|
boho posted:So, uh, any reason not to just keep playing Civ4/FFH2? 6 is a higher number than 4
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 16:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 12:23 |
|
|
I like loyalty. Sometimes you need a mechanic that isn't used, but exists as a threat to be used. There had to be a way to punish for plopping down a city inside of another's territory. Now you just don't do that because of loyalty. So even though loyalty actually mattering is uncommon, it's doing it's job by changing play style to accommodate for its existence.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 16:28
|
|
|
boho posted:So, uh, any reason not to just keep playing Civ4/FFH2? If you're like me and have over 1k hours in Civ 4 and are ready to try something a little different. Civ 6 is fun in its own way. Also despite complaints about modding a few pages back I find Civ 6 a lot easier to mod than the older Civ games. Such that I've actually written my own mods this time. MarquiseMindfang posted:Or don't, and raze the place when it rebels in 8 turns or so. Then settle it properly and get the era points for forward settling people. THEN place a governor. I think next time I play a map like Inland sea where the AI likes to settle lots and lots of cities not on fresh water I'm going to try to do that. It's just a bit of pain to wait for the flip because my premeditated, offensive wars are often effectively over in 10 turns or less, special circumstances like a naval invasion aside.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 16:32
|
|
|
The Human Crouton posted:I like loyalty. Sometimes you need a mechanic that isn't used, but exists as a threat to be used. There had to be a way to punish for plopping down a city inside of another's territory.  It would really suck if loyalty was something you had to constantly keep an eye on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 16:35
|
|
|
When you take a giant enemy city you shouldn't get a huge loyalty boost. If I take Washington it's still full of angry Americans, it shouldn't exert Greek loyalty onto Boston and Chicago. There should be a phase-in period of resistance before full cultural adoption, so it still exerts American loyalty until you quiet the resistance and start building there. It definitely shouldn't just suddenly exert Greek loyalty using all of those other citizens. edit: Master of Orion 2 did this well, where citizens were an actual kind of Alien race, and if you conquered a planet you would assimilate citizens at certain rates while the rest basically became ineffective forced labor until they flipped over. If you had a hive-mind type government it would take a long time to assimilate, but a democracy was able to assimilate citizens much faster. Tom Tucker fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Feb 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 16:48
|
|
|
boho posted:So, uh, any reason not to just keep playing Civ4/FFH2? I like hexes  but unfortunately it's impossible to recreate FFH because of lack of access to the DLLs and the lack of python/lua hooks into the game loop.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
Taear posted:I think I hate the loyalty mechanic. It never gains me anything and makes me worried about founding cities too near to the other civs. It kinda promotes rushing your settlers out really fast and I don't enjoy playing that way. I love the loyalty mechanic. Combined with the barbarian changes loyalty gives you some room to develop in multiplayer whereas before the game was all about forward settling your opponent early and producing a million units.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 17:27
|
|
|
For some reason ever since the DLC the AI doesn't seem to prioritize walls. They used to get walls up pretty quickly which stifled really expansion, but now I'm not seeing them get walls up until like turn 100, plenty of time for me to archer rush one or two civs down before turtling.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 17:32
|
|
|
Ha, Cyrus' empire is falling apart because he constantly at war with Greece and had one of his cities rebel near my border. I stole it from him without any issue and now have a supply of horses. Another city near it is having loyalty issues as well. War without actually going to war...
