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Javid posted:What we need are laws that require that guy to go straight and turn somewhere there's a dedicated lane rather than holding up 10 cars. They should just sign these as no left turn intersections
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Feb 12, 2018 16:58
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:They should just sign these as no left turn intersections Yeah, but then having a big arterial be "no left turns, no u-turns, gently caress you if your destination is on the left" is an entirely different problem.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:05
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I mean, almost all the traffic-light intersections around here either have a turn lane, or are wide enough that a car wanting to turn can at least pull forward a bit and let traffic behind them go around. This one intersection I'm talking about is particularly egregious, and it's also one I have to go through on my work commute so I've seen a lot of retarded delays there.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:07
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Javid posted:What we need are laws that require that guy to go straight and turn somewhere there's a dedicated lane rather than holding up 10 cars. There's a shitload of intersections where I make a right turn, then make the closest legal u-turn, instead of trying to do a left turn. It's the only way to get across a lot of busy roads, even late at night. Sometimes just driving around the entire block is easier/just as fast (maybe faster) than sitting there. Plus if i'm making a left turn at a signalized intersection, I was taught to pull into the intersection enough to let other cars pass, and to clear the intersection once the light changes if I wasn't able to make the turn before the light changed. I'm already in the middle of the intersection, so I'm blocking cross traffic unless I GTFO.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:08
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Javid posted:Yeah, but then having a big arterial be "no left turns, no u-turns, gently caress you if your destination is on the left" is an entirely different problem. I would guess that for many of them, the solution is to change the route slightly or drive an extra block and do a turn from a dedicated turn lane or a stop light or something. But the "no left thing" is subject to politics so good loving luck getting traction on anything. There's a 45 mph road I commute on that hasn't been improved in several decades but suburbs grew around it and there are a lot of branches with no stop lights. For most of them they've set up no left turns but there's a couple random businesses and neighborhood streets that have managed to avoid signage and these spots always have fuckers holding up dozens of cars waiting for a gap in oncoming traffic. I assume the people that can still turn left actually showed up to the town meetings and bitched to protect their access, loving everyone else over.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:11
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Yu-Gi-Ho! posted:Plus if i'm making a left turn at a signalized intersection, I was taught to pull into the intersection enough to let other cars pass, and to clear the intersection once the light changes if I wasn't able to make the turn before the light changed. I'm already in the middle of the intersection, so I'm blocking cross traffic unless I GTFO. Exactly this. It's just that this particular intersection I was talking about is really small/narrow, to the point that even if the turning car pulls into the middle of the intersection, there's still not enough room for cars to go around without jumping the curb.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:17
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sleepy.eyes posted:Look man, I appreciate that you're trying to be polite. Really though, I can't see oncoming traffic on this divided 6 lane road and you being at a dead stop in the middle lane is just going to cause a loving accident. Eventually someone else stopped for me, which just meant 2/3s of the road was at a dead stop and I still couldn't see oncoming traffic. I'm not about to pray and go for the gold, folks. I have seen several accidents as a result of this and been in one personally, so no loving thank you folks I will wait for you all to pass before trying to go. That behavior terrifies me when driving down a multi-lane road and I see someone stopped ahead--is there a car about to turn in front of me? Are they broken down? Who knows?! With my own accident I was the one trying to cross (from a parking lot into the turning lane of a five-lane road) and was hit by someone using the turning lane as a "gently caress traffic I'm passing everyone" lane. So you never know what kind of nonsense is about to happen.
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Feb 12, 2018 18:28
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Yu-Gi-Ho! posted:Apparently dedicated u-turn lanes are kind of a thing you don't see much outside of Texas? They're incredibly common here at signaled highway intersections (both elevated and ground level - for DFW goons, this was Walton Walker at the last onramp before I-35E). Dude in the F-150 was using said u-turn lane, and had a yield sign. 99% of the dedicated u-turn lanes at highways that I've seen are set up like this - lights for regular traffic, yield sign for u-turn traffic. There's the Michigan Left
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Feb 12, 2018 19:55
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totalnewbie posted:There's the Michigan Left and people say jughandles are complicated? 
