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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:it turned out that he didn't get spider powers or brain damage. instead, the transfusion gave banner peter's propensity for failure. it's not that he can't become the hulk any more, just that he can't do it when it would be useful in any way. It's this. snype edit: i need pictures! Pictures of spiderman!!
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Feb 15, 2018 08:07
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Push El Burrito posted:I thought he told Hulk a bunch of aliens called him a sissy? I try to block that from my mind. he did. that was the "the a doesn't stand for france" storyline of the ultimates and it was bad. tho it would later get worse...
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Feb 15, 2018 08:14
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Can wr stop bringing up the worst hulk
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Feb 15, 2018 08:17
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Synthbuttrange posted:Can wr stop bringing up the worst hulk No one's talking about Ang Lee's film.
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Feb 15, 2018 09:44
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Lurdiak posted:No one's talking about Ang Lee's film. Hey now, that was like 80-85% of a really interesting film! That last 10-15% though.... hoo boy 
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Feb 15, 2018 09:52
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That Hulk (and those Ultimates in general) were meant to be dubious figures rather than outright heroes is the thing. The Hulk being an unleashed super-fragile male id was meant as a commentary on Banner being a snotty Nice Guy who was incredibly insecure about his own masculinity. Similarly, Ultimate Cap is meant to be a jingoistic expression of American imperialism. Ultimate Banner is separated from Betty Ross, in disgrace because of his previous tenure as the Hulk, and ends up re-injecting himself with the Hulk serum on purpose when he overhears Hank Pym saying that he looks like Steve Buscemi. I actually think Ultimate Hulk works really well because he's a petty, rampaging monster fuelled by a specifically male insecurity and rage, and is a critique of how that "fragile nerd" persona often has angry darkness lurking underneath. He's usually used as a villain, not a hero. He's the antagonist of the first Ultimates arc, and spends the second being confined to a cell before being deployed as a last-ditch hope against an alien invasion. I mean, you wouldn't want the mainline Hulk to be like that, but it's a generative alternative take on, "willowy nerd becomes rage-fuelled juggernaut", similar to how Ultimate Captain America is basically an acknowledgement that America doesn't really live up to its highest values all the time.
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Feb 15, 2018 09:54
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It's just a shame Jeph Loeb got his hands on the Ultimate Universe.
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Feb 15, 2018 12:04
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Banner's a scientist, right? He's aware his body is eventually gonna replace the Spider-Blood with his own, yes? Presumably also removing the anti-hulk effects? Seconding the "wow I didn't see banner as a fygm guy" sentiment
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Feb 15, 2018 13:05
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The MSJ posted:It's just a shame Jeph Loeb got his hands on the Ultimate Universe. It is pretty amazing that one guy managed to entirely destroy an entire line of comics. I really liked most of that set of comics until it went completely off the rails and I can track it almost to a day to the release of his comics.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:26
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evilmiera posted:It is pretty amazing that one guy managed to entirely destroy an entire line of comics. I really liked most of that set of comics until it went completely off the rails and I can track it almost to a day to the release of his comics. Loeb was the last straw for me but I really cant say I enjoyed Ultimate X-Men for some time by that point and that was my in to that universe. None of the limited series were really any good either, with Iron Man being just bad to Daredevil being a less interesting take on Frank Millers run on he comic.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:39
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The MSJ posted:It's just a shame Jeph Loeb got his hands on the Ultimate Universe. Almost all the things cited in this thread happened in Volume 1. Ultimates was garbage from the start(Except Spider-man).