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 21:34
|
|
|
Rirse posted:Ha, Cyrus' empire is falling apart because he constantly at war with Greece and had one of his cities rebel near my border. I stole it from him without any issue and now have a supply of horses. Another city near it is having loyalty issues as well. War without actually going to war... That sounds pretty historically accurate, other than it happening during Cyrus's reign rather than after it. The post-Darius Achaemenid rulers kind of sucked and a lot of their border territories became independent while they engaged in foreverwar with Greece.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 21:39
|
|
|
Magil Zeal posted:And I suspect it actually would be hard, and frankly I think contextual AI messages would be more trouble than they are worth. There are far more important concerns when it comes to the AI. These situations strike me as more amusing as anything else. I'm honestly surprise people find it "frustrating". Just click "ignore this request" and move on (unless you actually are going to move away, then enjoy the free diplo bonus). I dunno. Like, I assume close borders just checks for your cities being within X of each other, so you know which two they are. Just check for the most recent founding/change of ownership, and if it was the AI then they can either not scream at you about it or play the imagined smug "I'm moving in, suck it" message. The Human Crouton posted:They need to get rid of the "troops too close to my border" bullshit. It's there to make the AI look like it's smart and on top of things by calling you out on your cunning plan, but it's really just annoying and doesn't do anything except for make the AI look and act stupider. When I was dealing with a city state emergency (with the aforementioned jungle road) I had to send my army past Spain's final city. They got scared about all these troops, of course, but I assured them I was just moving by. So I go off, fight Korea and win the Emergency, and then sent my army home. Spain pops up again to scream that I have broken my promise and now we are enemies  But again, the solution would seem to be just to take this army which is already on the border of a now-hostile Civ that I massively out-power, and just wipe them out 
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 21:58
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:That sounds pretty historically accurate, other than it happening during Cyrus's reign rather than after it. The post-Darius Achaemenid rulers kind of sucked and a lot of their border territories became independent while they engaged in foreverwar with Greece. Of course they hated me stealing their city and declared war with randomly Austrilia, who not even on the same continent as us so he a non factor. Greece is loving having me as a ally now so she very happy now. Good thing I kept a lot of my troops I used to steal his rebellion city so I quickly took the next city away.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2018 22:15
|
|
|
I'm enjoying the expansion with a few minor mods - Deity AI was killing every single city state before classic era so had to make them start with pre-built walls, which did wonders for their lifespan. The Era system has really done a lot to keep engagement up at every turn, always having to worry about finding enough points to reach Normal/Golden age. What I would really like is to have a list of all the available Historic Moments since some are pretty obscure and hard to remember. I did find a sort-of exploit: you get points for being the first suzerain of a city state, meaning that if you get at least one envoy in a few different city states (first meeting, quests or w/e) you can recruit the Diplomat and just move her around, claiming suzerainity for one turn then re-assigning her to the next for 2 points every 5 turn. Obviously only works once and needs to be early on before AI's have enough envoys to establish suzerainity themselves.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 03:42
|
|
|
Darkrenown posted:When I was dealing with a city state emergency (with the aforementioned jungle road) I had to send my army past Spain's final city. They got scared about all these troops, of course, but I assured them I was just moving by. So I go off, fight Korea and win the Emergency, and then sent my army home. Spain pops up again to scream that I have broken my promise and now we are enemies yeah i recommend never making a promise on this since there's absolutely no indication - or rhyme or reason - to what the ai considers to be troops on the border. e: and it's also real easy to just plain forget, as you noticed
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 04:54
|
|
|
Pewdiepie posted:I love the loyalty mechanic. Combined with the barbarian changes loyalty gives you some room to develop in multiplayer whereas before the game was all about forward settling your opponent early and producing a million units. I like that if they settle a tiny crap city in your territory it changes to "free" so I can destroy it without much bother. But I don't like looking at the +60 to loyalty so I can't settle near the AI to block them off.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 10:32
|
|
|