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Feb 12, 2018 20:08
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totalnewbie posted:There's the Michigan Left They tried this is Plano, Tx for some reason. https://www.google.com/maps/@33.0705257,-96.7959446,671m/data=!3m1!1e3 As they installed the new roads they added large signs that were about 8 ft by 12ft full of text and diagrams of what to do to turn left onto Preston from legacy that were completely ignored. It did not work out.
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Feb 12, 2018 20:56
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:and people say jughandles are complicated? It works fine if it's done right, but my biggest problems with it are: 1. It's not immediately clear which roads have Michigan lefts and which don't, so you're not quite sure which side of the road to be on sometimes. 2. If it gets really busy and the turn lane overflows onto the main road, it blocks traffic. I don't see this often, though, tbh. But it does really make turning left easier in some situations, and also gives you flexibility in terms of lane choice if your road and the road you're turning onto both have Michigan lefts (you can make a U-turn and turn right, or do a "proper" Michigan left and turn right then U-turn).
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Feb 12, 2018 21:04
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:I agree it needs to be different, but it is what it is so I try to compromise with a <5 second delay on my part to save potential minutes off the line of cars stuck behind the guy making a left. I get that the Pittsburgh Left isn't legal but I've seen enough of it to know to look out for it at certain intersections around D.C., but 5 seconds is way too much. The reward goes to the guy willing to punch it and cut in front of me the second the light turns green. If he wants that left then I should be able to start a slow normal acceleration when green and they're normally cleared the intersection well before I cross their path.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:02
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davebo posted:I get that the Pittsburgh Left isn't legal but I've seen enough of it to know to look out for it at certain intersections around D.C., but 5 seconds is way too much. The reward goes to the guy willing to punch it and cut in front of me the second the light turns green. If he wants that left then I should be able to start a slow normal acceleration when green and they're normally cleared the intersection well before I cross their path. I mean I've never carried a stopwatch but my general point is I'll flash my brights right as I see the opposite light go red and 99% of the time they get the message and punch it.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:06
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totalnewbie posted:There's the Michigan Left That seems like a good idea until you remember everyone on the road is criminally stupid.
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Feb 13, 2018 17:26
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Protocol7 posted:That seems like a good idea until you remember everyone on the road is criminally stupid. I used to spend about two weeks at a time doing service calls in Michigan two or three times per year in the mid-2000s, I always remember the Michigan lefts working reasonably well when I encountered them. Worked a whole hell of a lot better than jug handle intersections in New Jersey when I was there for training.
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Feb 13, 2018 17:33
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Geoj posted:Worked a whole hell of a lot better than jug handle intersections in New Jersey when I was there for training. GPS systems have a lot of trouble with small jug handles. Most don't have a way to convey "Turn right just past the intersection, onto this unnamed cloverleaf-type road, to turn left"
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Feb 13, 2018 17:42
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Geoj posted:I used to spend about two weeks at a time doing service calls in Michigan two or three times per year in the mid-2000s, I always remember the Michigan lefts working reasonably well when I encountered them.  
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Feb 13, 2018 18:33
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Geoj posted:I used to spend about two weeks at a time doing service calls in Michigan two or three times per year in the mid-2000s, I always remember the Michigan lefts working reasonably well when I encountered them. Ah, yeah, I remember those jug handles were pretty tricky when I was last in New Jersey. At least the Michigan left intersections seem pretty well signed.
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Feb 13, 2018 19:53
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Due to a weird quirk, I-41 N runs alongside I-43 S for a few miles in Milwaukee.
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Feb 13, 2018 22:02
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Protocol7 posted:Ah, yeah, I remember those jug handles were pretty tricky when I was last in New Jersey. At least the Michigan left intersections seem pretty well signed. That, and you have a better chance of not having to sit at a light to make the "turn" since the Michigan lefts typically occur on main arteries rather than side streets, increasing your odds of getting the light green or at least being able to turn right on red.
