19:11
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A Rant in Three Parts, or why I don't like to scrutinize bad novels unless I'd rather not-work more. What irked me the most about the writing about music wasn't so much the bad writing about music; I'm used to that and don't expect authors to be musicians or whatever other specialization they may be including in their stories. It's the sheer multitude of people, who by the coherence of their words imply that they've given some thought to the subject, saying that it's good writing. One's opinion of the quality of writing in the text is likely formed by a combination of the following three influences: Directly, the musical scenes in the text invoke the lazy-man's bastardization of the American Dream, where you don't even have to try hard for something as long as you want it bad enough. I'd argue that this is the more popular variant of the American Dream at this point. This kind of writing is common enough that I tend to ignore it and move on. Sometimes I even enjoy it in youth-oriented video games. But it's made harder to ignore by the next two effects. Expositorily, both the narrator and all the relevant supporting characters repeat how good the music is. This invokes the Illusory Truth Effect, by which the reader sees references (or outright statements) to "music is good" so often that they internalize the belief that the music is good. I suspect they then believe that the writing about the music is good to side-step a cognitive dissonance. It is natural (but naive) to assume that one's opinions about an aspect of a book are solely formed by their experience of reading that book. If they both believe that the music described in the book was good and that this opinion was formed as a consequence of reading those sections of the book, then it must be the case that those sections of the book were well-written. In reality, it's more like they've fallen victim to propaganda. Which is unfortunate, because in this day and age that brings us to: Memetic critical mass. This is where these books thrive, and where we all die a little inside. Enough people either legitimately enjoyed the wish-fulfillment aspects of it or fell for the in-text propaganda that they became socially weaponized. The act of so many people proselytizing on behalf of the books, using either incorrect objective statements (the musical segments are well-written) or misguided and misleading subjective statements (the way he writes about music makes me feel X), creates a positive feedback loop that both predisposes people toward agreeing (because humans tend to want to fit in with their peers) and enhances the potency of the Illusory Truth Effect. I'm sadly unsurprised at how effective these tactics are, though I'm not going to claim them cleverly nor deliberately deployed. They do seem to be the preeminent tools in the contemporary approach to public influence.
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Feb 15, 2018 19:18
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I don't think Lin-Manuel Miranda thinks Rothfuss' writing about music is credible, but he's getting paid a ton of money. How often do you hear people say "The source material sucks, but we'll see if I can't salvage something interesting out of this mess" when discussing giant popular properties for a major network?
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Feb 15, 2018 19:44
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Sensibly one of the reasons LMM is taking a whole different story set in the world is that he thinks the world is cool but Rothfuss and Kvothe are awful. There are a ton of little ideas that make for a cool fantasy show under the hood.
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Feb 15, 2018 20:02
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That loving Rothfuss is going to ruin Hamilton for me.
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Feb 15, 2018 20:04
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M_Gargantua posted:Sensibly one of the reasons LMM is taking a whole different story set in the world is that he thinks the world is cool but Rothfuss and Kvothe are awful. There are a ton of little ideas that make for a cool fantasy show under the hood. I'm not asking this to insult, but what aspects of the world do you find cool? Absent the Chandrian and Magic As Physics what are the neat hooks that you see?
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Feb 15, 2018 20:27
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Pretty much. Because the world is a completely generic fantasy setting that doesn't even make sense half the time.
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Feb 15, 2018 20:32
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Solice Kirsk posted:I don't think Lin-Manuel Miranda thinks Rothfuss' writing about music is credible, but he's getting paid a ton of money. How often do you hear people say "The source material sucks, but we'll see if I can't salvage something interesting out of this mess" when discussing giant popular properties for a major network? This was my thought as well. He has a vested interest in the shows success and hyping up the author while everyone cares what he says is part of that.
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Feb 15, 2018 20:37
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PJOmega posted:I'm not asking this to insult, but what aspects of the world do you find cool? Absent the Chandrian and Magic As Physics what are the neat hooks that you see? Mostly Magic as Physics, which why would that be absent? The university as a visual place like Hogwarts (The archive, the mysteries that have simply been built over in age) The history of the war over fairy All the weird culturally unrealistic elements that make it schlocky fantasy (Adem wearing red and talking with hands, The talent pipes being a widely accepted mark of distinction, etc.)\ I'd much rather see a Craft Sequence series, as the "Magic as lawyering" is better and more integral to the plot.