How in making GBS threads christ do I build a Nubian Pyramid? I've researched masonry, I've got a builder on a desert tile (I've also tried floodplains) and I can't build the fucker.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 11:45
|
|
|
Taear posted:I like that if they settle a tiny crap city in your territory it changes to "free" so I can destroy it without much bother. I think it's shifted the balance nicely away from all aggression all the time. I'd like a few policy cards that are about more defensive loyalty projection though, the -2 from Reyna doesn't much cut it. Maybe something like the per-tile falloff in loyalty being reduced, but loyalty pressure from other civs being doubled in return. So 10 tiles out you still have 33% projection of your loyalty to keep an open space outside your big cities' borders idiot-free for later expansion, but if you try and forward settle in return, your cities will fall even with governors. Call it the No Man's Land policy or something, I dunno. You can forward settle at an alright rate if you plop down near some choppable food and drop Magnus in there to boost your population quickly enough to fend off opposing pressure. You're not going to be able to sit your rear end down on -20 spaces as such, but it's alright up to about -14. It would be nice if internal trade routes originating in a city increased its loyalty to the empire.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 14:38
|
|
|
MarquiseMindfang posted:It would be nice if internal trade routes originating in a city increased its loyalty to the empire. Literally one of the Dutch unique abilities.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 15:30
|
|
|
MarquiseMindfang posted:You can forward settle at an alright rate if you plop down near some choppable food and drop Magnus in there to boost your population quickly enough to fend off opposing pressure. You're not going to be able to sit your rear end down on -20 spaces as such, but it's alright up to about -14. It would be nice if internal trade routes originating in a city increased its loyalty to the empire. I know it's not the "accepted" way to play but I always put my cities really far away from one another because I don't like it looking busy. I know the game encourages being close now, but I don't like it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 16:06
|
|
|
I try to place my cities 6 tiles apart, so there's as little tile overlap as possible, but I can still get continuous borders in a reasonable time frame. I know it's suboptimal, but what if every single one of my cities were to grow to size 30??
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 16:17
|
|
|
Majumbo posted:Literally one of the Dutch unique abilities. Just give her extra, then. It should be a core mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 17:29
|
|
|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:I try to place my cities 6 tiles apart, so there's as little tile overlap as possible, but I can still get continuous borders in a reasonable time frame. I know it's suboptimal, but what if every single one of my cities were to grow to size 30?? It took a lot of effort to move me off of the Civ5 "Food is everything" mantra. Most cities tend to top out at 15-20, and they only hit that in the super late game, barring some exceptions for certain leaders with +housing stuff. It means Placing cities closer is no longer a loss in productivity in the mid and late game. It's actually an increase in efficiency as you can affect more cities with the AoEs from certain buildings as well as weaving districts from several cities together for higher adjacency numbers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
Which districts should I be building in every city and which districts should I be building to include multiple cities in range?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 18:08
|
|
|
Dietrich posted:Which districts should I be building in every city and which districts should I be building to include multiple cities in range? Just start in an easy difficulty and see for yourself imo, this game has plenty of room to explore. The current fastest victory was done by rushing 2 warriors and THREE theatre districts, something it has never been hinted around here. As for me, I tend to try to destroy my closest neighbor with a military district. Then it can be science on the capital, harbor/economic on the rest, complete with science afterwards and enternainment in the capital, full industry after that. turboraton fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Feb 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 18:12
|
|
|
Just a heads up for those who don't already own it; Civ 4 Complete is free for Twitch prime members until the 21st
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 18:22
|
|
|
Cynic Jester posted:It took a lot of effort to move me off of the Civ5 "Food is everything" mantra. Most cities tend to top out at 15-20, and they only hit that in the super late game, barring some exceptions for certain leaders with +housing stuff. It means Placing cities closer is no longer a loss in productivity in the mid and late game. It's actually an increase in efficiency as you can affect more cities with the AoEs from certain buildings as well as weaving districts from several cities together for higher adjacency numbers. Since the expac I actually only let the city grow "organically" until about 9-10, and then just chop my way up to 16+, basically only using farms to sustain the current pop level instead of grow. I get to have roughly 16 pop cities when everyone else is sitting at about half that. That's a lot more people up front working mines. By endgame every city in my empire tops out at 23-24 pop as they expand into rings 4 and 5 and I get new things to chop. Capital in the last game was in a bunch of rainforest and ended up size 27. Magnus is love, Magnus is life. Magnus is probably going to get nerfed because he's incredible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 20:46