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Feb 13, 2018 22:05
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Has anyone else noticed that move where they veer right before they turn left, like the world's slowest Scandinavian Flick? Where the hell did they learn that from?
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Feb 13, 2018 22:19
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Got stuck behind a unique kind of rear end in a top hat today, they had this habit of lifting off the gas as they approached a green light and if it turned yellow they'd gun it and end up running a red. If they maintained speed both of us would have been able to get through cleanly. Due to bad luck on my part I managed to catch up to them twice after the first time they did this, and they did the exact same thing two more times. 
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Feb 13, 2018 23:06
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Whiz Palace posted:Has anyone else noticed that move where they veer right before they turn left, like the world's slowest Scandinavian Flick? Where the hell did they learn that from? I learned to drive on a crew cab truck and my first car was a Crown Vic. Even though I drive a Fiesta these days I still tend to take my turns wide when I'm not in a "apex everything" mood. Not leaving my lane of course, but definitely using all of it.
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Feb 13, 2018 23:52
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Whiz Palace posted:Has anyone else noticed that move where they veer right before they turn left, like the world's slowest Scandinavian Flick? Where the hell did they learn that from? A lot of minivans and geriatrics in Caddies do that around here.
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Feb 14, 2018 02:52
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:I mean I've never carried a stopwatch but my general point is I'll flash my brights right as I see the opposite light go red and 99% of the time they get the message and punch it. So these aren't people who are gearing up to make a Pittsburgh left? You're just waiting on them to get the hint that you want them to break the law in the interest of freeing up the traffic behind them? Yeah I would expect that to take a bit more time and I'd be inclined to honk too, because the people behind you can't see you flashing your high beams and probably assume you're looking at your cell phone.
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Feb 14, 2018 03:15
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davebo posted:So these aren't people who are gearing up to make a Pittsburgh left? You're just waiting on them to get the hint that you want them to break the law in the interest of freeing up the traffic behind them? Yeah I would expect that to take a bit more time and I'd be inclined to honk too, because the people behind you can't see you flashing your high beams and probably assume you're looking at your cell phone. ok
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Feb 14, 2018 06:20
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Whiz Palace posted:Has anyone else noticed that move where they veer right before they turn left, like the world's slowest Scandinavian Flick? Where the hell did they learn that from? I've always known that as a California Turn. I can infer the etymology of Scandinavian Flick. It might be ingrained because "that's the way dad did it" or habit from parking in the mall parking lot 7 days a week.
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Feb 14, 2018 08:58
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It's laziness. Least amount of effort in wheel turning, just a slight turn to arc one way, then the other, because you don't want to move the wheel more to make a single correct radius turn. Similarly, I see loads of people cutting across junctions here because they're too lazy/stupid/obese to be able to move the wheel more than a quarter turn either way. So they just make this slovenly arc across the nose of anyone waiting at the junction when pulling into it.
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Feb 14, 2018 10:44
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totalnewbie posted:There's the Michigan Left We tried that in the suburb I used to live in. It didn't go over well. They restored the intersection to the way it used to be after about a year (thankfully they just painted over the turn lanes and turned off the signal for it, instead of doing anything permanent to the actual intersection), but the u-turns still exist - they just took down the signals and turned them into single lane (originally it was 2 lanes that could exit the u-turn). It was also modeled so that you couldn't legally make the u-turn if there was any hint of traffic. Texas law requires that when you make a right turn, you stay in the far right lane (this is common I think, but left turns in TX allow you to end your turn in the lane of your choosing, so long as only 1 lane is turning - I don't think this is as common in other states). The u-turn and speed limit (55 MPH on the road you had to turn onto), plus how fast traffic really moves (anywhere from 30 to 70 depending on the ratio of BMW to Suburban at that moment), meant it was pretty much impossible to dart across before crossing a double white line (frankly, impossible to even make the turn without being a dick and cutting at least 2 people off unless you were far outside of peak traffic hours), and the next place to do a legal u-turn was something close to a mile away going north and about a quarter mile going south. So you were hosed either way if a cop was sitting there during rush hour. Had it not been one of the busiest intersections in DFW, not something foreign to Texans, not a 40 MPH road going into a 55 MPH road, and had more room to jump across 3 lanes, it may have worked better. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 12:48
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iospace posted:Due to a weird quirk, I-41 N runs alongside I-43 S for a few miles in Milwaukee. I-35W is perpendicular to Hwy 13 'round here. They're both North-South roads, but 13N makes a 90 turn to head east a few miles west of 35W. 13 then turns Northeast to run parallel to I-35E.