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Feb 15, 2018 14:57
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imo Ultimates 1 is excellent, Ultimates 2 is good with flaws, and then Ultimates 3 is unreadable Jeph Loeb nonsense. Keep in mind Ultimates 1 came out in 2002, way before the, "grittier take on a four-colour superhero universe," thing was an overplayed trope. Even apart from the more outre things, some of which are stupid, there's just a lot of good comics writing and character work in those books. Bryan Hitch's artwork is also bonkers good and gorgeous.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:05
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I did like the Ultimate Iron Man series being retconned into being an unauthorized anime.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:08
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Banner's a scientist, right? He's aware his body is eventually gonna replace the Spider-Blood with his own, yes? Presumably also removing the anti-hulk effects? He was aware of that before he got Spider-Blood, now he can't even do multiplication tables anymore.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:11
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Synthbuttrange posted:
In some nutty way, I guess I win! -Bruce Banner minutes after receiving Spider-Man blood.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:34
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Samuringa posted:Almost all the things cited in this thread happened in Volume 1. Ultimates was garbage from the start(Except Spider-man). Nah.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:49
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I think there is a place for the Ultimates reading of superheroes as jingoistic thugs, so long there remains a place for the real Captain America who is the worlds most decent human being. I liked the Ultimate universe more than enough to get real disappointed with how it turned out. Though I would hesitate to read into that jingoism as actual critique, the early 2000s were kind of an awful time, and media from that period really should be taken at face value a lot of the time. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 16:39
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The Ultimates are a very “Bush-era” type of story, for better or worse (mostly for worse). It’s been years since I’ve read it, and I’m honestly kind of ambivalent on ever going back to it, but I remember enjoying it in the same way I enjoyed 24 back in the day.
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Feb 15, 2018 17:13
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remusclaw posted:I think there is a place for the Ultimates reading of superheroes as jingoistic thugs, so long there remains a place for the real Captain America who is the worlds most decent human being. I liked the Ultimate universe more than enough to get real disappointed with how it turned out. There's a lot of stuff in the first Ultimates about the team being a product of the military-industrial complex (like, not subtext, but explicitly Thor disgustedly saying it's a MIC project and that it will only be a matter of time before "fighting supervillains" becomes "securing oil reserves and bringing democracy to the Middle East"). Then in Ultimates 2 you get the squad of Giant-Men, along with Cap himself, being used as soldiers in the Iraq War. Plus Cap being rolled out in front of President Bush in a big publicity parade and Nick Fury having meetings with Dick Cheney. It is often pretty sympathetic to the characters, but I think that's part of texturing them out and giving them depth. Like, Ultimate Cap isn't a slavering monster, and to a degree the book wants you to root for him, but I don't think it wants you to think of him as a true hero. Same deal with characters like Banner or Hank Pym, where their Ultimate versions are real monsters but still have scenes where they're imbued with pathos and humanity.
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Feb 15, 2018 17:25
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Android Blues posted:imo Ultimates 1 is excellent, Ultimates 2 is good with flaws, and then Ultimates 3 is unreadable Jeph Loeb nonsense. Keep in mind Ultimates 1 came out in 2002, way before the, "grittier take on a four-colour superhero universe," thing was an overplayed trope. Maybe not an overplayed trope but Ultimates was basically What If the Avengers were Stormwatch/The Authority, which were years old at that point.
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Feb 15, 2018 17:41
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And, to be fair, Mark Millar licks goats.
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Feb 15, 2018 17:42
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Android Blues posted:There's a lot of stuff in the first Ultimates about the team being a product of the military-industrial complex (like, not subtext, but explicitly Thor disgustedly saying it's a MIC project and that it will only be a matter of time before "fighting supervillains" becomes "securing oil reserves and bringing democracy to the Middle East"). Then in Ultimates 2 you get the squad of Giant-Men, along with Cap himself, being used as soldiers in the Iraq War. Plus Cap being rolled out in front of President Bush in a big publicity parade and Nick Fury having meetings with Dick Cheney. Some amount of that got carried over into the MCU also.
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Feb 15, 2018 17:49
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Push El Burrito posted:And, to be fair, Mark Millar licks goats. Oddly prescient of Bloodstone to be covering one of the stars there given how Brexit would turn out.
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Feb 15, 2018 17:59
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Android Blues posted:There's a lot of stuff in the first Ultimates about the team being a product of the military-industrial complex (like, not subtext, but explicitly Thor disgustedly saying it's a MIC project and that it will only be a matter of time before "fighting supervillains" becomes "securing oil reserves and bringing democracy to the Middle East"). Then in Ultimates 2 you get the squad of Giant-Men, along with Cap himself, being used as soldiers in the Iraq War. Plus Cap being rolled out in front of President Bush in a big publicity parade and Nick Fury having meetings with Dick Cheney. I thought the stuff with Wasp and Cap's relationship was really good.