|
|
|
I've updated my Wondrous Wonders mod to Rise and Fall. I was somewhat unimpressed with the original Statue of Liberty bonus, so I gave my own take on it, among other things. I left some of the Wonders alone though, I think Firaxis did a better job of making some of the Wonders more desirable this time around. They've been getting better about it, at least.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 00:05
|
|
|
Magil Zeal posted:I've updated my Wondrous Wonders mod to Rise and Fall. I was somewhat unimpressed with the original Statue of Liberty bonus, so I gave my own take on it, among other things. I left some of the Wonders alone though, I think Firaxis did a better job of making some of the Wonders more desirable this time around. They've been getting better about it, at least. The new ones seem niche, but super-good if you're in that niche. I'm now spending time seeing if I can optimize Temple of Artemis with each start, because +1 Amenity from every plantation, farm, and camp in a 4-tile radius feels like it just solves Amenities until the end game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 00:35
|
|
|
skeleton warrior posted:The new ones seem niche, but super-good if you're in that niche. I'm now spending time seeing if I can optimize Temple of Artemis with each start, because +1 Amenity from every plantation, farm, and camp in a 4-tile radius feels like it just solves Amenities until the end game. I did appreciate how I built Kilwa Kisiwani in a game and it encouraged me into a Protectorate War to protect one of my cultural city-state so I wouldn't lose +15% Culture in all cities.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 03:40
|
|
|
Finally got rid of the rebellion issue that been plaguing the city I stole from Persia when they attacked me. Hate to constantly use the Bread policy to keep them stable while I am stuck in a dark age, but at least the city is starting to grow enough to be rid of the Persian influence. And somehow Greece is STILL at war with Persia. They been at war with them since maybe the 20th turn in the game and gun powder is now showing up in my game. On the bright side, due to the fact we both hate Persia, Greece has made a alliance with me in the game which is constantly getting refreshed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 03:54
|
|
|
Magil Zeal posted:I've updated my Wondrous Wonders mod to Rise and Fall. I was somewhat unimpressed with the original Statue of Liberty bonus, so I gave my own take on it, among other things. I left some of the Wonders alone though, I think Firaxis did a better job of making some of the Wonders more desirable this time around. They've been getting better about it, at least. drat, a positive poster, a good player and a good modder? Grats man, I really loved your Expanded Economy mod, hope you can update it soon with RnF.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 04:01
|
|
|
god the Lavra is silly. i've got like three times as many writers as i can fit, a billion faith to purchase units with, and infinite culture from choral music
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 06:05
|
|
|
So I assume I can also post about other Civ games here? Because I'm playing Rising Tide, and I like it? but also it's super baffling. I'm 150 turns in and probably playing super un optimally, which should theoretically be screwing me over as I'm playing on Soyuz because I heard it's a tad easy. Yet... I've made 4 Wonders so far, with nobody else attempting to construct a single one on a 8 AI map. The two Science groups are constantly praising me for my Science rate, even though I've got nothing going into Science outside of me building the occasional + Science building. I've got 3 established cities with fairly high Production, and just started 2 more Outposts. Half the AI still only have 2 cities, outside of Humata, who has like 20 Outposts mysteriously. I've got a city next to three Titanium Deposits, which I've built as full Production. It should looking at it's tiles be getting +20 Production. Plus I have a trade route to my Production Settlement Neighbor to help bring it to +26ish. Instead it shows as Production 3. It's faster then my other city, but just barely. I have workers on the tiles, so I'm just super baffled by what's happening here. I'm trying to buddy up to Humata because I want those Trade Agreements. And that largely works. Guy loves my focus on Science ( what ), and keeps congratulating me on how far away my cities are from his. But he also has a military popup that says "Who needs armies! Not colonists on a dangerous world, that's for sure." which I would assume means he wants me to have less armies? But I only have 2 units of Marines. Does he actually want me to have more units and is making fun of me or..... I need his loving Trade