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Feb 14, 2018 13:49
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InitialDave posted:It's laziness. Least amount of effort in wheel turning, just a slight turn to arc one way, then the other, because you don't want to move the wheel more to make a single correct radius turn. No no, because then they would have to reposition their hands, and that just won't do! Most people I see driving around just lazily rest one hand at 12 o'clock on the steering wheel, and cannot be bothered to move the wheel more than 90° in either direction. Moving their hand down to use the blinkers is also way too much to ask of them. And when they do, they actually release the wheel completely, in order to flick the blinkers on. It's maddening and sad.
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Feb 14, 2018 15:26
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wolrah posted:Are they driving a large vehicle, or do they look like the kind of person who might have driven a large vehicle a lot? Swinging a bit wide for a corner is a habit you tend to pick up after mounting a curb a few times. Fair enough - though I doubt these people have ever driven something that big. And what gets me is they usually wander out of the turn lane when they do it. I've honked at them before, but on reflection there is a 0.0% chance they understood what I was mad about.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:16
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Yu-Gi-Ho! posted:We tried that in the suburb I used to live in. It didn't go over well. At a busy intersection, there should be a double red light (one at the normal place and one to protect the Michigan-left intersection) so this shouldn't happen. But it sounds like there was already a light (you said they just turned off the signal) so I don't really understand the problem. But yeah, I can understand how it's confusing. Confused the hell out of me, and still confuses me when I'm in an unfamiliar area. Probably the best idea for busy thoroughfares, though, because you have a wide median and an easy way to cross the street.
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Feb 14, 2018 21:33
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Wasabi the J posted:And I really miss my uturn lanes here in Vegas. We have the dead lane in the middle for most streets, so technically in Nevada a u-turn is implicitly allowed (A U-turn may be made on any road where the turn can be made with safety, except as prohibited by this section … ) but at lights it was nice to have a dedicated lane for turning around, as average speeds of turners was kept higher. Suicide Lanes!  Yeah I miss them when in other places, so handy.
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Feb 15, 2018 01:57
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These are the roads you share with people. I've had a good time exploring some of these abominations in Google Earth (and a less than good time exploring some of the LA ones for real).     Source is some redditor's Etsy store.
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Feb 15, 2018 18:43
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So, would Phoenix be just a bunch of X's, then?
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Feb 15, 2018 19:26
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somehow they missed seattle's worst intersection: just a 7 street intersection nbd
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Feb 15, 2018 19:30
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:So, would Phoenix be just a bunch of X's, then? + and + with \ (don't forget Grand)
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Feb 15, 2018 19:34
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gently caress, totally forgot about Grand. Now, if they included Sun City there would be a bunch of 쌍시옷's all over the poster.
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Feb 15, 2018 19:40
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totalnewbie posted:At a busy intersection, there should be a double red light (one at the normal place and one to protect the Michigan-left intersection) so this shouldn't happen. But it sounds like there was already a light (you said they just turned off the signal) so I don't really understand the problem. The right turn lanes had a yield sign (the rest of the intersection was still signaled, they just turned off the left-turn-only lane signals), and even if it didn't, right turns on red are legal and common here. It was just really difficult to dart across the 3-4 lanes without driving like a total douche or crossing a double white line during peak hours (which gives Plano cops a hard on, they love to write tickets for crossing a double white and changing lanes too quickly). Add the combination of timid old ladies and aggressive BMW drivers. There were a lot of wrecks from people trying to pull out into 55-65 mph traffic and get over, but since they no longer happened at the actual intersection, it made the city's stats look better for the intersection.
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Feb 15, 2018 19:46
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