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Feb 15, 2018 19:25
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ConfusedUs posted:Some amount of that got carried over into the MCU also. Of course, the MCU took the best part of the Ultimates: Samuel L. Jackson as Fury.
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Feb 15, 2018 19:42
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Push El Burrito posted:And, to be fair, Mark Millar licks goats. It's a currency symbol, so it stands for Capitalism, which is basically synonymous to America, so yes.
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Feb 15, 2018 19:46
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remusclaw posted:I think there is a place for the Ultimates reading of superheroes as jingoistic thugs, so long there remains a place for the real Captain America who is the worlds most decent human being. I liked the Ultimate universe more than enough to get real disappointed with how it turned out. I usually dislike when one comic creator quite clearly is taking a shot at another, or at least some story they told (like Frank Tieri's awful "answer" to Garth Ennis' Punisher/Wolverine fight) but I really loved that issue of (regular Marvel) Captain America that came out shortly after "DO YOU THINK THIS A STANDS FOR FRANCE!?!" story. It features Cap musing about France in the light of the growing anti-French sentiment in America after the Iraq Invasion, and thinking about the French Resistance fighters he fought alongside in World War II, and how they had continued fighting even after their Government surrendered, long after all hope was gone and it seemed impossible that Germany could ever be defeated. That's the kind of Cap I like 
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Feb 15, 2018 22:20
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The Question IRL posted:Oddly prescient of Bloodstone to be covering one of the stars there given how Brexit would turn out. Fun fact: the stars don't actually stand for anything. There's no symbolism in there being 12 of then, it just looked nice.
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Feb 15, 2018 22:45
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 Oh no peter doesn’t understand
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Feb 16, 2018 01:11
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Bruce's stubble will soon cover his entire face.
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Feb 16, 2018 01:15
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"I've always liked to think I don't actually have anything in common with Spider-Man."
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Feb 16, 2018 01:46
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Push El Burrito posted:Bruce's stubble will soon cover his entire face. He's turning into Cousin It.
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Feb 16, 2018 03:24
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I can't believe how stupid and nonchalant he is about it even beyond the fact that his blood will eventually replace Peter's. Yes, I have highly irradiated blood in my veins, the effects of which have been shown to be incredibly toxic in other permutations of this universe (if you want to take that awful comic where MJ got cancer as canon). I have no worries about this having effects on me. I apparently believe I will always be irradiated for the rest of my life and cannot conceive that this could have dangerous effects on me now that I'm effectively a civilian NEXT: A slow painful death due to a lethal dose of radioactivity!
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Feb 16, 2018 08:45
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And considering superhero logic, who knows what batshit effects gamma blood+radioactive spider blood would have, waiting to happen at the least convenient time. Maybe getting hit by bricks turns him into the Hulk now. Maybe now he'll have spidersense, but it only warns him when purple pants are nearby. Or maybe his entire body will slowly be covered with beard stubble. The possibilities are endless!
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Feb 16, 2018 08:59
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Cat Mattress posted:"I've always liked to think I don't actually have anything in common with Spider-Man." That's not even subtext... that's just text
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Feb 16, 2018 09:30
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Push El Burrito posted:Bruce's stubble will soon cover his entire face. The proportional fur of a spider.
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Feb 16, 2018 16:37
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maybe it will be like a tarantula and he'll be able to fire the stubble as a defense mechanism.
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Feb 16, 2018 16:40
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Cat Mattress posted:"I've always liked to think I don't actually have anything in common with Spider-Man." i'd like to think that too, but sadly i cannot.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:07
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I love that this whole blood sharing storyline has completely ignored one of the most famous, and arguably best Spider-Man stories of all time. The whole Master Planner Saga / If This Be My Destiny storyline was kicked off because Peter donated blood to Aunt May and the radiation in his blood began to kill her. It was a Stan Lee story!
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Feb 16, 2018 18:02
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Spider blood. Spider blood. Radioactive spider blood.
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Feb 16, 2018 18:45
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