Route buff. I went all in on Trade Routes because I have 3 Settlements near me, and with the Trade Buffs I'm making something like +50 Energy, and +20 Science/Food/Production/Culture per turn off of them. Is Kavitha basically supposed to be Ghandi 2? Because christ, she immediately took all the warmongering traits, and is constantly yelling at me about how I'm weak and pathetic for not having enough troops, and for my troops not having enough experience. She's still on Soldiers, yet I'm about to hit t3 Purity dudes ( also like the prerelease stuff made it sound like Harmony would be funloving hippies, Supremacy would be crazy robo people, and Purity would be neonazis, but uh those victory conditions make it seem like only Purity/Contact are probably good for humanity? ), but my guys just never fight anything, so they are all low experience. Maybe I should build some boats and go gently caress up all the NEVERENDING GODDAMN SEA ALIENS around me, because there are barely any land aliens. I've yet to see a single war in those 150 turns. Nobody seems to be a warmonger. Kavitha is a dick and keeps cancelling agreements, but she's not overtly hostile ( she also again only has two cities so ??? ). Like I genuinely am liking this game quite a bit. I'm just curious if these are common things. Rookersh fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Feb 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 16:21
|
|
|
I played two games of Beyond Earth, and I felt that it was painfully obvious (to me, imo!) that they'd just grabbed the Civ5 AI and dropped it in with as close to zero adjustments as possible. The poor opponents have no goddamn idea how to to basic 4X infrastructure/snowball stuff, absolutely NEVER specialize in any of the 3 thematic traits (I forget their names now), and I suspect it had something to do with not being able to navigate the tech web. Like, in Civ5, you could pick a random tech every time you where prompted, and still chug along through the ages fair enough. But the AI in BE just wallows along in the stone ages for aeons. BE was all eye candy and marketing about ideaologies. It's barely even a game however, as the AI has no goddamn idea how to play with board & rules it has been presented with.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 16:35
|
|
|
BE is the most pathetic game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 16:49
|
|
|
Whoah, after the last patch the AI is actually a lot better at taking cities. I've lost my last two (emperor level) games for AI attacking my empire with many corps and armies. They really concentrate forces to one city a time, and bombard and shoot it to low health and then storm it and aren't as afraid of casualties anymore. They don't care about walls either like it was before. First I was so shocked that I played the game to the very end, looking as my cities were taken one by one, even my last colony on an island was taken by ironclads. Latest game I didn't finish but it was clear as the war of attrition had swinged to Spanish Empire's favor and artillery corps were pulverizing my cities.. Also, I love how there's now full World Wars! All alliances create automatic Defensive pacts, so if two empires launch a joint war against another, their Allies join in the slaughter.. I loved Civ 4 and 5 too but at the moment I don't miss them at all. P.S. Someone wrote that the patch affects only Rise&Fall AI and not vanilla Civ 6, don't know about this..
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 19:00
|
|
|
Harmonia posted:Whoah, after the last patch the AI is actually a lot better at taking cities. I'd love it if you could repeat the test I did earlier in the thread.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
I actually lost a game due to an AI declaring and seizing two of my cities around turn 20 on Immortal & Online speed. Was doing a MP game with a friend vs four AIs. Aztec took one with Eagle Warriors, and the other with a Galley. I just let the Galley do its thing at that point, I was too amazed to see it happen in the first place. No walls, as a note so the theory still is up in the air. I may do a few test games sometime for the heck of it but I am enjoying them more already as is. Also I'm finding a ton of Armies and Corps, upgraded units, etc. Same with City States / Free Cities. The AI is definitely more aware of units and how to make the more deadly it appears. onesixtwo fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Feb 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 19:06
|
|
|
turboraton posted:drat, a positive poster, a good player and a good modder? Grats man, I really loved your Expanded Economy mod, hope you can update it soon with RnF. Expanded Economy is a while off due to its scale, that was sort of an experiment/pet project of mine to determine just how far I could push Civ modding. Could I really move the economy back onto the land? And I really like the concept of mutually exclusive buildings and wanted more of them. But thanks for the compliments. I am in the short-term planning on releasing components of EE as separate mods.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 19:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 12:23 |
|
|
So I just lost the game within the first 10 turns because my capital flipped to the French. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 20:48
|
|