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Feb 15, 2018 22:02
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Habibi posted:That loving Rothfuss is going to ruin Hamilton for me. ah gently caress, ah poo poo!!!
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Feb 15, 2018 22:31
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M_Gargantua posted:I'd much rather see a Craft Sequence series, as the "Magic as lawyering" is better and more integral to the plot. God drat this would be so, so loving good. And Gladstone deserves it miles more than Rothfuss does.
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Feb 15, 2018 23:48
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M_Gargantua posted:Sensibly one of the reasons LMM is taking a whole different story set in the world is that he thinks the world is cool but Rothfuss and Kvothe are awful. There are a ton of little ideas that make for a cool fantasy show under the hood. There really isn't, it's just a generic fantasy world. The major magic system, Naming, is literally millennia old and dates back to ancient Egypt if not earlier. Pretty sure Horus or Set used True Name powers against another god in one of their myths. The lesser magic seems like something he wrote after binge-watching Full Metal Alchemist. The magic school is literally him ripping off Hogwarts with less effort than Rowling used when copying Gandalf for Dumbledore (among other things). The worst is the "Rothfuss is such a feminist insanity when his writing is about as awful towards women as you can find. Even Devi's reduced to a "you have something (info) I want? I'll gently caress you for it right here and now for it" caricature at one point. Also that Felurian is, if the "Kvothe named her in their fight" belief is true, a literal sex slave for Kvothe while he's in the Fae. The only original-ish thing I can think of is the Fae realm's Omniscient rear end in a top hat Tree.
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Feb 16, 2018 00:14
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I was gonna mention the Evil Tree, yeah. That is the one legitimately cool idea out of Wise Man's Fear, so it gets a page and then it's back to Felurian's tits.
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Feb 16, 2018 02:34
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I liked the part where Kvothe started nonchalantly murdering people for the first time in his life with no discussion on how that might change him as a person.
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Feb 16, 2018 03:25
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I've been at concerts where the band kept a handful of spare guitars to the side of the stage in case a string broke. But that's one guitar in a five piece and so switching out one instrument can almost go unnoticed if they're fast about it. One band swapped both guitars at least once per song. They must have used super light gauge strings and played like madmen.
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Feb 16, 2018 03:45
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Atlas Hugged posted:I've been at concerts where the band kept a handful of spare guitars to the side of the stage in case a string broke. But that's one guitar in a five piece and so switching out one instrument can almost go unnoticed if they're fast about it. I wonder if they practice that, like pit crews. I'm happy if I can twiddle a knob or two between songs without breaking everything.
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Feb 16, 2018 03:50
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Their roadies were really good from what I could tell. And they were just a regional band, not even big.
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Feb 16, 2018 04:06
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PJOmega posted:I wouldn't dream of writing a musician without a lot of research. Nahh it's fine, everyone has a friend or two who got really into music at one point in life that can give you a few tips, and give the content a pass over to make sure you didn't goof on something. Also, what holds true for music holds true for most passions that you actually obsessed over and were good at. Like let's pretend those moments were about soccer instead of music, the complaints would be pretty much the same. A good bit of the time someone is writing about something they don't know about they make mistakes but they get the emotions right or the passion is there, but they just make a woopsy mistake. A large issue I have with Rothfuss is I'm not getting even that feeling of like, transposing his assumed love and passion for doing writing with say music and how that would effect him.
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Feb 16, 2018 19:52
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Someone in the thread nailed it when they said Rothfuss writes about missing music as if Kvothe lost his iPod and not like someone who has lost the music in his heart.
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Feb 16, 2018 20:26
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Solice Kirsk posted:Someone in the thread nailed it when they said Rothfuss writes about missing music as if Kvothe lost his iPod and not like someone who has lost the music in his heart. and it was like a really expensive ipod, like when the first generation ipods were hot and he was really attached to it and he lost it and now he can't wver listen to music again because he's a spoiled trust fund kid that wanted that specific model and if he loses it then music is ruined FOREVER
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Feb 16, 2018 21:30
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Actually he lost his magic and music by picking a fight with the evil tree. It just hosed.him.right.up and the worst part is everyone laughs when he tries to warn then about the Kung Fu demon tree. Plus it's actually only 10 years old it just grew really fast.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:20
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